Topaz DeNoise

olenl · 06-07-2010, 10:01 PM

what is banding? tried to google it but only found this forum... are there any before/after image examples?

StarDust · 06-07-2010, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by robgo2

The K10D has severe banding problems. I highly recommend that you get Dfine as well as TDN4, if you plan on shooting above ISO 400.

Rob

Thanks, I'll check it out!

Originally posted by olenl

what is banding? tried to google it but only found this forum... are there any before/after image examples?

Banding noise is when you get soft (or hard) lines on the images. These are most often vertical if I remember correctly (landscape orientation).

jlaubza · 06-08-2010, 10:50 AM

Banding is the presence of vertical fuzzy stripes (landscape orientation) of colour noise on an image - they show up as lighter areas of colour aberration on an image. In other words, banding is a form of chromatic aberration caused by the sensor design.

It is noticeable on the K10d images from iso400 upwards on shots that are taken in dark conditions and then brightened up in software - they show up in the dark areas and ruin what could be atmospheric shots.

It is a weakness of the K10 d sensor that was not publicised enough when the camera first hit the market and is one of the reasons not to 'upgrade' to a second hand k10d if you have an earlier model pentax.

Banding is very difficult to remove with denoising software but the latest version of Lightroom does a good job when you use the chromatic aberration denoising function in it.

Christopher M.W.T · 06-08-2010, 11:34 AM

I just downloaded me a copy and been playing with it, very impressed actually.

I had a star trail photo i shot which had a lot of noise and it really cleaned it up.

It's a keeper along with Noise Ninja methinks.

robgo2 · 06-08-2010, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by olenl

what is banding? tried to google it but only found this forum... are there any before/after image examples?

Banding, as others have explained, is a form of pattern noise. On the K10D, it is vertical in orientation and often very severe. On the K-7, it is horizontal and usually mild, but noticeable at ISO 3200. Dfine has a de-banding function that works very well. But, Topaz DeNoise 4 is overall a more effective NR tool. Many people are really wild about the NR capabilities of the latest ACR. True, it is an improvement of the previous version of ACR but not in the same league as TDN4.

Rob

philbaum · 06-08-2010, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by robgo2

Many people are really wild about the NR capabilities of the latest ACR. True, it is an improvement of the previous version of ACR but not in the same league as TDN4.

Rob

There was a thread on dpreview that LR3 is better on chroma noise than TDN4 but TDN4 was better on lumi noise than LR. I had a free upgrade to TDN4, but for 90% of my photos, LR's speed of use is going to mean that i'll use it most of the time.

Another thing i found incidentally with LR, is that the lumi noise reduction does a very nice job of reducing facial wrinkles :-) If folks don't use lightroom for other reasons, than TDN4 is probably the way to go.

Phil

robgo2 · 06-08-2010, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

There was a thread on dpreview that LR3 is better on chroma noise than TDN4 but TDN4 was better on lumi noise than LR. I had a free upgrade to TDN4, but for 90% of my photos, LR's speed of use is going to mean that i'll use it most of the time.

Another thing i found incidentally with LR, is that the lumi noise reduction does a very nice job of reducing facial wrinkles :-) If folks don't use lightroom for other reasons, than TDN4 is probably the way to go.

Phil

The latest upgrade of TDN (4.1) has added a color noise slider, so I think that deficiency has been corrected. I still prefer to remove chroma noise in the RAW stage, only I use Capture One as my RAW converter.

You may find the lumi NR in LR to be useful for reducing facial wrinkles, but this is evidence of its removing fine detail. So, although in this particular case it is of benefit, detail removal is not what one usually wants with NR.

Luminous Landscape has a fresh review of TDN4 and found it to be superior to other programs, including LR. No doubt, LR3 is much improved over 2.7, and for those who don't want to bother with another program, it is a very decent tool.

Topaz Labs DeNoise 4.1 Review

Rob

Brjlk · 06-09-2010, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by olenl

By the way, does anyone know any other free (or low priced) software that can use PS plugins and (preferably) also has automation? Irfanview was the first thing I found to try TDN4, it's not because I already used it... it has very poor user interface for an image viewer.

Try this
Download Free Plugins for Adobe Photoshop

Very good, very fast.

John

jboyde · 06-09-2010, 09:44 PM

The NR in Lightroom 3 is a definite keeper and that'll probably be my go-to. But I wonder tho if that means I should turn the Hi ISO NR off on the cameras so that I'll do all of my NR in post when I hit ISO 1000+. I figured I'd get the fullest amount of detail to work with....or will the added noise be too much of a detriment.

Challenge accepted!!!! LOL!

StarDust · 06-10-2010, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by jboyde

The NR in Lightroom 3 is a definite keeper and that'll probably be my go-to. But I wonder tho if that means I should turn the Hi ISO NR off on the cameras so that I'll do all of my NR in post when I hit ISO 1000+. I figured I'd get the fullest amount of detail to work with....or will the added noise be too much of a detriment.

Challenge accepted!!!! LOL!

I've also been wondering about internal NR but I haven't looked into it that much. Some input would be welcome on whether one should keep it on or turn it off and rely completely on NR software on the computer.
Anyone willing to do a test on this perhaps?

jgredline · 06-11-2010, 11:54 AM

I purchased Topaz D4.1 and Pentax should include a copy of TD4 with every K-7. It really works well.

My biggest complaint is that is opens to 200%. Does anyone know how to tweak this so it opens at say 100%?

robgo2 · 06-11-2010, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

I purchased Topaz D4.1 and Pentax should include a copy of TD4 with every K-7. It really works well.

My biggest complaint is that is opens to 200%. Does anyone know how to tweak this so it opens at say 100%?

I find that annoying too, but I have not figured out how to change that default.

As for Pentax including TDN4 with every K-7, don't hold your breath. To do so would be tantamount to admitting that their camera has an especially bad problem with noise.

Rob

JohnBee · 06-11-2010, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by robgo2

I find that annoying too, but I have not figured out how to change that default.

As for Pentax including TDN4 with every K-7, don't hold your breath. To do so would be tantamount to admitting that their camera has an especially bad problem with noise.

Rob

Under Menu > Preferences, you'll find a relative / absolute setting. The absolute will invoke TDN to start using the last settings you use with your image. So if you choose 1:1 in your last session, it should load with 1:1 again(knock on wood).

Technical, TDN is bordering on miraculous with respects to it's NR capabilities.
The more I use it, the more unbelievable it becomes...

jgredline · 06-12-2010, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by JohnBee

Under Menu > Preferences, you'll find a relative / absolute setting. The absolute will invoke TDN to start using the last settings you use with your image. So if you choose 1:1 in your last session, it should load with 1:1 again(knock on wood).

Technical, TDN is bordering on miraculous with respects to it's NR capabilities.
The more I use it, the more unbelievable it becomes...

Thanks John. Tried it and set it to absolute and still opens to 200%.
Gosh this Topaz deal works great, but they need to fix that 200% deal.

JohnBee · 06-12-2010, 08:05 PM

Okay thanks for clarifying that(I was hopefull

).
TBH. I usually hit my zero preset before the plugin even starts and so manouvering is quite painless afterward.

As for the app, it is a true technical wonder... but wow... it sure needs some interface improvements. I have a little wishlist that I'v compiled for the Topaz forum. But I haven't gotten around to posting it yet. Perhaps we should put something togegether as a community(with a little more punch). I'm sure the developers would love to know that there product's getting mass attention.

06-08-2010, 10:50 AM	#18
jlaubza Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: south africa, johannesburg Photos: Gallery Posts: 228	Banding on the K10d and Lightroom 3 Banding is the presence of vertical fuzzy stripes (landscape orientation) of colour noise on an image - they show up as lighter areas of colour aberration on an image. In other words, banding is a form of chromatic aberration caused by the sensor design. It is noticeable on the K10d images from iso400 upwards on shots that are taken in dark conditions and then brightened up in software - they show up in the dark areas and ruin what could be atmospheric shots. It is a weakness of the K10 d sensor that was not publicised enough when the camera first hit the market and is one of the reasons not to 'upgrade' to a second hand k10d if you have an earlier model pentax. Banding is very difficult to remove with denoising software but the latest version of Lightroom does a good job when you use the chromatic aberration denoising function in it.

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06-07-2010, 10:01 PM	#16
olenl Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 113	what is banding? tried to google it but only found this forum... are there any before/after image examples?

06-07-2010, 11:14 PM	#17
StarDust Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 400	Originally posted by robgo2 The K10D has severe banding problems. I highly recommend that you get Dfine as well as TDN4, if you plan on shooting above ISO 400. Rob Thanks, I'll check it out! Originally posted by olenl what is banding? tried to google it but only found this forum... are there any before/after image examples? Banding noise is when you get soft (or hard) lines on the images. These are most often vertical if I remember correctly (landscape orientation).

06-08-2010, 11:34 AM	#19
Christopher M.W.T Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,689	I just downloaded me a copy and been playing with it, very impressed actually. I had a star trail photo i shot which had a lot of noise and it really cleaned it up. It's a keeper along with Noise Ninja methinks.

06-08-2010, 12:29 PM	#20
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by olenl what is banding? tried to google it but only found this forum... are there any before/after image examples? Banding, as others have explained, is a form of pattern noise. On the K10D, it is vertical in orientation and often very severe. On the K-7, it is horizontal and usually mild, but noticeable at ISO 3200. Dfine has a de-banding function that works very well. But, Topaz DeNoise 4 is overall a more effective NR tool. Many people are really wild about the NR capabilities of the latest ACR. True, it is an improvement of the previous version of ACR but not in the same league as TDN4. Rob

06-08-2010, 12:40 PM	#21
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by robgo2 Many people are really wild about the NR capabilities of the latest ACR. True, it is an improvement of the previous version of ACR but not in the same league as TDN4. Rob There was a thread on dpreview that LR3 is better on chroma noise than TDN4 but TDN4 was better on lumi noise than LR. I had a free upgrade to TDN4, but for 90% of my photos, LR's speed of use is going to mean that i'll use it most of the time. Another thing i found incidentally with LR, is that the lumi noise reduction does a very nice job of reducing facial wrinkles :-) If folks don't use lightroom for other reasons, than TDN4 is probably the way to go. Phil

06-08-2010, 05:01 PM	#22
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by philbaum There was a thread on dpreview that LR3 is better on chroma noise than TDN4 but TDN4 was better on lumi noise than LR. I had a free upgrade to TDN4, but for 90% of my photos, LR's speed of use is going to mean that i'll use it most of the time. Another thing i found incidentally with LR, is that the lumi noise reduction does a very nice job of reducing facial wrinkles :-) If folks don't use lightroom for other reasons, than TDN4 is probably the way to go. Phil The latest upgrade of TDN (4.1) has added a color noise slider, so I think that deficiency has been corrected. I still prefer to remove chroma noise in the RAW stage, only I use Capture One as my RAW converter. You may find the lumi NR in LR to be useful for reducing facial wrinkles, but this is evidence of its removing fine detail. So, although in this particular case it is of benefit, detail removal is not what one usually wants with NR. Luminous Landscape has a fresh review of TDN4 and found it to be superior to other programs, including LR. No doubt, LR3 is much improved over 2.7, and for those who don't want to bother with another program, it is a very decent tool. Topaz Labs DeNoise 4.1 Review Rob

06-09-2010, 03:09 PM	#23
Brjlk New Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3	Originally posted by olenl By the way, does anyone know any other free (or low priced) software that can use PS plugins and (preferably) also has automation? Irfanview was the first thing I found to try TDN4, it's not because I already used it... it has very poor user interface for an image viewer. Try this Download Free Plugins for Adobe Photoshop Very good, very fast. John

06-09-2010, 09:44 PM	#24
jboyde Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 328	The NR in Lightroom 3 is a definite keeper and that'll probably be my go-to. But I wonder tho if that means I should turn the Hi ISO NR off on the cameras so that I'll do all of my NR in post when I hit ISO 1000+. I figured I'd get the fullest amount of detail to work with....or will the added noise be too much of a detriment. Challenge accepted!!!! LOL!

06-10-2010, 09:29 AM	#25
StarDust Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 400	Originally posted by jboyde The NR in Lightroom 3 is a definite keeper and that'll probably be my go-to. But I wonder tho if that means I should turn the Hi ISO NR off on the cameras so that I'll do all of my NR in post when I hit ISO 1000+. I figured I'd get the fullest amount of detail to work with....or will the added noise be too much of a detriment. Challenge accepted!!!! LOL! I've also been wondering about internal NR but I haven't looked into it that much. Some input would be welcome on whether one should keep it on or turn it off and rely completely on NR software on the computer. Anyone willing to do a test on this perhaps?

06-11-2010, 11:54 AM	#26
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	I purchased Topaz D4.1 and Pentax should include a copy of TD4 with every K-7. It really works well. My biggest complaint is that is opens to 200%. Does anyone know how to tweak this so it opens at say 100%?

06-11-2010, 02:07 PM	#27
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by jgredline I purchased Topaz D4.1 and Pentax should include a copy of TD4 with every K-7. It really works well. My biggest complaint is that is opens to 200%. Does anyone know how to tweak this so it opens at say 100%? I find that annoying too, but I have not figured out how to change that default. As for Pentax including TDN4 with every K-7, don't hold your breath. To do so would be tantamount to admitting that their camera has an especially bad problem with noise. Rob

06-11-2010, 03:12 PM	#28
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by robgo2 I find that annoying too, but I have not figured out how to change that default. As for Pentax including TDN4 with every K-7, don't hold your breath. To do so would be tantamount to admitting that their camera has an especially bad problem with noise. Rob Under Menu > Preferences, you'll find a relative / absolute setting. The absolute will invoke TDN to start using the last settings you use with your image. So if you choose 1:1 in your last session, it should load with 1:1 again(knock on wood). Technical, TDN is bordering on miraculous with respects to it's NR capabilities. The more I use it, the more unbelievable it becomes...

06-12-2010, 08:01 PM	#29
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by JohnBee Under Menu > Preferences, you'll find a relative / absolute setting. The absolute will invoke TDN to start using the last settings you use with your image. So if you choose 1:1 in your last session, it should load with 1:1 again(knock on wood). Technical, TDN is bordering on miraculous with respects to it's NR capabilities. The more I use it, the more unbelievable it becomes... Thanks John. Tried it and set it to absolute and still opens to 200%. Gosh this Topaz deal works great, but they need to fix that 200% deal.

06-12-2010, 08:05 PM	#30
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Okay thanks for clarifying that(I was hopefull ). TBH. I usually hit my zero preset before the plugin even starts and so manouvering is quite painless afterward. As for the app, it is a true technical wonder... but wow... it sure needs some interface improvements. I have a little wishlist that I'v compiled for the Topaz forum. But I haven't gotten around to posting it yet. Perhaps we should put something togegether as a community(with a little more punch). I'm sure the developers would love to know that there product's getting mass attention.