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06-14-2010, 01:12 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by lectrolink Quote
If you are going to shoot something against the sky, you will definitely need to apply some +EV... I would start with +.7ev. Otherwise, the camera will want to expose the dominant sky more toward the 18% gray color
Sorry, but I don't understand this 18% gray business. Would somebody please explain?
As the picture was predominately sky, why didn't the camera expose the sky correctly leaving the a/c and ground dark?
It seems to have under-exposed the whole frame.

For all you tweakers and air-show fans, I've attached another of my dull shots for you to play with.

Have fun!

Attached Images
 
06-14-2010, 01:40 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frank-x Quote
Sorry, but I don't understand this 18% gray business. Would somebody please explain?
Understanding Camera Metering and Exposure
06-14-2010, 03:21 PM   #33
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Just a quick fix here. Looked a little better in PSE8 than it does here for some reason.

Last edited by MPrince; 03-17-2016 at 02:41 PM.
06-14-2010, 03:40 PM   #34
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Frank, shooting moving planes in the sky is an impossible task to start with. A plane in the sky is not going to pop from a dull background.

Go to a park first and shoot non-moving objects. Or shoot the planes on the Tarmac when they aren't moving.

06-14-2010, 05:04 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frank-x Quote
Sorry, but I don't understand this 18% gray business. Would somebody please explain?
As the picture was predominately sky, why didn't the camera expose the sky correctly leaving the a/c and ground dark?
It seems to have under-exposed the whole frame.
Remember, the camera has no idea what "correctly" is supposed to be. In fact, there is no such thing at all, but there's a range of possibilities which could be reasonably chosen as correct. The camera's processing engine doesn't know anything about that, though. It just has this one basic assumption: on average, the world is a medium gray. For technical reasons, this is called "18% gray", but the important thing to remember is "eh, everything averages out to muddled gray".

For general lighting situations -- people in softly-light natural surroundings, say -- that's actually just about right. Point and shoot, and you're done. The sky, however, is really bright. When you point the camera at it, the camera has no idea that what it's sensing is supposed to be brighter than middle-gray. It just does its thing and adjusts exposure so that the frame is recorded "normally".

If you have a special circumstance (bright!), you've got to tell the camera to shift its expectations. That's the EV compensation.

(In matrix metering mode, it's a little more complicated, but I see you're using center-weighted anyway.)



QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
Frank, shooting moving planes in the sky is an impossible task to start with. A plane in the sky is not going to pop from a dull background.

Go to a park first and shoot non-moving objects. Or shoot the planes on the Tarmac when they aren't moving.
That's not very nicely put, even if you mean well..
06-14-2010, 05:09 PM   #36
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Attached: your image above, run through the shadows and highlights script, with the shadows correction layer at 100% and duplicated, and highlights at 100% as well to pull back some of the overcompensation in the sky.

This is probably a bit over done, and the quick-and-dirty approach leaves an awful halo effect, but you'd see less of that working with the full-resolution image (or fine-tuning the shadows/highlights tool further -- there's a different version of the script that has more options, and the photoshop filter does as well). And you could recover a bit more from RAW.
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06-14-2010, 05:29 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
Frank, shooting moving planes in the sky is an impossible task to start with. A plane in the sky is not going to pop from a dull background.
With respect Ira, it's not an impossible task, it's a healthy challenge!

I also took this one on the same day, which I think 'pops' quite nicely (after a bit of tweaking!)
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06-14-2010, 05:31 PM   #38
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I have to bring up the dust splotches on your sensor again -- you should do something about that!

06-14-2010, 05:35 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Remember, the camera has no idea what "correctly" is supposed to be. In fact, there is no such thing at all, but there's a range of possibilities which could be reasonably chosen as correct. The camera's processing engine doesn't know anything about that, though. It just has this one basic assumption: on average, the world is a medium gray. For technical reasons, this is called "18% gray", but the important thing to remember is "eh, everything averages out to muddled gray".

For general lighting situations -- people in softly-light natural surroundings, say -- that's actually just about right. Point and shoot, and you're done. The sky, however, is really bright. When you point the camera at it, the camera has no idea that what it's sensing is supposed to be brighter than middle-gray. It just does its thing and adjusts exposure so that the frame is recorded "normally".

If you have a special circumstance (bright!), you've got to tell the camera to shift its expectations. That's the EV compensation.

(In matrix metering mode, it's a little more complicated, but I see you're using center-weighted anyway.)
Thanks Matt, nice explanation.

Cheers
06-14-2010, 05:38 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I have to bring up the dust splotches on your sensor again -- you should do something about that!
Yeah, I know, annoying aren't they!

I'm working on it, thanks.
06-14-2010, 06:09 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frank-x Quote
Thanks Matt, nice explanation.

Cheers
Yes, nicely done Matt.
06-14-2010, 06:35 PM   #42
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it's all about the light... well mostly the direction of the light... you on ground, plane in the air, sun above all... a difficult situation. Your last picture is better exposed because the plane is lower and you're getting more side-lighting. If you look at the histogram of the 1st pic you can see that it is underexposed. To 'save' the shot, just setting the white point and middle point improves the pic significantly. Attached has had these adjustment and a slight tweaking to the colour balance (still not right). About 10secs work in PS.
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06-15-2010, 06:25 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frank-x Quote
Yeah, I know, annoying aren't they!

I'm working on it, thanks.
Not as easy a task as one would hope sometimes. I had to live with a couple on my K-x all through my recent trip. They just would not respond to air, and I was not going to touch my sensor with anything not intended for that purpose. Dust is the bane of the lover of prime lenses on a DSLR.
06-15-2010, 03:37 PM   #44
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Just curious, what lens did you use?, did not see it mentioned.

Also in addition to slight underexposure, looks like lot of vapor in the air, no fixing that.
I did not expect you to have similar atmospheric haze like we do, because of high humidity
Cheers, Mike.

Last edited by Ex Finn.; 06-15-2010 at 03:47 PM.
06-15-2010, 04:22 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
Just curious, what lens did you use?, did not see it mentioned.

Also in addition to slight underexposure, looks like lot of vapor in the air, no fixing that.
I did not expect you to have similar atmospheric haze like we do, because of high humidity
Cheers, Mike.
It was the 50-200mm kit lens with no filter. Quite impressed with the kit lenses, quite sharp and very little fringing.

Yes, you can see the haze in the distant hills. Also, I was shooting against the sun. Not ideal at all! On reflection I think I was expecting too much. I have a lot to learn.
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