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01-13-2011, 07:45 PM   #166
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Pro? Not Pro?
How is a camera classified as such?

Granted Richard you may not be well versed with the number of discussions we've had on this forum alone about Pentax not being a professional photographer's brand: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/28162-k10-considered-professional-camera.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/82421-why-k20d-k7-...dered-pro.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/124524-k5-midrange-semipro.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/32238-photography-professional.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/108386-fair-cri...tax-brand.html amongst many others, but be cognisant that making such a statement is just inciting.

In the end, we know gear is important, but whatever people consider as pro does not mean much to the pro. If a piece of kit is used by a professional, who's to tell the pro he's not using pro gear?


Last edited by Ash; 01-13-2011 at 07:54 PM.
01-13-2011, 08:01 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard978 Quote
The problem with canon is how much you have to pay to get a decent body. 700.00 gets you the 550D but despite having great auto focus and low light performance the build quality is poor.

I own various canon film cameras and I love them but the cost of getting the same in digital is about 3,500.

So I'm in the market for for a new Camera and despite all the hype from Canon and Nikon, I'm moving to pentax. For one image stabilisation is built into the camera...so you dont have to stick to the most expensive lenses. They are no non sense camera with world class lenses.

The problem for me is the release of the Kr, which seems to out perform the K7 and is 250.00 cheaper. The downside is that the Kr isn't built as well and lacks the extra controls. I'm still trying to decide which of the two to buy. I'd love the K5, but there is no way I'm parting with 1,200 in this climate.

The Pentax Kx and KR blows away the Nikon D3100 and 500d. They are faster, cheaper and outperform them on every account.....come with better kit lenses etc etc etc. As for Full HD I'm not even interested.

I think Autofocus is a great tool but as a photographer you should be able to match it with manual. Sports photographers etc make a living from taking that shot....so therefore having a reliable autofocus is a great aid to making a living. They take 100s of shots to get that image and spend many thousands of pounds on telephoto lenses and cameras. The Pentax K7 isn't a pro camera and as we have seen is more than capable of taking great photos in the right hands. The Pentax K7 is a semi pro camera.
don't let the bitching confuse you the K7 is pretty decent in low light, there are just better now (the k5 for instance) I picked up a used 7 for less than a kr, in most ways it is a superior camera with the exception of ridiculous high iso. if you need to shoot above 1600 with any sort of regularity then the kr is your camera (or the K5) but otherwise the k7 is a fantastic brick of a camera
01-14-2011, 02:08 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Pro? Not Pro?
How is a camera classified as such?

Granted Richard you may not be well versed with the number of discussions we've had on this forum alone about Pentax not being a professional photographer's brand: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/28162-k10-considered-professional-camera.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/82421-why-k20d-k7-...dered-pro.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/124524-k5-midrange-semipro.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/32238-photography-professional.html, https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/108386-fair-cri...tax-brand.html amongst many others, but be cognisant that making such a statement is just inciting.

In the end, we know gear is important, but whatever people consider as pro does not mean much to the pro. If a piece of kit is used by a professional, who's to tell the pro he's not using pro gear?
I suppose it depends what your job demands....right tool for the right job. I don't sit at the side of a football pitch following a ball around with a telephoto lense taking 100s of images. I do long trecks and climbs and need a camera with superior battery life and can cope with what ever the weather throws at me.

If my job was to take landscape photos I'd be looking at a Bronica or a full frame camera.

On this basis I would argue that the K7 and K5 and high end semi pro....
01-14-2011, 02:34 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard978 Quote
I suppose it depends what your job demands....right tool for the right job. I don't sit at the side of a football pitch following a ball around with a telephoto lense taking 100s of images. I do long trecks and climbs and need a camera with superior battery life and can cope with what ever the weather throws at me.

If my job was to take landscape photos I'd be looking at a Bronica or a full frame camera.
Or get yourself a 645D for dynamic range most suited to landscape photography...

QuoteQuote:
On this basis I would argue that the K7 and K5 and high end semi pro....
I don't see how this follows from your point. If you're arguing that the K-5 is not as well suited to landscape photography than let's say a D700 or 5DMkII, I'm dubious. The 16Mp CMOS sensor is quite a contender against these older FF sensors in terms of dynamic range. There is no argument that FF offers higher resolution and great for large format printing - there are many other advantages to FF that are not pertinent to landscape photography and make the D700 and 5DMkII more versatile photographic tools.

How many categories of camera class do we really need? D3100 is standard entry-level, D7000 and K-r high-end entry-level, D90 standard semi-pro, K-5 and D300 high-end semi-pro, K-5 and D300 high-end semi-pro, D700 and 5DMkII standard pro, D3X and 1D high-end pro, Hassleblad, Leaf, Pentax etc. dMF are ?ultra high-end pro... not very helpful IMO. These tools fall in a spectrum of utility, and the pro discerns what tool will get the job done - overkill is fine, and the photographer's prerogative, but the tool that will get the job done is just as pro as any other...

Caveat: a fantastic camera is only as good as the lenses mounted on it.

01-14-2011, 05:56 PM   #170
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You know, posts like this only end up being very bias.. You are in a Pentax forum, you think people will tell you Canon or Nikon is superior?
01-14-2011, 06:18 PM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Or get yourself a 645D for dynamic range most suited to landscape photography...



I don't see how this follows from your point. If you're arguing that the K-5 is not as well suited to landscape photography than let's say a D700 or 5DMkII, I'm dubious. The 16Mp CMOS sensor is quite a contender against these older FF sensors in terms of dynamic range. There is no argument that FF offers higher resolution and great for large format printing - there are many other advantages to FF that are not pertinent to landscape photography and make the D700 and 5DMkII more versatile photographic tools.

How many categories of camera class do we really need? D3100 is standard entry-level, D7000 and K-r high-end entry-level, D90 standard semi-pro, K-5 and D300 high-end semi-pro, K-5 and D300 high-end semi-pro, D700 and 5DMkII standard pro, D3X and 1D high-end pro, Hassleblad, Leaf, Pentax etc. dMF are ?ultra high-end pro... not very helpful IMO. These tools fall in a spectrum of utility, and the pro discerns what tool will get the job done - overkill is fine, and the photographer's prerogative, but the tool that will get the job done is just as pro as any other...

Caveat: a fantastic camera is only as good as the lenses mounted on it.
uber caveat a camera is only as good as the person using it
01-14-2011, 07:47 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
uber caveat a camera is only as good as the person using it
Correction, the resulting picture is only as good as the person using the camera. You could give a Hasselblad to an idiot and while the pictures may suck, it's still a great camera.
01-14-2011, 08:32 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by musicman9294 Quote
You know, posts like this only end up being very bias.. You are in a Pentax forum, you think people will tell you Canon or Nikon is superior?
Yes, if they are honest and it applies.

Nikon AF *is* superior to Pentax. Canon...not really.

Caveat: this superiority is mostly evident when shooting is towards the in extremis situations.

In other ways Pentax is superior to Nikon.

01-14-2011, 10:19 PM   #174
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I don't see the point of these blanket statemetns "Nikon AF *is* superior to Pentax. Canon not really."

Do you really think a K-5 will beat the AF of a Canon 1-series?

I think that at the *entry* level (D3100, 550D, K-r) Pentax isn't significantly behind or is at par.

But at the high end (D3, D700, 1D) I don't think Pentax can even approach that level of performance. Note I "think" -- having not tried any of those cameras. What I can say is (having both cameras) the Canon 40D is significantly better (at least 30%) than the K20D. note my concerns about AF accuracy though, the 40D seems to be faster because it has a looser definition of what "in focus" is.

That said, I've just installed my jinfinance split screen in my 40D and it's dead on, no shimming required. And even though (I think) the "in focus" definition is looser for the Canon, the split screen still indicates in-focus every time. So the accuracy seems to be enough. It's not 100% though (I can get better focus by manual-focusing using Live View.. but only marginally better)

Last edited by orly_andico; 01-14-2011 at 11:16 PM.
01-16-2011, 05:48 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by noahpurdy Quote
The OP's gripes aren't unfounded. The SAFOX autofocus in Pentax cameras is the sole reason I've abandoned all but my K-1000 and a 50mm. It's absurd that they haven't revamped the entire system.

I switched from a K-7 to a 5d Mk II. Comparing those two, the 5d is infinitely better. The people that gripe about the 5d's autofocus are comparing it to a 1d series camera it seems. I don't see how it could get better.


oh the irony.
01-16-2011, 08:23 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by orly_andico Quote
But at the high end (D3, D700, 1D) I don't think Pentax can even approach that level of performance. Note I "think" -- having not tried any of those cameras.
Having used all those cameras I will say you would be correct with that assumption. The only high end camera that the K5/K7 can touch in AF is the 5d mkII, but even Canonites complain how slow the AF is on it.
01-16-2011, 10:25 AM   #177
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Pentax would appear to have a higher quality build. I have had two canon film cameras that just packed up for no good reason....nothing works at all. Yet I have a Ricoh KR10 that still works today.

Canon have let quality slip, poor battery and lense contacts....etc etc. Just look at the build of the 550d and compare it to the K7.....the canon is now the most expensive of the two and to pick it up it feel like a toy. Just go through the forums and count the amout of battery issues people have with canon cameras...hundreds.

I wouldn't buy a canon under a 1000.00 at the moment.
01-16-2011, 12:02 PM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
> UnknownVT

It's not the speed of autofocus that is the problem, it's the camera's insistence of usually cycling up and down through the entire focus range of the 55-300 before being able to take the first photo that is so frustrating.
I know this frustration using the 55-300 because - great lense for the money though it is - it's AF is very slow. However the advice given above is very good - I actually focus on the moon if it is out (or a distant ground subject if not), then the lense is almost already focused for any passing bird / plane.
01-16-2011, 12:23 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
I know this frustration using the 55-300 because - great lense for the money though it is - it's AF is very slow. However the advice given above is very good - I actually focus on the moon if it is out (or a distant ground subject if not), then the lense is almost already focused for any passing bird / plane.
AF speed is dependent also on the lens characteristics, notably the focus throw. The 55-300, amongst many AF macro lenses, have such a long focus throw that it takes the AF motor a significant amount of time to screen from one focus extreme to the other.

This also occurs with such new 'macro' versions of lenses as the Tamron 70-200, which reduced its MFD from 1.8m to 0.95m, which exponentially increases the focal throw of the lens, which then users complain about since it takes longer to focus from end-to-end. The focus speed is actually the same, only it just has to get through a longer throw - and there is no 'macro' focus limiter. However, focusing at a subject at a distance already close to where the focus is set on the lens tends to speed up focusing on such lenses immensely.
01-16-2011, 04:19 PM   #180
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The camera cycling from stop-to-stop is a known "characteristic" of the Pentax AF algorithm that aggravates focusing speed with long-throw lenses.

I know this from experience with my D-FA Macro..

I've also noticed that the Canon will cycle from stop-to-stop, if there isn't enough contrast in the subject. But the Pentax is far more likely to do so, e.g. the AF sensor in the Pentax is lower-sensitivity than that in the 40D (note that the 40D has better AF than the 5D Mk II).

So, in summary... (1) more sensitive AF sensor in the 40D vs K20D; (2) more optimistic about "in-focus" makes the 40D more responsive. Accuracy wise seems to be a bit less (or maybe its the 10MP vs 15MP, the Pentax seems sharper at 1:1).
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