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01-06-2011, 05:17 PM   #151
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The flip side of that argument is...

Today people expect their machines to do the impossible.

And then bitch about when they don't. ;-)

01-06-2011, 05:39 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
The flip side of that argument is...

Today people expect their machines to do the impossible.

And then bitch about when they don't. ;-)
True - expectations have gotten a bit out of whack at times.
01-06-2011, 07:22 PM   #153
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This is the trouble with pixel-peeping at 1:1.

RiceHigh keeps saying that his old MZ-30 and MZ-5 had much faster focus than current Pentax DSLRs. I have a feeling that they are also substantially less accurate, but since most folks didn't enlarge much past 8x10, that was good enough.
01-07-2011, 12:38 PM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by orly_andico Quote
...............RiceHigh ............
Hey, watch your language.

01-08-2011, 08:37 PM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by kari Quote
but the 55-300 is too slow to keep up.
Yeah, that's a shocker for AF speed.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
This is a common refrain...
For Christmas I received a biography of NZ's best and most well-known rugby photographer. It's got many of his old photos in there, many are fuzzy and out of focus, totally unacceptable today for publication, even in newspapers. That's just the way it is now.
01-09-2011, 09:11 AM - 9 Likes   #156
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Well after reading the whole thread, I have to say it's the internet at it's best. Many people posting opinions without documentation. My advice on that is, for many of these posts, you cannot know, if what the person says is accurate. People will complain about how fast something focuses, but they may be talking about how smooth the lenses focuses, whether it focuses by and object and comes back, or a hundred other variations between lenses and manufacturers that feel "faster or slower" but may have nothing to do with actual performance. A simple fact, if you tell people one camera is faster or slower, they will experience that, true or not. You you have to get inside the poster's head and try and evaluate their biases. That's impossible to do with any accuracy.

So word of advice to the new. Listen to the guys who have spent time with both Canon and Pentax and can talk about both in positive terms. Someone who takes a modern camera, any modern camera, and start talking trash about it, has other issues. IN photography, your point and shoot is just as important as your SLR because for a lot of photos, you don't have time to set up. And for a lot of issues, it's not about the camera. There are simply stated, no systems designed to give you perfect pictures every time. No company has the time to sit down with every photographer and look at how he shoots, and customize a camera for his or her shooting style. To some extent, being a photographer is learning to shoot with the equipment you have.

The original poster would have you believe that if you buy a Canon, you will be able to get a higher percentage of fast moving shots in low light.

My first question is, show me some evidence this might be true?
The second, for the guys who claim something is critical, put up an example. Now this is tough for people, it's easy to have an opinion, it's hard to put up the data that make you think that way, because someone else may have a different interpretation of what you perceive as a problem, and my even have a simple work around based on camera settings that you never investigated. You could end up looking dumb, it's happened to me many times. But if you don't take that chance, you don't learn.

So you have to take a chance. I have a sequence of shots of one of my border collies task in burst mode, hand held, with every shot in acceptable focus with my K-x and a Sigma 70-300 macro 1:2 macro.. those pictures say more about the K-x's (and I assume later Pentax's. than almost anything I've seen here.) I can't post them right now because my wife has the computer we do our PP on, but I'll post them later. These shots were what I use for my reference of what my camera can and can't do. And I have to say, the negatives on this thread are about one function, low light auto focus.

A lot of the statements on here would suggest that my camera can't do what it does. That I find offensive. If you want to discuss stuff fine. If some guy wants to claim his whole photographic experience revolves around auto-focussing in low light, that's fine too. But recognize, he's talking about .05% of my photographic experience.

So what I want to see is a side by side comparison of a group of shots showing the shots he got with someone got with a Canon, and other shots someone got with a Pentax, and clear examples of why one is better than the other. Even if there is a difference, I'm guessing it's a difference over very small range of specific lighting conditions. And I'm also guessing that someone has a workaround that negates the difference. I am really tired of the opinions of writers who comment on minute differences between cameras as if they were in some way meaningful facts.

Long story short, my Pentax works fine for me. Does it take every picture I want to take, no it doesn't, but neither does any other camera. I see pictures I'd like to take in pitch blackness, I see pictures I'd like to take of birds that are moving faster than my hand and eye can track. I see pictures in impossible lighting conditions. I see pictures everywhere. There is no camera that can take every picture I see. So if someone says, oh, you can't take this or that picture with a Pentax, the first thing I want to do is go try. Just because you can't doesn't mean I can't. The second thing I want to see is that picture taken with your camera of choice. Because half the time when I see those pictures I just look at it and think, "that isn't a picture I care to take". Whether that be lack of interest in the subject or style or whatever. I love looking at the pictures on this forum, the variety and originality, but, as much as I like looking, there are many I have no interest in taking myself. And it would be a waste of money to buy a camera because that is it's strength.

And the thing is, I would feel the same way if I owned a Canon or a Nikon.There is going to be a learning curve with every camera. When you jump systems you really have to consider how long and if you're willing to spend the time t become prfixcient with the new system. If you didn't have time to read and understand the manual that came with your original system odds are, you won't do it for the new system either.

So to answer a previous post, yes, saying "If Pentax doesn't do this and this I'm switching to Canon" is childish, and there are a number of reasons why. First to make this statement, you have to admit, you bought a camera that isn't suited to your shooting needs. It's not up to Pentax to make a camera that suits your needs. It's up to you to make sure you buy the camera that best suits your needs. If you didn't do your research, don't blame Pentax. That's not their job. Do you really think it's Pentax's responsibility to put out ads that say, "if you want quick focus in low light, and you want to be part of a herd of people who believe their camera is best for that.. buy a Canon or a Nikon." To expect that is naive to the point of being childish.

Second, the OP's perception that Pentax should care about his complaint.. who knows what Pentax is thinking about, what the goals of their engineers are, is also childish. IN putting a sensor and software in the K-5 that increased the Dynamic Range 2 Evs, Pentax has done exactly what I would have wanted. And as another poster pointed out, that's going to help low light images. Assuming we all will be sympathetic to what he wants is also childish.

His post is the equivalent of "I'm going to take my football and go home." And the answer of mature people is to smirk and say "Well go then." Don't buy in to the perceived emotional black mail. And the thing is, maybe he would be better with a Canon system. But, how is that relevant to me? For me, and thousands of other posters on this site, what he's proposing would be stupidity.

Telling thousands of Pentax users you're going to switch to another system is attention seeking and ... childish.

Despite that there have been some great posts along with the usual drivel. SO I can thank the OP for the original post, but my question remains.. how old are you?
01-09-2011, 09:29 AM   #157
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Day-um, normhead! Why don't you tell us what you really think? Overall, I kinda agree with you. When I read these threads about, "If Pentax doesn't do so-and-so, I'm gonna leave!", I just shake my head. Those who truly need something that Pentax doesn't offer don't make a big deal out of it. They just shift systems. It's not even a conversation..."I make my living shooting sports and Pentax can't keep up" (or whatever)....boom, end of story. When someone NEEDS something, they change to what works. It's only when we WANT something (vs a real need) that we agonize over it.

01-09-2011, 11:30 AM   #158
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@normhead, great and thoughtful post. I have followed this posts many times and read others who responded to the OP, but I resisted to respond every time. I have many friends who owned Canon 5D and 7D, but there is no evidence they can do better than me with my K10D or K-7 for low light focusing. Also since they rely so much on the "auto-focus select" feature and many of shots they have are in 'soft' or 'mis-' focus category whereas mine are usually tack sharp.

As you pointed out, it depends a lot on the person behind the camera and more importantly some shots are not worth taking anyway even if it means you can focus lightning fast.
01-09-2011, 12:43 PM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Some hard numbers. The journal FOTO, the oldest photographic magazine in Sweden, tested the K-r in their 2011 January issue. Here is the autofocus speed compared to what they consider similar Canikon models (with similar lenses, all 18-55 kit zooms):

Penta K-r at 18, 35 and 55mm: 0.30s, 0.35s, 0.39s (shutter-delay 0.08s)
Canon 500D at 18, 35 and 55mm: 0.28s, 0.31s, 0.31s (shutter-delay 0.13s)
Nikon D3100 at 18, 35 and 55mm: 0.31s, 0.45s, 0.47s (shutter-delay 0.13s)

The Pentax and the Canon is so close that taking the shutter-delay into account, the K-r is the faster camera at 18 and 35mm. Nikon is clearly behind both Canon and Pentax. This is a journal I trust to be unbiased and to take tests seriously (even to the degree that I'd think this is average values, not single measurements). Pentax K-5 will be tested in the next issue, against comparable models.
Interesting, too often we assume because the top of the line model has some feature, like fast focusing, that every camera in the line is the same. Yet most models sold are not the top of the line.

My most demanding shooting for the last 2 years are plays at a public live performance theatre where a group of us shoot promo pics for local media and the lobby(flash not allowed). Rarely does one shoot the whole stage, the most dramatic photos that are used in the local newspapers or for the lobby are the ones that feature the interaction of 2 or 3 actors. So i use DOF to get more actors in focus, plus more DOF means that individual AF is not so important. In fact, i don't use half shutter focus at all, just use the AF button every 5 or 6 shots to focus somewhere in the middle of the action area. Large DOF means that AF inaccuracy is not important.

Indeed, the most important feature of the K5 is the high ISO performance. With that high ISO, i will be able to shoot darker scenes that Chekhov loved to write for, or use smaller apertures for DOF and higher shutter speeds to capture human movement. Many times, AF is just not that important. Ever try to shoot a heron through a series of reeds in a marsh area or shoot through glass with water droplets on the window with the subject behind. Or shoot a subject with snow falling (AF will often focus on the snow flakes leaving the human subjects out of focus)

Like many auto features, AF has its pros and cons. I do agree with some other comments, there are times when AF is invaluable, but its only one part of the tool. (Need i mention that K5 has a quiet shutter, something thats important in theatres :-))

Last edited by philbaum; 01-09-2011 at 12:51 PM.
01-09-2011, 03:38 PM   #160
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I really don't get this kinds of complaints.

I have used Canon a lot, and the auto-focus speed and accuracy isn't far off from the newest from Pentax.

But I supposed it could just be bias blinding me.
01-13-2011, 01:31 PM - 1 Like   #161
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Well, I'm new to DSLR.. my K100D is my first. I had no complaints with the AF. But, on photo hunting session with my friends, whenever there is a 'take my camera for this shot' situations, I honestly feel that there's a noticeable faster AF in other brands. I haven't got my hands any newer Pentax model, so I'm assuming that it's because my K100D is a bit old
01-13-2011, 01:43 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by minahasa Quote
Well, I'm new to DSLR.. my K100D is my first. I had no complaints with the AF. But, on photo hunting session with my friends, whenever there is a 'take my camera for this shot' situations, I honestly feel that there's a noticeable faster AF in other brands. I haven't got my hands any newer Pentax model, so I'm assuming that it's because my K100D is a bit old
you are comparing an older model with acknowledged slower speeds though, not talking about the new models like the OP was.
If it suits your needs then it auto-focuses just fine
Norm nailed it above, I'm at the point now when i see these types of threads designed to provoke response to just say o really goodbye then have a good life. Really if i thought i needed something pentax couldn't supply, and it was make or break I'd change systems, or run a second one since my pentax setup would be hard to replicate fro a reasonable price.

I don't shoot a lot of AF now, but when I have tried my AF lenses on the K7 I'm blown away by how much better it is than the K10 was. could it be better ? yep it could. Could a Dx3 nikon be a better camera , yep it could be a 645D for my purposes which are now less about speed and more about taking the time to get it right

Thanks for Voicing what i'm sure a lot of us were thinking Norm, now where are those Border Collie shots?
01-13-2011, 02:31 PM   #163
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The problem with canon is how much you have to pay to get a decent body. £700.00 gets you the 550D but despite having great auto focus and low light performance the build quality is poor.

I own various canon film cameras and I love them but the cost of getting the same in digital is about £3,500.

So I'm in the market for for a new Camera and despite all the hype from Canon and Nikon, I'm moving to pentax. For one image stabilisation is built into the camera...so you dont have to stick to the most expensive lenses. They are no non sense camera with world class lenses.

The problem for me is the release of the Kr, which seems to out perform the K7 and is £250.00 cheaper. The downside is that the Kr isn't built as well and lacks the extra controls. I'm still trying to decide which of the two to buy. I'd love the K5, but there is no way I'm parting with £1,200 in this climate.

The Pentax Kx and KR blows away the Nikon D3100 and 500d. They are faster, cheaper and outperform them on every account.....come with better kit lenses etc etc etc. As for Full HD I'm not even interested.

I think Autofocus is a great tool but as a photographer you should be able to match it with manual. Sports photographers etc make a living from taking that shot....so therefore having a reliable autofocus is a great aid to making a living. They take 100s of shots to get that image and spend many thousands of pounds on telephoto lenses and cameras. The Pentax K7 isn't a pro camera and as we have seen is more than capable of taking great photos in the right hands. The Pentax K7 is a semi pro camera.

Last edited by richard978; 01-13-2011 at 02:41 PM.
01-13-2011, 05:18 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard978 Quote
The Pentax K7 isn't a pro camera and as we have seen is more than capable of taking great photos in the right hands. The Pentax K7 is a semi pro camera.
I realise your intentions are likely good but I do get tired of people repeating this sort of nonsense. Despite everything the marketing departments try to tell you, there is no such thing as professional gear. There are only professional people. (And darned few of those, since it is a matter of ethics not income.)

QuoteOriginally posted by richard978 Quote
I'd love the K5, but there is no way I'm parting with £1,200 in this climate.
Well, it is weather and cold proof.
01-13-2011, 07:14 PM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
you are comparing an older model with acknowledged slower speeds though, not talking about the new models like the OP was.
If it suits your needs then it auto-focuses just fine
Norm nailed it above, I'm at the point now when i see these types of threads designed to provoke response to just say o really goodbye then have a good life. Really if i thought i needed something pentax couldn't supply, and it was make or break I'd change systems, or run a second one since my pentax setup would be hard to replicate fro a reasonable price.

I don't shoot a lot of AF now, but when I have tried my AF lenses on the K7 I'm blown away by how much better it is than the K10 was. could it be better ? yep it could. Could a Dx3 nikon be a better camera , yep it could be a 645D for my purposes which are now less about speed and more about taking the time to get it right

Thanks for Voicing what i'm sure a lot of us were thinking Norm, now where are those Border Collie shots?
You are right, K100D is a little sluggish when it comes to AF, so a number of personal reviews said. In my group I'm the only person who owns anything Pentax, most of my friends have newer non-Pentax models, blessed with today's novelty. They, however, soon enough learned to respect my gears in terms of IQ. I easily embarrassed 500D with my kit lens and goes head to head with 7D, if I puts on M 1.4

So, it's not really a total loss here
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