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06-24-2010, 12:54 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Yes, sensor dust a painful problem. I bought the cleaning kit from micro-tools

but I have to check with micro-tools if that can be used on K-x sensor.

Thanks,
Hin
Thanks. I'll look into it.

I still love my primes!

06-24-2010, 03:54 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Marc, it's nice that it works out that way for you, but there is nothing exaggerated about my report of this problem. It went from one spot at the beginning of the trip to a whole menagerie in the skies by the end, and it did not respond to air from my rocket blower, or even to a sensor pen.

It is also inaccurate to call it dust, because dust does usually blow away. I usually don't find dust all that big a problem when I'm shooting close to home, but travel seems to bring in more lens changes in less than ideal conditions. There are all sorts of other airborne matter with a sticky or greasy component. This trip's bounty took all three liquid treatments from Visible Dust plus a final blowing to remove.
I can attest to Gene's experience. It is NOT an exaggeration experience. The rocket blower is 95+ % effective in most cases for me. But with moisture, difference in humidity perhaps, not all dust are the same in the failed case with the blower. I convinced one of my buddy NOT to buy a wet kit but to first get a rocket blower. He went on a Europe trip with wetness involved. We used three different blowers and had absolutely no success in removing any of the 5+ sticky spots on his Canon for over an hour of trial. It was only the wet kit similar to the one that I mentioned above that help clean it up cleanly in multiple applications.

Thanks,
Hin
06-24-2010, 10:49 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Marc, it's nice that it works out that way for you, but there is nothing exaggerated about my report of this problem. It went from one spot at the beginning of the trip to a whole menagerie in the skies by the end, and it did not respond to air from my rocket blower, or even to a sensor pen.
OK, but that sounds like an isolated incident. Surely your camera doesn't develop such a menagerie of blower-resistant dust every week? That is, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen - I am saying that it doesn't happen *often*.
06-25-2010, 01:53 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
OK, but that sounds like an isolated incident. Surely your camera doesn't develop such a menagerie of blower-resistant dust every week? That is, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen - I am saying that it doesn't happen *often*.
It may not happen very often in the area you live, but it may happen quite often in other areas of the world. It also matters what and how you usually shoot, because the same dust may not be visible on portraits while absolutely ruin macro shots.

06-25-2010, 05:42 AM   #35
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sensor cleaning --overview website

With the preface that I'm a brand-new DSLR user: it appears to me that intractable sensor specks are not common, but not rare either. A search of the forums will show others have experienced what GeneV described. I read several forum suggestions about cleaning, but as a newbie I wanted to have a more comprehensive discussion. The following website has a good overview of the DSLR sensor cleaning issue --at least from my novice perspective.

http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/index.html

One detail question: the Pentax K10D is said to have a tin oxide sensor (as does the Sony Alpha series and the Canon XTi/400D and 5), which calls for a more specialized liquid cleaner (e.g. Eclipse 2 rather than original Eclipse). Does anyone know if the sensor in the K-X is tin oxide?
06-25-2010, 07:28 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by pixelated Quote
With the preface that I'm a brand-new DSLR user: it appears to me that intractable sensor specks are not common, but not rare either. A search of the forums will show others have experienced what GeneV described. I read several forum suggestions about cleaning, but as a newbie I wanted to have a more comprehensive discussion. The following website has a good overview of the DSLR sensor cleaning issue --at least from my novice perspective.

Introduction - Cleaning Digital Cameras - D-SLR Sensor Cleaning.

One detail question: the Pentax K10D is said to have a tin oxide sensor (as does the Sony Alpha series and the Canon XTi/400D and 5), which calls for a more specialized liquid cleaner (e.g. Eclipse 2 rather than original Eclipse). Does anyone know if the sensor in the K-X is tin oxide?
That is the first site that I went to in studying the wet method. Risk is involved in DIY and it is important to fully understand the procedures in any kind of wet cleaning. Rest assured is that what we are cleaning is not the sensor but rather a thin film on top of the sensor.

I get confused a bit on Eclipse and Eclipse E2. I used the E2 on K20D and now I am not so sure as Photographic Solutions confirms the original eclipse to be safe as well. I read that E2 is mixed with water to reduce the concentration to be safer for newer sensor as in cmos after ccd sensor in dSLR. Some information that I dig up


Eclipse E2 Sensor Cleaning Fluid
-- linked off from micro-tools --



In any event, the wet method or any methods that involves physically touching with the sensor should be considered as the last resort. The first approach in sensor cleaning is always the obvious ones and the good practices with blower in my book. Again, the blower solves 95+ % , likely 98% in my case.
  • Absolutely make good use of sensor dust removable feature
  • Engage sensor dust alert checking to spot check the location of dust
  • Use the BEST known blower. I highly recommend Ghiottos Rocket Blower
  • Learn the techniques in blower with the sensor dust alert for effective blowing
  • All good practice to avoid dust with common sense such as NOT placing camera face up in lens changing, lens change in car and home before beach or wet location arrival. Clean dust with blower not just on sensor housing but also the lens rear mount
  • Always power off camera before lens changing.

It is important to learn about the good techniques in blowing air with mirror up in sensor cleaning procedure. I have few blog posts with youtube video by micro-tools and a Nikon D70 shooters sharing with others.




small one in my bag 24/7
large one at home for the tougher and regular cleaning

Archives in my blog: Sensor Dust Related Blog Posts



Hope this helps you a bit,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 06-25-2010 at 07:43 AM.
06-25-2010, 08:58 AM   #37
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I think Professor Hinman has brought me up to speed! thank you!
06-25-2010, 11:00 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
OK, but that sounds like an isolated incident. Surely your camera doesn't develop such a menagerie of blower-resistant dust every week? That is, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen - I am saying that it doesn't happen *often*.
You are right that I don't have a sensor full of garbage every week. I don't travel on vacation abroad every week, and that is what this thread is about. I do think this may be a recurring issue with traveling with a digital SLR and prime lenses. I have had to do cleanings after a trip before, but this was the first trip where about 90% of my shots were taken with primes on a DSLR.

While traveling, I was in a target rich environment for shooting, space was often limited, and there are people and things all around me that ideally would not be there when I am changing lenses. You mentioned changing lenses a dozen times a day. I've looked, for example, at my shots from Gaudi's Casa Batlló in Barcelona, and I did more lens changes than that in about an hour. This is a serious travel issue for which I will be better prepared next time.

06-25-2010, 11:07 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
It may not happen very often in the area you live, but it may happen quite often in other areas of the world. It also matters what and how you usually shoot, because the same dust may not be visible on portraits while absolutely ruin macro shots.
I think you and Hin are hitting the nail on the head about moisture. Marc lives a few hundred miles to the north of me, and down here at home, it is very dry. The blower does help most of the time, and I suspect it works for Marc as well. The last time I had to do a major cleaning was after a week in Seattle. I used zooms more on that trip, so the problem was not quite a bad, but I do think that moisture adds a whole new element.
06-25-2010, 11:10 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote

I get confused a bit on Eclipse and Eclipse E2. I used the E2 on K20D and now I am not so sure as Photographic Solutions confirms the original eclipse to be safe as well. I read that E2 is mixed with water to reduce the concentration to be safer for newer sensor as in cmos after ccd sensor in dSLR. Some information that I dig up

In any event, the wet method or any methods that involves physically touching with the sensor should be considered as the last resort. The first approach in sensor cleaning is always the obvious ones and the good practices with blower in my book. Again, the blower solves 95+ % , likely 98% in my case.

small one in my bag 24/7
large one at home for the tougher and regular cleaning
Hope this helps you a bit,
Hin
I have both sizes of the rocket as well.

Have you tried the Visible Dust System for wet cleaning? Is Eclipse better or as good and cheaper?
06-25-2010, 04:25 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I think you and Hin are hitting the nail on the head about moisture. Marc lives a few hundred miles to the north of me, and down here at home, it is very dry.
While this is true, I visit Kansas City and South Florida - surely two of the more humid places in the US - several times a year, and I also spent three weeks in Europe during a hot and rainy season. So I do have some experience shooting in other climates. Enough to be surprised that some find dust a significant problem, but not enough to be able to say with any statistical certainly which of our experiences is more typical, so I guess I'll leave it at that.
06-26-2010, 12:35 AM   #42
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The Raynox macro lens work really well with the DA40. I use a Raynox 150 myself.

QuoteQuote:
All lens porn shot with DA 35mm limited
[/center]

I will try using a diopter on the 40/21 and report back if it serves better for close up.

[lba shameless decision]
: I am sold on the 15mm limited

Thanks,
Hin
06-26-2010, 11:51 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I have both sizes of the rocket as well.

Have you tried the Visible Dust System for wet cleaning? Is Eclipse better or as good and cheaper?
Gene, I have not tried Visible Dust System as I already have the Eclipse E2 along with the pec*pad and swap wand. I will look for the Visible Dust System next. With the micro-tools, the package will serve me well for 25+ applications (rough estimate by me) and I am all covered for the cleaning need.


QuoteOriginally posted by yoshizuki Quote
The Raynox macro lens work really well with the DA40. I use a Raynox 150 myself.
I should have tried out the Raynox 150. I did mount my Cosina 1:1 macro adapter which is like a diopter with +3 to +4 magnification. I forget how to calculate the final macro ratio achieved on the 70mm. And I don't know how it will match up with Raynox 150. It think the Raynox can be adjusted while my diopter is a fixed strength magnification. Both the 70mm and 40mm limited has minimum focusing distance at 0.4m, which is not ideal for flower close up. I tried it on the 21mm limited with a 0.2m minimum focusing distance but more test will show.

Here is a snapshot with cosina 1:1 macro adapter mounted on the 70 limited test




the dof doesn't cover the eyes unfortunately



Pentax DA 70mm f/2.4 limited +
Cosina 1:1 macro adapter

I will try it next on flowers.

Thanks,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 06-27-2010 at 03:35 PM.
06-26-2010, 11:55 AM   #44
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My 15 arrived

DA 15mm f/4.0 limited is surprisingly small. Those who love the pancake will love the DA 15 in terms of size and compactness. The following is a side by side with the 21 with hood mounted. It offers the best close up among all the DA limited primes.






And a visual differentiators is the thin metal screw cap. The inner lining seems like dust magnet as it is made of some cloth material like suede. The manual focusing is much more dampened than the 21mm. AF is a sweet baby. The close up is at 0.18m in the DA 15 as compared to 0.2m in DA 21



GeneV, thanks for all the valuable inputs. I have to thank Jay (or harass him) for his thread and contribution in '15mm controls my mind' yet another lens purchase. The 15 looks awesome especially in traveling light.

Last edited by hinman; 06-28-2010 at 06:27 AM.
06-26-2010, 03:20 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
I should have tried out the Raynox 150. I did mount my Cosina 1:1 macro adapter which is like a diopter with +3 to +4 magnification. I forget how to calculate the final macro ratio achieved on the 70mm.
Calculate, schmalculate. Mount the thing, focus on a ruler as closely as you can, and however many inches fit across the frame, that's the magnification. You should find you can fit 2 inches in the frame at minimum focus distance, so that's 1:2 magnification (this works because the sensor is one inch across, more or less).

DA40 does about 1:3.

QuoteQuote:
It think the Raynox can be adjusted while my diopter is a fixed strength magnification.
No, the Raynox is fixed also. I'm not aware of any variable-diopter closeup lenses.
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