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06-29-2010, 10:17 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by tarsus Quote
A flawed test using different lenses for each camera and pitting cameras in very different price ranges (7D nearly twice as much) against each other.
You conveniently forgot to mention the pop-photo data that showed the AF speed comparison between the Rebel and the k-7 that was in the same post.

06-29-2010, 03:27 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by kytra Quote
I repeat myself- how fanatic should one be to pretend that Pentax AF is on par with Canon?

It is simply that Pentax never invested seriously in this aspect, because they have never positioned their DSLRs for fast action shooting whilst for Canon is a "raison d'etre".

I am sad to see people who just cannot accept the truth in front of their eyes - I think it is called called denial )

Every brand has it's strenghts, and quite a lot of people shoot two systems exactly for that reason.
I suppose they put a 5fps frame rate on the K-7 for giggles then?

QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote

Pentax's AF has its weakness in low light AF and tracking, but it can be made to work. a little skill, a little anticipation of the action and a fast lens.

The last wedding I shot saw my K-7 AF have a complete meltdown during the ceremony.
A little skill (I've been shooting for just about four decades) put me in the right place at the right time with the right lens (31/1.8 LTD).
A little anticipation had me tracking the subject (the bride and her dad) up the aisle to where I wanted them to be.
And the AF failed when I pushed the button and cycled from in focus to the close focus stop and back to infinity.
Admittedly it did this with remarkable speed, but it doesn't change the fact that the AF failed when I needed it, and it fails with remarkable consistency.
The AF complaints aren't just about how fast, but also how accurately and how reliably.
SAFOX may have been OK for a low end entry level film camera when it was introduced with the ist film camera in 2004, but it is woefully inadequate today, and all the apologists in the world won't change this simple fact.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 06-29-2010 at 03:37 PM.
06-29-2010, 06:46 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I..........And the AF failed when I pushed the button and cycled from in focus to the close focus stop and back to infinity.
.........The AF complaints aren't just about how fast, but also how accurately and how reliably.
.........
The Canon 50D has done that to me before in difficult lighting...it didn't focus hunt, it just decided "that's good enough" and took what turned out to be a roughly focused shot.

The Pentax AF speed is definitely slower compared to the competition, and it shuts down more quickly as the light get dimmer.
Can't really agree on the accuracy bit though. I pretty much trust the Green Hexagon in the viewfinder when it comes on - in fact the accuracy is the main thing which keeps me from complaining too much about the AF.

The grass isn't always that green on the other side.
When faced with a difficult auto focus situation, the Canon won't hesitate and won't focus hunt, as the Pentax will...which gives the user that smooth feel, but I've found a higher probability that the shot is actually not that accurately focused.

I'm not a sports shooter - the "sports" bit pretty much restricted to my kids sports activities in broad daylight, and that's no problem, even with Pentax.

For me, picture quality trumps everything else. The picture quality I get from the K-7 + lenses is as good as anything I can get from the Canon 50D (except at the highest ISO) - at a lower system cost. That's why I'm still using Pentax.

Last edited by kittykat46; 06-29-2010 at 06:51 PM.
06-29-2010, 07:46 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
A mistake from the start? I know the frustration when you cannot depend on the gears being paid from. It has been said many times that Pentax SDM is unreliable, and Canon & Nikon own sport photography. Put your personal feeling aside, buy Pentax for their primes, Canon or Nikon for big performance zooms, it's that simple really.
Agreed. I recently advised a friend to buy a Nikon over the Kx because he wanted to take pictures of his black dog in jumping contests. I figured the Nikon AF would serve him the best. I did tell him he could get good results with the Kx for a little cheaper, but the Nikon was a more "sure" bet.

Horses for courses.

06-30-2010, 02:23 AM   #170
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Advised a friend to buy Nikon? What are you even doing here? When Pentax has gone out of business and your bodies are just relics and your glass has become useless, I want all the bashers, whiners, complainers and just plain bad photographers to look back at the comments in this thread and realize your contribution to the demise of a company that offers the best bang for buck in the camera world. Why even come here to comment? Just go away.
06-30-2010, 04:05 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by tarsus Quote
Advised a friend to buy Nikon? What are you even doing here? When Pentax has gone out of business and your bodies are just relics and your glass has become useless, I want all the bashers, whiners, complainers and just plain bad photographers to look back at the comments in this thread and realize your contribution to the demise of a company that offers the best bang for buck in the camera world. Why even come here to comment? Just go away.
That is silly. This is a friendly place where people give honest answers. There is no particular reason to think that Pentax cameras are better than everything else out there for every shooting purpose. I do recommend Pentax to my friends, but if they are really interested in sports shooting, I recommend Nikon/Canon, but I am sure to let them know that to shoot much faster auto focus than Pentax they will need to spend a lot more money.
06-30-2010, 04:17 AM   #172
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FACT: Canon and Nikon make better cameras than Pentax, that's why they dominate the market. But I'm a humble guy, so Pentax is good enough for me.
06-30-2010, 04:35 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
FACT: Canon and Nikon make better cameras than Pentax, that's why they dominate the market. But I'm a humble guy, so Pentax is good enough for me.
no, not a fact. don't make such a blanket statement.

canikon has more camera bodies to choose from and they have higher-end bodies where pentax doesn't exist

canikon's lower-end bodies are NOT necessarily better than pentax.

all brands have their pro's and con's and that includes pentax.

06-30-2010, 04:41 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
FACT: Canon and Nikon make better cameras than Pentax, that's why they dominate the market. But I'm a humble guy, so Pentax is good enough for me.
Fact: Canon and Nikon have bigger and better marketing departments; that's why they dominate the market. No other reason.

NaCl(when was the last time you saw a pentax TV ad? )H2O
06-30-2010, 05:01 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by tarsus Quote
Advised a friend to buy Nikon? What are you even doing here? When Pentax has gone out of business and your bodies are just relics and your glass has become useless, I want all the bashers, whiners, complainers and just plain bad photographers to look back at the comments in this thread and realize your contribution to the demise of a company that offers the best bang for buck in the camera world. Why even come here to comment? Just go away.
LOL, that is a very onesided view. Even as a sales person for Pentax one should give an honest advice because, let's say that I am telling someone "buy pentax for sport shooting" and he's not satisfied that would translate in a temporary financial gain from the first purchase followed by a stream of complaints and dissatisfaction that no company would want to have from it's clients.

Really, if you go to a car salesman looking for a fast car for highway and he recommends you a Jeep Cherokee, would you be a satisfied customer?

QuoteQuote:
FACT: Canon and Nikon make better cameras than Pentax, that's why they dominate the market. But I'm a humble guy, so Pentax is good enough for me.
Strongly disagree. The K7 and Kx coupled with some primes make a wonderful combination for someone who's in street shooting/landscapes/portraits. the feeling of the Pentax primes is something unique and one could never find this in other brands.

QuoteQuote:
Fact: Canon and Nikon have bigger and better marketing departments; that's why they dominate the market. No other reason.

NaCl(when was the last time you saw a pentax TV ad? )H2O
Exactly. Investment in advertising is one of the main drivers in the consumer market. The 645D will be a great success but one should never expect them sales in milions like a D90

I don't want to comment on the rigtheousness or wrongness of Pentax marketing decisions but fact is I am very happy with my gear and it gives me the feeling of being special.

Last edited by kytra; 06-30-2010 at 05:10 AM.
06-30-2010, 07:02 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by tarsus Quote
I don't usually get involved in this kind of thread, but bashing Pentax as sport is unfair, counterproductive and what is said is generally untrue. Strongly suggest you Google "Nikon complaints" and "Canon complaints." Oh look, they're not perfect either. I won't counter each and every complaint with the exception of the knock on sports shooting. Pentax does just fine on sports shooting IF YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT! Yes, caps and exclamation point. Sports shooting is a specialized skill that takes patience, knowledge and has a learning curve. I routinely shoot published sports pictures with a Kx and Tamron 18-250. Changing systems does not equal knowing how to do it.
This is the best answer. Skills is the key.

I always switch my AF to OFF or MF being a K1000 user for several years no AF and just metering so I always get the shot that I need.

I do had a Nikon D-80 before I broke it and bought the K-x. I also don't use the AF, Focus LED, and the LCD display of the D-80. It's not that I don't know how to use it but I do not want to depend too much on electronics as I do not want to loose my skills.

My K-x is always on M mode to simulate how I use my K1000. I only switch it to AV mode if my wife is using it as she had a hard time learning how use the exposure meter.

I attended a Nikon and Epson sponsored photography seminar 3 weeks ago as the dealer is my friend. I am the only Pentax user there. All the high end Nikon users are there with some Photo Journalists and Pros.

I can say that I still love my K-x. I want to buy the D-90 before but my budget is only for the K-x. However I tried the D-90 and compared it to my K-x shot and they were just the same. I beat the D-90 in low light. I tried the D-5000 and it was no match to my K-x. I tried several settings and still can't get a good shot compared to the K-x. I tried the D-700 and I can say that I see no difference with my K-x shots.

I also found this Imaging Resource "Comparometer" Digital Camera Image Comparison Page and compared the K-x to the D-90 and D-700 and then this FLASH OF LIGHT: Nikon d90 vs. Pentax Kx...on the Job comparisons

Therefore, it is not the camera most of the time. Maybe it is the user who need to practice and improve on their skills.
06-30-2010, 07:17 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
FACT: Canon and Nikon make better cameras than Pentax, that's why they dominate the market. But I'm a humble guy, so Pentax is good enough for me.
That logic is flawed. What about Leica, Zeiss and Hassy?
06-30-2010, 07:36 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
That logic is flawed. What about Leica, Zeiss and Hassy?
The logic is always flawed when the fanbois start to bray.
06-30-2010, 08:48 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by k54 Quote
This is the best answer. Skills is the key.

compared the K-x to the D-90 and D-700 and then this FLASH OF LIGHT: Nikon d90 vs. Pentax Kx...on the Job comparisons
nice article comparing D90 and kx.
they're both good, both with plusses and minuses.

one more thing to note is that w/ the Kx, there's a backdoor to adjust FF or BF.
and i think w/ the D70,80,90, you need to mechanically turn a hex screw.
i'm sure nikon has software to do this, but nothing is published.

BTW, how's that new President on day 1?

regards,
06-30-2010, 08:56 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Definitely yes. Pentax is not for sports. You can shoot sports with Pentax, however it is much easier to do that with Canikon.
Also SDM lenses reliability is a joke. There's no way I will buy Pentax SDM lens in their current SDM implementation (micro motors suck).
QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
FACT: Canon and Nikon make better cameras than Pentax, that's why they dominate the market. But I'm a humble guy, so Pentax is good enough for me.
They make some better high-end bodies, but you pay.

Nikon zooms are awesome, but you pay, especially for shake reduction. Not so good primes now. Big bodies, big system, terrific AF, good engineering, best warranty, and so on.

Canon has it all including very good primes, but it's all plastic, and the AF, UI, and WR are not up to the Nikon and Pentax. Canon's bodies come from a consumer electronics company, their lenses from an optics company. Poor ergonomics.

Every Canon shooter I know greatly admires the fit and feel of my Pentax gear, which is a notch above Nikon at similar price points.

Canon USM has a very high failure rate. Small, in-lens motors have durability issues across brands. I suspect Nikon's are the best because there was only rare griping about durability the issue compared to Pentax and Canon.

Humility and value are often synonymous. Good traits.
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