Remind me why I should stay with Pentax

wlachan · 06-25-2010, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by JHD

And there's no substitute for skill, luck and timing.

Sport photography is a combination of both imho. Both human skill and the aid of the gears play their important parts. Different sport photography have different set of requirements though.

JohnBee · 06-25-2010, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity?

Indeed!and we've seen shots from point and shoot camera's for a very long time. And so I think there is a great deal of arguing based on a proper understanding of the term "Sports Photography". Which I also think can be likened to general photography, where everyone's a photographer until they actually become a photographer.

SpecialK · 06-25-2010, 06:10 AM

Quote:

But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity?

The lens is normally wide open when focusing, so how does aperture affect autofocus performance?

Blue · 06-25-2010, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

Not to be a smart a__, but that is a common reply when this topic comes up. Somebody shows some really nice sports shots and says something like "Pentax Does Sports"

But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity?

While that may be true, I have seen Canon guys do the same thing. Plus, are you saying that you can only shoot wide open for it to be sports photography?

Unsinkable II · 06-25-2010, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by JHD

And there's no substitute for skill, luck and timing.

Well, the luck and timing are here!

http://thedarkside.hk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puke.jpg

MRRiley · 06-25-2010, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

Not to be a smart a__, but that is a common reply when this topic comes up. Somebody shows some really nice sports shots and says something like "Pentax Does Sports"

But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity?

Ok so I'll say "Photographers can do sports with Pentax"... LOL

I'll be the first to admit that Pentax's AF just ain't up to snuff, at least on the K10D/K20D... This shot shot using single frame mode (no burst crap for me), manual focus (preset at anticipated distance) with no hyperfocal intended, aperture at f13, 1/180 sec pan...

So I will say, IMHO.... skill, timing and luck...

Mike

wlachan · 06-25-2010, 10:41 AM

20mm f13 actually, pretty hyperfocal.

philippe · 06-25-2010, 10:55 AM

If you are not happy with your Pantax gear, then go!
It is better for an unhappy pantax shooter to leave than to stay, a happy photographer is always better, regardless what gear he's shooting with…
But, don't forget, I stay and I know why.

philippe · 06-25-2010, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by mrriley

ok so i'll say "photographers can do sports with pentax"... Lol

i'll be the first to admit that pentax's af just ain't up to snuff, at least on the k10d/k20d... This shot shot using single frame mode (no burst crap for me), manual focus (preset at anticipated distance) with no hyperfocal intended, aperture at about f5.6 or f8 if i recall correctly, 1/180 sec pan...

So i will say, imho.... Skill, timing and luck...

Mike

well done!

Russell-Evans · 06-25-2010, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

This shot shot using single frame mode (no burst crap for me), manual focus (preset at anticipated distance) with no hyperfocal intended, aperture at about f5.6 or f8 if I recall correctly, 1/180 sec pan...

So I will say, IMHO.... skill, timing and luck...

I guess if you are happy just getting one shot, this works. I would like to have this shot, a head shot, a shot of the pedals with shin to see the muscles, a shot of the wheels with a nice blur, ..., but if you're happy with just this one shot ...

Thank you
Russell

MRRiley · 06-25-2010, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by wlachan

20mm f13 actually, pretty hyperfocal.

Really irrelevant anyway. There was no intention to execute a hyperfocal situation. The focus point is precisely where I placed it and the aperture was solely a function of what was needed to prevent too high a shutter speed which would have prevented the panning blur.

MRRiley · 06-25-2010, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Russell-Evans

I guess if you are happy just getting one shot, this works. I would like to have this shot, a head shot, a shot of the pedals with shin to see the muscles, a shot of the wheels with a nice blur, ..., but if you're happy with just this one shot ...

Thank you
Russell

Russell,

Even a pro shooter with a $6K Canon EOS-1Ds or Nikon D3s and another $20K worth of lenses will not get all of the shots you mentioned in a single 1/2 second pass. Each of those shots requires a different technique, shooter positioning and preparation. Tell ya what, I'm shooting another bike race this Sunday and I'll do my best to get the shots you desire... but if I don't it will be MY fault, not my gear's...

Mike

p.s. feel free to check out my motorsports and velosports galleries if you think I am happy with that one shot.

tarsus · 06-25-2010, 12:31 PM

MRRiley. Very nice shot. Your efforts are appreciated. Unfortunately, no matter how good the shot, the Pentax bashers will find some reason, setting, or circumstance to support their positions. In my opinion, the Kx is a lot of camera for the money, the best bang for the buck on the planet. And by the way, Pentax does sports and a lot more. Kx, Tamron 18-250, full zoom, front page of the paper and a finalist in the California Newpaper Publishers Association yearly contest, Spot News category.

mokey · 06-25-2010, 01:01 PM

FYI - as the original reason I started this thread was the death of my SDM lenses...
Pentax Canada has sent me an estimate on the repair of the DA*50-135 in question - they are replacing the motor and/or/same? gear plate A assembly. Charging me for the parts only as a "goodwill gesture" (their words, not mine) because it was out of warranty by 6 months, and I had just had motor replaced on my 16-50 (plus an additional "repair" because it stopped AF after the motor was replaced)
Don't get me wrong, I think Pentax has wonderful glass. I have some incredible sports shots also, but it is slow to track, especially in arena's where I'm working at the 2.8.
I have learned to work around this by really getting to know the camera. My whole point of this thread, was that I was frustrated with high quality lenses breaking down far too early. When your gear is breaking down before it should, a person does question the brand they are using.

Urkeldaedalus · 06-25-2010, 01:08 PM

This thread should be so over by now. But I'll give in to the urge. I think it's 100 percent correct that Pentax needs a new f/2.8 telephoto lens in its lineup with a better and more reliable motor and the next camera could use better tracking-- I don't personally use tracking probably for this reason. This said, it is possible to use Pentax for sports, even if the current lens and camera lineup is not ideal for it. Ultimately, sports are hard to shoot period, which is part of what makes it fun to try.

A few examples of my Pentax sports shots:

K-7 with 50-200

K-7 with Tamron 70-200

K-x with DA* 16-50

(The one below is at ISO4000. Not too shabby IQ considering. I have a few this player dunking but I liked this one better)

06-25-2010, 10:29 AM	#126
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by PentaxPoke Not to be a smart a__, but that is a common reply when this topic comes up. Somebody shows some really nice sports shots and says something like "Pentax Does Sports" But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity? Ok so I'll say "Photographers can do sports with Pentax"... LOL I'll be the first to admit that Pentax's AF just ain't up to snuff, at least on the K10D/K20D... This shot shot using single frame mode (no burst crap for me), manual focus (preset at anticipated distance) with no hyperfocal intended, aperture at f13, 1/180 sec pan... So I will say, IMHO.... skill, timing and luck... Mike Last edited by MRRiley; 06-25-2010 at 12:55 PM. Reason: corrected aperture description

06-25-2010, 12:31 PM	#133
tarsus Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mount Shasta Posts: 185	MRRiley. Very nice shot. Your efforts are appreciated. Unfortunately, no matter how good the shot, the Pentax bashers will find some reason, setting, or circumstance to support their positions. In my opinion, the Kx is a lot of camera for the money, the best bang for the buck on the planet. And by the way, Pentax does sports and a lot more. Kx, Tamron 18-250, full zoom, front page of the paper and a finalist in the California Newpaper Publishers Association yearly contest, Spot News category. Attached Images

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06-25-2010, 04:35 AM	#121
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Originally posted by JHD And there's no substitute for skill, luck and timing. Sport photography is a combination of both imho. Both human skill and the aid of the gears play their important parts. Different sport photography have different set of requirements though.

06-25-2010, 04:35 AM	#122
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by PentaxPoke But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity? Indeed!and we've seen shots from point and shoot camera's for a very long time. And so I think there is a great deal of arguing based on a proper understanding of the term "Sports Photography". Which I also think can be likened to general photography, where everyone's a photographer until they actually become a photographer.

06-25-2010, 06:10 AM	#123
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Quote: But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity? The lens is normally wide open when focusing, so how does aperture affect autofocus performance?

06-25-2010, 09:12 AM	#124
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by PentaxPoke Not to be a smart a__, but that is a common reply when this topic comes up. Somebody shows some really nice sports shots and says something like "Pentax Does Sports" But did you notice in your pics, that the lens focus was hyperfocal? Everything from the foreground to infinity is in focus because of your aperture setting. So is it really much of a strain on the autofocus when your depth of field is infinity? While that may be true, I have seen Canon guys do the same thing. Plus, are you saying that you can only shoot wide open for it to be sports photography?

06-25-2010, 09:59 AM	#125
Unsinkable II Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,352	Originally posted by JHD And there's no substitute for skill, luck and timing. Well, the luck and timing are here! http://thedarkside.hk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puke.jpg

06-25-2010, 10:41 AM	#127
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	20mm f13 actually, pretty hyperfocal.

06-25-2010, 10:55 AM	#128
philippe Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Flanders Fields Posts: 463	If you are not happy with your Pantax gear, then go! It is better for an unhappy pantax shooter to leave than to stay, a happy photographer is always better, regardless what gear he's shooting with… But, don't forget, I stay and I know why.

06-25-2010, 10:57 AM	#129
philippe Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Flanders Fields Posts: 463	Originally posted by mrriley ok so i'll say "photographers can do sports with pentax"... Lol i'll be the first to admit that pentax's af just ain't up to snuff, at least on the k10d/k20d... This shot shot using single frame mode (no burst crap for me), manual focus (preset at anticipated distance) with no hyperfocal intended, aperture at about f5.6 or f8 if i recall correctly, 1/180 sec pan... So i will say, imho.... Skill, timing and luck... Mike well done!

06-25-2010, 11:14 AM	#130
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by MRRiley This shot shot using single frame mode (no burst crap for me), manual focus (preset at anticipated distance) with no hyperfocal intended, aperture at about f5.6 or f8 if I recall correctly, 1/180 sec pan... So I will say, IMHO.... skill, timing and luck... I guess if you are happy just getting one shot, this works. I would like to have this shot, a head shot, a shot of the pedals with shin to see the muscles, a shot of the wheels with a nice blur, ..., but if you're happy with just this one shot ... Thank you Russell

06-25-2010, 11:22 AM	#131
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by wlachan 20mm f13 actually, pretty hyperfocal. Really irrelevant anyway. There was no intention to execute a hyperfocal situation. The focus point is precisely where I placed it and the aperture was solely a function of what was needed to prevent too high a shutter speed which would have prevented the panning blur.

06-25-2010, 11:45 AM	#132
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by Russell-Evans I guess if you are happy just getting one shot, this works. I would like to have this shot, a head shot, a shot of the pedals with shin to see the muscles, a shot of the wheels with a nice blur, ..., but if you're happy with just this one shot ... Thank you Russell Russell, Even a pro shooter with a $6K Canon EOS-1Ds or Nikon D3s and another $20K worth of lenses will not get all of the shots you mentioned in a single 1/2 second pass. Each of those shots requires a different technique, shooter positioning and preparation. Tell ya what, I'm shooting another bike race this Sunday and I'll do my best to get the shots you desire... but if I don't it will be MY fault, not my gear's... Mike p.s. feel free to check out my motorsports and velosports galleries if you think I am happy with that one shot.

06-25-2010, 01:01 PM	#134
mokey Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: BC Posts: 219 Original Poster	FYI - as the original reason I started this thread was the death of my SDM lenses... Pentax Canada has sent me an estimate on the repair of the DA*50-135 in question - they are replacing the motor and/or/same? gear plate A assembly. Charging me for the parts only as a "goodwill gesture" (their words, not mine) because it was out of warranty by 6 months, and I had just had motor replaced on my 16-50 (plus an additional "repair" because it stopped AF after the motor was replaced) Don't get me wrong, I think Pentax has wonderful glass. I have some incredible sports shots also, but it is slow to track, especially in arena's where I'm working at the 2.8. I have learned to work around this by really getting to know the camera. My whole point of this thread, was that I was frustrated with high quality lenses breaking down far too early. When your gear is breaking down before it should, a person does question the brand they are using.

06-25-2010, 01:08 PM	#135
Urkeldaedalus Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,369	This thread should be so over by now. But I'll give in to the urge. I think it's 100 percent correct that Pentax needs a new f/2.8 telephoto lens in its lineup with a better and more reliable motor and the next camera could use better tracking-- I don't personally use tracking probably for this reason. This said, it is possible to use Pentax for sports, even if the current lens and camera lineup is not ideal for it. Ultimately, sports are hard to shoot period, which is part of what makes it fun to try. A few examples of my Pentax sports shots: K-7 with 50-200 K-7 with Tamron 70-200 *K-x with DA 16-50** (The one below is at ISO4000. Not too shabby IQ considering. I have a few this player dunking but I liked this one better)