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06-24-2010, 06:20 PM   #1
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*ist DS to KX

Just a quick one, How much am I going to miss the AF confirmation in the viewfinder if I go to a KX rather than a K7?

Here in Aus I can buy 2 KX's for 1 K7!

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06-24-2010, 07:10 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben78 Quote
Just a quick one, How much am I going to miss the AF confirmation in the viewfinder if I go to a KX rather than a K7?

Here in Aus I can buy 2 KX's for 1 K7!

Ben
That is hard to say. I use it more for assist in mf mode than I do AF. Are you going to keep your DS?
06-24-2010, 07:48 PM   #3
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There's a really good thread over here with lots of feedback The question was regarding a K10 to K-x switch, but the answers are the same :P Here was my response:

Well, I'll weigh in since I upgraded from K10 to Kx. My first and last word (quoted from someone else here on the forums) on that transition is - everyone will tell you that the K10 is twice the camera that the Kx is. That may be true. But I get about four times as many fantastic pictures out of the Kx....and isn't that what we're here to do? Get great shots?

So here's my answers, subject entirely to my own subjective experience:

Yes, the Kx is so much lighter than the K10 there's no comparison. The K10 used to actually give me a neck ache even with a prime on it. The Kx I hardly notice I have on, and with a DA Limited lens on it it's laughably light I feel like I can have it with me all the time - something the K10 with its weight and bulk could never give me.

-AF speed, especially when taking candid portraits

YES ABSOLUTELY. I missed so many shots with the K10 because of slow autofocus issues. Never happens anymore with the Kx.

-High ISO IQ

YOU HAVE NO IDEA - you'll be blown away. I hated to shoot at ISO 800 on my K10, on the Kx I shoot at 3200 or 6400 without blinking an eye and jump to 128,000 if I really must have the shot, knowing I'll still like what I get.

-dynamic range or overall IQ

YK, I have less highlight clipping with the Kx than I did with the K10. I know that that's not supposed to be the way it is, but that's been my experience. Add to that the 99% accurate auto white balance and I'm almost never in the position of salvaging my photos as I did with the K10 on more than one occasion.

-Better out of the box jpegs

Yes, definitely. It's not a huge difference, but it's a noticeable one. Even if all you got was improved white balance in your JPEGs, that's huge


Things I may miss on the K10D:
-The top display. Are the controls on the K7 harder to use?


Reports really vary on this one. I got used to checking the back LCD for the 'top display' information in about a week. I don't even think twice about not having the top display anymore - all the information is still right there, just in a slightly different place. On a similar topic, the switch from 2 edials to 1 didn't even phase me - I used my right index finger on the front edial, now I use my right index finger to hit the button to switch from "front edial" functions to rear edial ones. The kinesthetic experience is different, but the functionality is not. There are a few functions missing from the Kx, but the missing front edial isn't the issue.


-better sealed body. (I do feel okay taking the K10D out in light rain with my cheap A 50mm f1.7 lens. Maybe I will need to be more cautious about using the Kx in light rain or on the beach)

I live in rainy Seattle, so you'd think having a sealed camera would matter to me more than it does :P I never had weather sealed lenses, so I never let my K10 get more than slightly damp. I take the Kx out in the rain and just make sure to keep it under my jacket till I want the shot, or with a ziplock bag over it with just the lens area open. If I was a real foul weather shooter, obviously these strategies wouldn't work. But I'm not interested in being out in the rain when it's pouring, so my camera doesn't need to be that sealed Do I wish the Kx was weather sealed? Sure. It would be some peace of mind. But for the drop in price and weight it's a no-brainer for me.

Everything I was in the habit of doing on my K10 I do on my Kx. The couple of specialized functions available on the K10 that are missing from the Kx I didn't happen to use - so that worked great for me The Kx is so much more than an entry level DSLR, it really should be given credit for its capabilities and not detracted simply because of who it's being marketed towards.

I almost never miss a shot I want with the Kx. The K10 couldn't give me that. At what point do you say which is the better camera?
06-24-2010, 10:42 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben78 Quote
Just a quick one, How much am I going to miss the AF confirmation in the viewfinder if I go to a KX rather than a K7?
You *get* focus confirmation with the Kx. The only thing missing is the indicator of *which* focus point was used. I personally only use the center point, so I turned my indicator off years ago and haven't missed it - I don't need a red light to tell me the focus confirmation is using the center. If you're letting the camera choose for you, I'd recommend not doing that any more, but if you must, then try turning off the indicator on your DS to see for yourself how much it bothers you to have the camera not tell you where it focused. I don't see why that info would be very useful, since it's not like there was going to be anything you could do about it if the camera didn't choose what you wanted - and in any case, it's usually obvious enough just by looking at the image in the viewfinder. but if you're accustomed to selecting focus points yourself, doing so without the indicators in the viewfinder might be a drag (although they are on the LCD). Easiest thing to test would be to see how you would like simply not using that mode. Or you could try taking your eye from the viewfinder every time you change points to see how that would feel.

06-25-2010, 01:04 AM   #5
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Those little red lights are easy to forget.
I used to have K100, GX20 and now K10 + K-x.
I use K10 my wife K-x. Frankly, between DS and K-x I'd probably choose K-x. Your focus gets confirmed by the hexagon, and you can choose the AF points if you want/need it's just not as straightforward.
Between K10 and K-x... K10 all the way!
06-25-2010, 02:24 AM   #6
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Peter, you and I are biased similarly.
The K10D is a fine old flagship model that still performs well comparatively - other than AF speed and high ISO performance, it's got the works and does it all quite effectively IMO.
I'd even go K20D if you aren't into long exposures (>15sec) since its CMOS sensor does struggle with noise control for extra long exposures, whereas the K10D's CCD sensor manages long exposures beautifully.
06-25-2010, 08:28 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
You *get* focus confirmation with the Kx. The only thing missing is the indicator of *which* focus point was used. I personally only use the center point, so I turned my indicator off years ago and haven't missed it - I don't need a red light to tell me the focus confirmation is using the center. If you're letting the camera choose for you, I'd recommend not doing that any more, but if you must, then try turning off the indicator on your DS to see for yourself how much it bothers you to have the camera not tell you where it focused. I don't see why that info would be very useful, since it's not like there was going to be anything you could do about it if the camera didn't choose what you wanted - and in any case, it's usually obvious enough just by looking at the image in the viewfinder. but if you're accustomed to selecting focus points yourself, doing so without the indicators in the viewfinder might be a drag (although they are on the LCD). Easiest thing to test would be to see how you would like simply not using that mode. Or you could try taking your eye from the viewfinder every time you change points to see how that would feel.
This is an "opinion" that has been debated on these Forums for years.

I'm just the opposite - I find the red focus indicator useful. To reiterate, it's not focus confirmation, it's just focus lock and focus confirmation is still the green hexagon. It's center-only with MF.

I can focus faster until I see the red dot, slow down until I see the green hex, shoot. The red indicator can act as a "green hex warning" to you. I also find it helpful with manual focusing with macro shots. The only down side is the "red spot" is bigger than it appears so it isn't always reliable. However, it is a hell of a lot more reliable than NONE.
06-25-2010, 08:38 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ecaterin Quote
Well, I'll weigh in since I upgraded from K10 to Kx. My first and last word (quoted from someone else here on the forums) on that transition is - everyone will tell you that the K10 is twice the camera that the Kx is. That may be true. But I get about four times as many fantastic pictures out of the Kx....and isn't that what we're here to do? Get great shots?
My experience as well coming from a K20D. I don't find it a problem at all. I'm a center focus and recompose person and I prefer not to have the display getting in the way. Point, beep, recompose, fire. I don't regret selling my K20D for a 'downgrade'. The High ISO performance is like having a new group of faster lenses.

06-25-2010, 08:44 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by VaughnA Quote
My experience as well coming from a K20D. I don't find it a problem at all. I'm a center focus and recompose person and I prefer not to have the display getting in the way. Point, beep, recompose, fire. I don't regret selling my K20D for a 'downgrade'. The High ISO performance is like having a new group of faster lenses.
Are you guys shooting mainly jpgs?
06-25-2010, 08:53 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Are you guys shooting mainly jpgs?
Mostly Raw, I'll use Raw+Jpeg if I'm somewhere like my family reunion where I'll need to give out photos or transfer to someone else since they can't usually use the raws.
06-25-2010, 08:59 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by VaughnA Quote
Mostly Raw, I'll use Raw+Jpeg if I'm somewhere like my family reunion where I'll need to give out photos or transfer to someone else since they can't usually use the raws.
I asked because I have been considering getting a K-x towards the end of its run to use sort of like a P&S but mainly for jpgs depending how good it is with in camera jpgs.
06-25-2010, 09:32 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I asked because I have been considering getting a K-x towards the end of its run to use sort of like a P&S but mainly for jpgs depending how good it is with in camera jpgs.
Even though I use raw the jpegs are noticably better than the ones I got from the K20D. In camera is excellent. I'll sometimes just work with the Jpeg in aperture instead of the raw if I need to just crop or do minor adjustments. I think that the K-x and a 40 pancake would be a great P&S type camera.
06-25-2010, 04:32 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I'm just the opposite - I find the red focus indicator useful. To reiterate, it's not focus confirmation, it's just focus lock and focus confirmation is still the green hexagon. It's center-only with MF.

I can focus faster until I see the red dot, slow down until I see the green hex, shoot. The red indicator can act as a "green hex warning" to you.
FWIW, on a whim (probably to test some claim made in one of these threads) I turned my indicator back on a few weeks ago and have left it that way. Still center point only. While I've never consciously done what you describe, I can kind of see how it could be useful in that way and may give that a shot - thanks for the suggestion. But I also do find that flashing light a bit distracting. I'm someone who dislikes split prism screens for the same reason, and prefer the image display on my rear LCD to be "clean" by default.

I'd still say the bottom line is that it's going to be most significant as an issue for folks who use the selectable focus points and are unwilling to change to center point only. Still not sure where the OP falls here.
06-26-2010, 03:30 AM   #14
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Thanks for all thoughts.

Marc, I mostly use the center point but often change it around to better suit the subject. Yes, I do rely on images 'appearing' focussed in the viewfinder too.

I also have an old Z10 film body that doesn't have the points and I do find it hard to cope with. Might just wait til I have a bit more cash and go K7.
06-26-2010, 05:49 AM   #15
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I can tell you I had a K-10 and still own a couple of DS's

I love the DS, thought it was the cats meow, until I got the KX. The KX blows the DS away in low light situations and the AF is light years ahead.

My K10D was just horrible in low light and I sold it, now have a K20D, which IMHO is a great camera and has very good high ISO ability, but not as good as the KX

I might add I also have the K200D and while the sensor may be the same as the K10D it is somehow much improved, although not a super high ISO camera, but in a pinch you'll be fine. I keep that camera's ISO at ~ 200, as it is my walk around shooting buildings and stuff camera. I do on occasion shoot it at ISO ~800 but rarely.


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