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06-28-2010, 07:08 PM   #1
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k10d vs k20d

in the comparison review, it looks like the k20 and k7 offer a feature not offered on the k10

that feature is Front/Back focus corr

anyone have any feelings for how valuable that feature is?

i have a k200d and a k100d. ive considered giving the k100d to my sister and buying a used k10d to replace it. i have been very happy with both the k100d and the k200d.

06-28-2010, 07:11 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by mnseawa Quote
in the comparison review, it looks like the k20 and k7 offer a feature not offered on the k10

that feature is Front/Back focus corr

anyone have any feelings for how valuable that feature is?

i have a k200d and a k100d. ive considered giving the k100d to my sister and buying a used k10d to replace it. i have been very happy with both the k100d and the k200d.
If you dont have lenses that needs adjustment, it's worthless.

If you do, it suddenly becomes priceless... IINM lens adjustment is not perfect though. Some lenses BF / FF at different values of the aperture or different zoom values. I've heard this mostly from Third Party lenses though.

And just FYI, K10d and k100d also has debug mode that will allow you to adjust AF, but not to specific lenses (have to readjust everytime you change lenses).

That said, with the current price I'd go for the K7 if you're considering K20D as they are in very similar price bracket now when bought new.
06-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #3
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Focus correction is really valuable, assuming you use autofocus. Also, if you use lenses with a wide aperture, you will find it even more necessary. I got a new K20 recently and the 50/1.4 and 35/2.0 were pretty impossible to use with that body until I got the focus dialed in just right.
06-29-2010, 04:47 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
If you do, it suddenly becomes priceless... IINM lens adjustment is not perfect though. Some lenses BF / FF at different values of the aperture or different zoom values. I've heard this mostly from Third Party lenses though.
Pretty much to the point

I haven't needed it yet, but a friend w/ a Canon XTi has wished she had it...

06-29-2010, 05:30 AM   #5
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I have both the K20 and the K10. I thought I would find the feature much more valuable than I did. I did use the debug feature to correct an overall focus issue on my K10d. After doing that, I found the actual difference between lenses was very slight and visible only when pixel peeping at wide apertures. I went from shooting the K20d, on which I had made some adjustments for several lenses, to shooting the K-x a lot, and I can't really see a difference in my actual photos with the same lenses.

Having the adjustment feature is only the beginning. You also have to have a reliable setup for doing the focus adjustments and some time you want to spend. At what distance will you adjust and at what focal length on your zooms? Can you rely on the point of focus indicator?

This is, of course, one person's opinion, and it may sound contradictory, but

1) This feature should be on every camera, because it is software and the latent capability is there. The cost to add an interface for the user should not be much. Pentax will do it for you for a certain number of their lenses even on cameras without the feature; however,

2) It is not significant to me in very many situations. The kinds of adjustments we are usually talking about are small, and in the real world, negated by the fact that we can't reliably place the point of autofocus on a three-dimensional object with that much precision. If I need to focus that critically at F/2 or under, I'll use mf. It is the only way I will know that I am locked on the pupil instead of the eyebrow or the nose, etc. If I had a Pentax lens that consistently failed to focus adequately on a brick wall, I'd send it in with the camera for adjustment.
06-29-2010, 08:52 AM   #6
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In comparing the K10 and K20 there are other things aside from th efocus adjustment that are substantially different.

The sensor cmos vs ccd and also 10 vs 14mp

next the K20 has EV adjustment in manual the k10 d does not, that is a big incinvenience since some lenses exhibit a generall offset in exposure and you have to continually re-adjust unnecessairly.
06-29-2010, 08:55 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
In comparing the K10 and K20 there are other things aside from th efocus adjustment that are substantially different.

The sensor cmos vs ccd and also 10 vs 14mp

next the K20 has EV adjustment in manual the k10 d does not, that is a big incinvenience since some lenses exhibit a generall offset in exposure and you have to continually re-adjust unnecessairly.
To add to that, k20d also has slightly better autofocus and 1 stop better at High ISO

And the exposure compensation thing that Lowell mentioned IIRC also works with P-TTL Flash, allowing you to compensate for its tendency to underexpose.
06-29-2010, 09:13 AM   #8
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I had both and I found out that the K20D is a little bit better than the K10D. This feature is priceless if you have a need for it. Besides, a good used K20D is around $200 more than a used K10D. it is worth the investment.

06-29-2010, 07:56 PM   #9
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I had a K100D for over a year and loved it. Bought the K10D right before the K20D came out and was underwhelmed with the image quality above ISO 400. I liked the ergonomics, but IQ wasn't that great to me. I kept it about 3 months and bought the K20D when it came out. I'd had that camera for the past 2.5 years (probably as long as I've owned and used any camera). High ISO is great, pixel mapping, dust mapping, AF adjustment are all features that I've used and enjoyed on the K20D. The AF adjustment on my Bigma made a noticable difference.

I've seen some people work magic with a K10D. I wasn't one of them. I really love my K20D, though.
06-29-2010, 08:32 PM   #10
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If you already have the K200D and don't really need the adjustment, I'd stick with it (I feel the feature set is too similar to get). If you NEED another body, skip the K20D and step up to a K-7 (like others have said)
06-29-2010, 09:02 PM   #11
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I think the only feature that the K10D has that the K20D doesn't is slightly better long exposure at low ISO - more than 10 minutes. If you have multiple lenses the back/front focus adjustment on the K20D is gold. Both my Pentax 50mm and 100mm primes are off a tiny bit. For low aperture shooting that difference is vital for exact focus. Third party lenses from Tamron and Sigma can be significantly less expensive than their Pentax equivalents. Both are known for front/back focus errors. Shooting available light the K20D has almost a 2 stop ISO advantage over the K10D. Auto focus is also faster and more accurate with the K20D. Though it's even better still with the K7.
06-30-2010, 04:25 AM   #12
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I think the K7/K20 are better if you shoot much at isos of over 400. Below that, the K10 really does rule. I was frustrated with the K10. It really was a step back from the K100 as far as high iso shooting ability.

I know a lot of people keep the K10 for its ability to do long exposures and low iso macro shots.

As far as the auto focus adjustment feature, it is hard to say how much you would benefit from it. I have 7 lenses (I think) and the only one that needs auto focus adjustment is my DA 70. It didn't require much, but it did turn it from looking a little soft wide open to being tack sharp wide open. Its the sort of thing I probably wouldn't have even noticed when stopped down a little bit, but it does make the lens more useful.
06-30-2010, 02:21 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by mysticcowboy Quote
I think the only feature that the K10D has that the K20D doesn't is slightly better long exposure at low ISO - more than 10 minutes
That's a good mention...if you shoot star trails or fireworks or anything at ISO100, the K10D does better (less noise and the NR frame isn't mandatory like it is on the K20D)...
We had a member on PF that griped for nearly a year before switching off the K20D because of the long exposure NR frame issue (can't be turned off on the K20D/K7 because the Samsung sensor is inherently randomly noisy)...
06-30-2010, 02:47 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by mnseawa Quote
in the comparison review, it looks like the k20 and k7 offer a feature not offered on the k10

that feature is Front/Back focus corr

anyone have any feelings for how valuable that feature is?

i have a k200d and a k100d. ive considered giving the k100d to my sister and buying a used k10d to replace it. i have been very happy with both the k100d and the k200d.
The K10d is a nice camera (I'm on my third one, though it doesn't get used very much) but there are more reasons than AF adjustment to consider the K20d. The focus on the 20 is faster and more reliable in my experience than the K10d. The sensor stays cleaner (which means the anti-static coatings and dust shaker works better). For the occasions where there IS dust on the sensor, it can be mapped to show you exactly where it is (making it easier to clean).

The corrections are minimal and in my experience do more to throw a given lens Out of focus than correct it. I've found that lenses front or back focusing, are better replaced than in camera corrected. That isn't to say that it isn't useful for a tweak here and there but it turned out to be the least used feature on my K20d (and on the K7).

06-30-2010, 02:57 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mnseawa Quote
i have a k200d and a k100d. ive considered giving the k100d to my sister and buying a used k10d to replace it. i have been very happy with both the k100d and the k200d.
My advice would be to not buy a K10 or K20 since you already have the K200. I would wait until September when the two new models are announced and then get one of those.
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