Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-17-2010, 03:17 PM   #196
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kobe/japan
Posts: 510
For pentax to give full frame i can only see one hurdle which is inbody-stabilization.
When Sony decided to work on full frame this was one of the thing that people said that is impossible to do. But in the end sony engineers did pull it off.

Would pentax also pull it off or would they go without it. There might be few other challenges and probably this was the reason they might have decided that it was not worth the effort.

At this moment in time, pentax has lot more worry. whether to spend resources on full frame or whether to spend effort on EVIL type concept. With full frame they are bit late and they probably can continue the way things are. But with EVIL they are getting behind every week they are late.

Few posts ago someone was dishing sony for being all over the place , but if you carefully think they have really worked hard to prepare for future. (even though it meant looking like not caring for customers for a while).

Here are few things and comparisons

- They worked and finished full frame in two years of taking over from minolta. Pentax continued and tried to strengthen APC sector. (The present).

- They delayed a700 replacement but were working on NEX concept. (the future).

- They delayed video in their dslrs, but have given very good option in their latest video related release on e-mount.

Sometimes i wish if pentax were to do all these things. We would have lots of options now.

Imagine k-mount full frame. DSLRS with both types of liveviews (with swivel lcds) , and EVIL type options for those who want.

All is not lost pentax could still do great but they have to show at least some interest somewhere other than APC.

07-17-2010, 04:11 PM   #197
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
At this moment in time, pentax has lot more worry. whether to spend resources on full frame or whether to spend effort on EVIL type concept.
This question easily comes to mind. I.e., if we (Pentax) can only do one thing at a time, should it be FF or SLD?

But that's the wrong question!

You cannot dance on every party. Pentax is already dancing on the SLR party, with competitors they can withstand (Canon and Nikon). And to keep dancing, they need FF. It's really that simple. And the enthusiast SLR market won't implode now. Fueled by FF, it will survive a couple more years.

Once they did that, they can take their followers over to the much harder SLD party (against giants like Sony, Panasonic and Samsung -- btw, a NEX-VG10 (or NEX-7) will be much harder to compete with than a NEX-5). Of course, only if Pentax manages to provide a credible migration path which would be their unique selling point in that hot ball room.

But to leave the SLR party now to dance on the SLD floor would mean immediate suicide for Pentax. It may even mean suicide for Olympus which were first to market. Time will tell.

Last edited by falconeye; 07-17-2010 at 04:18 PM.
07-18-2010, 12:15 AM   #198
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,299
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
If Pentax does not at least announce at Photokina that they'll release an FF camera in 2010 or 2011 then the damage (in lost user base migrating elsewhere) will be larger than the damage due to users withholding their purchase decision.....
And to keep dancing, they need FF. It's really that simple.
No, I don't see that at all. Right now, FF market is still minuscule.
The demand for FF is not high, even in this forum, as shown in previous polls. If and when FF drops to sub-$1500 or sub-$1300 level, the market may start growing. Then, Pentax would consider if it is worth their while competing in that segment. I simply don't see any sound business reason to enter the risky FF market at its current state.
07-18-2010, 12:49 AM   #199
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
No, I don't see that at all. Right now, FF market is still minuscule.
The demand for FF is not high, even in this forum, as shown in previous polls. If and when FF drops to sub-$1500 or sub-$1300 level, the market may start growing. Then, Pentax would consider if it is worth their while competing in that segment. I simply don't see any sound business reason to enter the risky FF market at its current state.
I dunno which poll you are refering to, but it would be interesting to see a poll like what you are saying. and which market are you refering to? you must remember that there are market categories as well. if you are referring to the basic dslr consumer market, Pentax met that demand by introducing the entry level $500 dslr. midrange would be the K-7, and certainly Pentax doesn't have a semi/pro to offer above the K-7 with a price point above the $1500 premium. and you don't expect all of the semi/pro category would readily shell out $9,000 on the 645D either. what do you think is the purpose of Pentax for releasing the 645D which has surely has a much smaller market compared to people that are buying a Leica, APS-H and FF dslr with a premium ranging from $1,800-$5,000 ? from this, the 645D gamble does not or is not even sounder business.

I'm not sure which risk is there at building a Pentax FF since CANIKONY have something to offer and are doing just fine with it and satisfying the needs of the semi/pro market. Pentax has already competed at the entry and midrange level, so I dunno what is the reason why would they still pull back at offering something at another market category?

if it's funding, I'm pretty sure HOYA has a lot of it. Pentax is no longer Pentax itself. it got itself a financier.

I'm sure that people that are in the semi/pro category are more than willing to pay more than $1500 Pentax FF dlsr. that is the target market of Pentax and not the entry level budget conscious/constraint market. also, the people that made the switch or had 2 or 3 systems, surely would had not only paid $1,300 just to get a FF dslr. that alone speaks that budget is not an issue when it comes to demand for a Pentax FF dslr. I myself would not even whine about a Pentax FF dslr being sold at $2,500. what you are saying about a $1,300 Pentax FF dlsr is rather trying to influence the FF market to go dirt cheap and forcing the other players to do the same thing inorder to protect their niche market.


Last edited by Pentaxor; 07-18-2010 at 12:58 AM.
07-18-2010, 05:53 AM   #200
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kobe/japan
Posts: 510
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
No, I don't see that at all. Right now, FF market is still minuscule.
The demand for FF is not high, even in this forum, as shown in previous polls. If and when FF drops to sub-$1500 or sub-$1300 level, the market may start growing. Then, Pentax would consider if it is worth their while competing in that segment. I simply don't see any sound business reason to enter the risky FF market at its current state.
it is really very difficult to know whether there is market for full frame pentax dslrs or not. The reason is even if you take any poll on this forum this forum does not even represent 1 % of pentax users.

Further since there were many pentax film camera owners so it is not so worng to believe any such guy might be interested in it.

From consumer's point i would like more options, i may not by right now but i definitely be interested in buying one as soon as i can justify it.
07-18-2010, 06:50 AM   #201
Pentaxian
Pål Jensen's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,139
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
No, I don't see that at all. Right now, FF market is still minuscule.
The demand for FF is not high, even in this forum, as shown in previous polls. If and when FF drops to sub-$1500 or sub-$1300 level, the market may start growing. Then, Pentax would consider if it is worth their while competing in that segment. I simply don't see any sound business reason to enter the risky FF market at its current state.
Yes but Pentax marketshare as a whole is minuscule. The interesting question is whether a Pentax FF will take a major share of Pentax high end sales? I think it will. I also think it might make the Pentax K-mount system seem more complete and desirable and therefore help sales of lesser bodies and lenses.
The lens question is exagregated; there are several FF lenses already in the line up. FF lenses works great for APS sensors as well. New lenses are therefore not FF only...
07-18-2010, 09:24 AM   #202
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,913
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
if it's funding, I'm pretty sure HOYA has a lot of it. Pentax is no longer Pentax itself. it got itself a financier.
Hoya is in hock to their eyeballs. not just from the Pentax buy but for other biz decisions in the deflationary Japanese market. Two commercial banks and a hedge fund have controlling, preferred share interests. They likely have substantial equity returns guaranteed per quarter.

Hoya is *not* a deep-pockets, financially healthy company. If something does not make money on par, it will likely be cancelled.
07-18-2010, 10:30 AM   #203
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Hoya is in hock to their eyeballs. not just from the Pentax buy but for other biz decisions in the deflationary Japanese market. Two commercial banks and a hedge fund have controlling, preferred share interests. They likely have substantial equity returns guaranteed per quarter.

Hoya is *not* a deep-pockets, financially healthy company. If something does not make money on par, it will likely be cancelled.
they did sponsor in delivering a $9,000 MF camera by which there is no market statistics yet that it would do good business. so I can't understand why so tentative in building and selling a camera less than that price premium.

07-18-2010, 10:42 AM   #204
Pentaxian
Pål Jensen's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,139
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
they did sponsor in delivering a $9,000 MF camera by which there is no market statistics yet that it would do good business. so I can't understand why so tentative in building and selling a camera less than that price premium.
I believe they said a couple of years ago (if not more) that they would release MF Digital first, then FF....
07-18-2010, 11:14 AM   #205
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I believe they said a couple of years ago (if not more) that they would release MF Digital first, then FF....
I think it was 5 years ago when they talked about MF, but I never heard that they had a plan of doing FF afterwards. I hope that succeeding statement is true. but anyways, I could only assume the reason for the 5 year delay has got to do something with Pentax finances as it was virtually on it's own and doesnt have the sufficient resources to support the project. this is possibly the reason why Pentax sold some of it's shares and technology to Samsung but I would guess it never took off possibly because Samsung is tentative of such a project and Pentax looked for another player that could support their finances, thereby the merger with HOYA.
07-18-2010, 02:26 PM   #206
Pentaxian
TaoMaas's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,196
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I dunno which poll you are refering to, but it would be interesting to see a poll like what you are saying. and which market are you refering to?
I think he may be talking about the recent polls on this forum. Look around pages 7-8 in this section and you'll find them. A quick check showed that about 30+ people who were willing to wait no longer than 2011 for a FF camera or who had already left for another brand. In contrast, 183 people said that if they left Pentax it wouldn't be for the lack of a FF camera or else they had no intention of leaving Pentax, FF or not. Within my own camera club, FF never even comes up as a topic of discussion that I've been aware of. And it certainly never arises among the few Pentax users. There's only 3 Pentax DSLR users, btw...and two are still shooting with an *ist D. There used to be one other user, but he left because he wanted more exotic lenses. Barrng some revolutionary camera development, what kind of market share could Pentax reasonably expect to capture with a FF DSLR? It should be fairly easy to calculate. All we need to do is look at what percentage of Canon, Nikon, and Sony's market share is made up of their FF cameras, then take Pentax's DSLR sales and figure a similar percentage. As someone already pointed out, Pentax's market share is already pretty miniscule, so it would be reasonable to assume that their FF sales would be micro-miniscule. As I see it, the 645D is a whole other animal because it's aimed at a market where it's costs can be written off as a business expense. That makes it much more affordable than it might be for a simple hobbyist.
07-18-2010, 03:26 PM   #207
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,913
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
they did sponsor in delivering a $9,000 MF camera by which there is no market statistics yet that it would do good business. so I can't understand why so tentative in building and selling a camera less than that price premium.
There has always been a solid MF market willing to pay a higher premium for this equipment. As Hassy, Mamiya, and Leica prove, you can be less than 1% on the market share list (combined) and make money on this venture (well...Leica is a charity case, but they get away with extremely high prices).
07-18-2010, 03:51 PM   #208
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Leica is a charity case
The Leica business year ending March 2010 had €158.2 million turnover, €7.4 million earnings before interst and taxes (EBIT) and €3.2 million win.

If this is charity, where can I apply for my own charity case?


BTW, Leica has only one APS-C product and it's launch price was the same as Pentax' K-7

Last edited by falconeye; 07-18-2010 at 03:58 PM.
07-18-2010, 05:10 PM   #209
Veteran Member
creampuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,955
Leica probably makes more money from licensing its name on the lenses of Panasonic cameras that rolls out from factories in Japan and China.
07-18-2010, 05:11 PM   #210
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
well, let's just say that some people need a fullframe line. and Pentax have to meet that demand.

as far as I can tell, there is a lot more uproar on the demand for a fullframe rather than an EVIL camera. an EVIL camera may be the next step and is somehow the talk of the town right now. but there hasn't been that much of an urgent need or request from the forum members to have one asap.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
body, camera, dslr, ff, glass, pentax, photography, release
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tamron no longer releasing new lenses for Pentax? Mike.P® Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 3 03-12-2010 09:06 AM
Nikon releasing 24mm 1.4 RonMexico Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 0 02-09-2010 07:56 PM
Sigma releasing 24-70mm F2.8 for Pentax? yakiniku Pentax News and Rumors 9 04-14-2009 10:17 AM
Planning to buy an old Pentax dbmayur Pentax Film SLR Discussion 18 04-11-2009 11:20 AM
Official: New DSLR Body is Coming; Full Frame Model is Under Planning! RiceHigh Pentax News and Rumors 78 08-04-2008 06:18 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:51 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top