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07-03-2010, 06:13 AM   #16
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Do what I did I went from Canon to Pentax:

I spent 500 bucks on a K-X and the pentax K mount> M42 adapter , then spend 200 bucks on vintage glass, best money I have ever spent on photography

Ive posted some shots in the takumar club and the soviet lenses if you want to see whats possible ( and I am in no way a pro, just an avid amateur)

07-03-2010, 10:47 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by dude163 Quote
Do what I did I went from Canon to Pentax:

I spent 500 bucks on a K-X and the pentax K mount> M42 adapter , then spend 200 bucks on vintage glass, best money I have ever spent on photography

Ive posted some shots in the takumar club and the soviet lenses if you want to see whats possible ( and I am in no way a pro, just an avid amateur)
yeah vintage glass is definitely the way to go
i'm really not sure about whether i'm going to stay with pentax or jump over to a canon 5d- so I don't want to invest heavily in k mount glass so i buy pentax m lenses, if I stick with pentax i'll get the 50-135, the 16-50 and a few ltd's and still use the m's for fun
hell maybe i'd mount the m's on the 5d

investing in 'fast glass' is not so much of an issue anymore (as I said earlier), but sharp glass is worth the investment
07-04-2010, 07:34 AM   #18
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I've the *1st D, a K200D, and two K20Ds, and sometimes I feel that my sharpest images came from the *1st D. True, the ability to view a photo taken from the *1st via its small LCD is a drag, but sometimes I think I should try using it again. On the other hand, if I did, perhaps I'd find more reason to love the K20s.

But to the point: I feel a good lens will make whatever body one uses better.
07-04-2010, 12:20 PM   #19
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I suspect that if you could blew up your 6MP *istD images as large as you presumably do the 10MP and 14MP images, you'd not be quite as impressed with it's sharpness relative to the others.

07-04-2010, 12:28 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I suspect that if you could blew up your 6MP *istD images as large as you presumably do the 10MP and 14MP images, you'd not be quite as impressed with it's sharpness relative to the others.
Perhaps. If I reduce the 10 and 14 meg ones down to the equivalent 6-meg size, the sharpness would compare.

I mean, has the sensor size changed at all with the new bodies, or is it the same-size sensor tweaked for larger images?

But let me add that I truly appreciate the newer version cameras too. I don't miss cleaning the dead pixels from *1st D photos.

Last edited by CGottfried; 07-04-2010 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Additional thought.
07-04-2010, 01:23 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I suspect that if you could blew up your 6MP *istD images as large as you presumably do the 10MP and 14MP images, you'd not be quite as impressed with it's sharpness relative to the others.
Most people do not regularly print poster-sized images. Those who need gallery prints should get the largest sensor and highest MP possible. For the rest 6MP is plenty -- good enough for A3 and larger, from my experience.
07-04-2010, 02:02 PM   #22
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well if you need it, newer bodies supposedly have reduced shutter lag.
07-05-2010, 09:00 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Most people do not regularly print poster-sized images. Those who need gallery prints should get the largest sensor and highest MP possible. For the rest 6MP is plenty -- good enough for A3 and larger, from my experience.
Oh, of course. I didn't mean the 6MP wasn't good - just that the phenomenon I described usually explains why some people at first think the images from a 6MP camera look *better* than those from a higher resolution camera. If you normalize the comparison, that wouldn't normally be the case. But indeed, the 6MP images will usually be good enough.

And no, the sensor size hasn't changed on any of the Pentax DSLR's. Well, conceivably by a fraction of a millimeter, but they are all "APS-C".

07-05-2010, 09:13 AM   #24
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Oh yes, Marc, I know you know. :-)

Just posting stuff for the benefit of others who are reading along and might be swayed by some of the misinformation on other sites.

I print 6x4" photos from downsized Flickr images (800 pixels) and they look perfect.
07-05-2010, 09:20 AM   #25
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But, of course, while APS-C sensor size is the same, sensor technology has improved with time. That, combined with improved image-processing algorithms, means better high-ISO performance, lower noise, as well as faster and more-accurate auto-focus. As a result, the newer body is generally more desirable if one has the option. So, my vote for the OP is to go with the K-x if he can. If not, then go for the newest body he can afford. To quote the OP:

"I just want the camera to deliver crisp sharp images and to work quickly - the rest will be about composition."

Given this priority, I would again recommend the K-x. That doesn't mean one can't get good results with older cameras, but I believe it is the best option for him at this time.
07-05-2010, 11:37 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Clark is spot on IMO. Everytime i hear "fast lens" it makes me cringe. Sure, one can dial up to 1.4, 1.8, 2, 2.8, when things get darkish, but its at the cost of DOF and it also puts a demand on the camera to get an accurate focus. With a large DOF, its not so important to get high AF focus, just to get close as the DOF will cover it.

After i shifted to small apertures, and bumping my aperture to F4 ISO to 3200 on my K20 compared to F2.8 and 1600, i got way more keepers in the live theatre shooting that i do. There's been at least 2 articles in popular magazines in the last 12 months about how fast iso bodies like the D3 are changing the way pros work, e.g. buying a F4 telescopic lens instead of renting an F2.8 lens.

"slow" glass isn't slow when you boost iso :-)
There is some truth to that, however lens are not at their best wide open. A F2.8 lens set at F4 will be noticeably sharper than a F4 lens at F4. This is the reason I like fast lens - to step down a bit and still have a fast aperture.

Also, shallow DOF is one of the main reasons to use a DSLR - a good portrait with background separation simply cannot be achieved with a P&S or even 4/3rds.
07-06-2010, 08:29 AM   #27
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Just to keep the record straight, because of the lack of SDM support, the K100d is far cheaper than any other camera with SR. KEH regularly has these bodies for around $200. That is not even a particularly expensive P&S these days. If you do follow the strategy proposed by the OP, you do not have much stranded investment in the camera body should you later decide to upgrade or decide this hobby is not for you. I'd like not to lose the SDM, but exactly one out of the 20 PK lenses I own would be affected.

The philosophy of spending less for the body is not a film philosophy in my opinion, but a realistic computer philosophy. I recognize that the bodies are, like other computers, almost disposable after 3-4 years, while the value of a great lens goes on indefinitely. If I am investing significant bucks to start an avocation, then it makes sense to sink that money where I could get it out.

As Robin pointed out, 6mp blows up nicely to A3, and any enlargement bigger than that will look good on a denser sensor only if the lens and technique are excellent. It is also twice the resolution of most HDTV, so your photos look very nice as a slideshow. I did recently enjoy zooming in on my 12mp K-x/DA Ltd photos for friends on a big HD screen, but again, without that excellent prime glass, much of the effect would be lost.

I think the approach suggested by the OP makes some sense, even now for someone starting up.
07-07-2010, 10:42 AM   #28
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I've had some great times with my K10D, so would definitely recommend it if you are trying to save a little money, but it is definitely weak at higher ISOs. It tops out at 1600, which is quite noisy. Oddly, my K100D tops out at 3200, which I want to say is less noisy than the 10's 1600. I've thought about selling the K100D a few times, but always end up hanging onto it just in case I need to do something low light... That said, the K100D doesn't work with the DA* lenses, so if you are planning to invest heavily in glass, you probably want a K100D Super or later.
07-07-2010, 12:04 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Regardless of price, I wouldn't pick anything older than the K100D Super, because there is no point spending money on a body that doesn't have SDM support (or even SR, in the case of *ist series). I personally think any of the newer cameras are enough of an improvement over the K100D Super to not consider that. K10D is a nice body if like them relatively large and heavy, but IQ won't necessarily match the newer bodies for the most part, so there's a tradeoff. Mostly, I'd be thinking K20D for high end but larger/heavier bodies that can be had cheaper than the K-7, or K-x for small/light but cheap bodies. I don't think any other body would be enough cheaper than either of these K-x to be worth what you sacrifice, personally. Unless you want both weather sealing and relatively smaller/lighter, in which case the K200D could be worth seeking out. Some might recommend the original *stD or DS as kind of a dark horse - no SDM or SR, but a better viewfinder than similarly small cameras, and TTL support if that matters to you (doesn't to me - I have no problems with PTTL or autoflash on the rare occasions I use flash at all).
The one major exception to this would be people with an m42 lens collection. The ttl support can be a big deal with m42 lenses or rather the lack of it. Certainly its possible to get by without and that is what I do. However, there have been times that I wished I had ttl capability. That would be my 1 exception to going to an older body. The negative side to that is the 6 mp sensors.
07-07-2010, 03:06 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by choffman Quote
That said, the K100D doesn't work with the DA* lenses, so if you are planning to invest heavily in glass, you probably want a K100D Super or later.
Only if that glass is SDM. If you will be dropping the bucks for SDM lenses, then you can spare the extra $100 to get the K100d super or K10d.
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