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11-15-2011, 07:42 PM   #61
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I may have made an error in my original question.
Rather than Adams settings which was simply changing the level at which nr comes into effect if you change the key settings as mentioned above and then have to dial.in eg to compensate .

Also is it truly the case that none of these settings affect the raw file (dng) at all ?

11-15-2011, 08:59 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by milesy Quote
I may have made an error in my original question.
Rather than Adams settings which was simply changing the level at which nr comes into effect if you change the key settings as mentioned above and then have to dial.in eg to compensate .

Also is it truly the case that none of these settings affect the raw file (dng) at all ?
Yes, Adam's setting will not affect RAW. My setting also will not affect RAW except the exposure cause we apply Ev compensation to the camera. Therefore, the RAW image will be over exposed about 1Ev stop comparing to Pentax default or Adam's setting. Personally, I don't think it is an issue cause I'm Jpeg shooter. In case I really need RAW, I can easily change back to default or just simply take the slightly over exposed RAW image and apply -1Ev in Post Processing.
11-17-2011, 04:39 AM   #63
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Hi Chip,

I have tried your settings but without changing the EV settings and I still get great photos out of the K7. Thanks a lot!!
11-17-2011, 04:47 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by chipvn Quote
I can easily change back to default or just simply take the slightly over exposed RAW image and apply -1Ev in Post Processing.
No fear of blown highlights?

11-17-2011, 07:50 AM   #65
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Erm, forgive my ignorance, but if you're going to apply +.7 to +1 EV to ISO3200, why not just shoot with 0EV at ISO1600 to ISO2000?
11-17-2011, 08:02 AM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentup Quote
No fear of blown highlights?
Firstly, what we're discussing here is about the K-7 and high ISO. In this circumstance, I'd rather slightly overexpose the picture when shotting RAW rather than underexpose then bring it back in PP cause I will need to clean up to much of noise (also mean sweap away the details). For most situation, I don't think 1Ev overexposing is really that bad for recovering the details when shoting RAW.

Secondly, what we are trying here, as I did mention, is trying to bring the High ISO noise JPEG performace of the K-7 as close to its High ISO noise RAW performance as possible.

But yes, if you are RAW shooter and really concern about that, you can simply bring Ev Comp back to normal when shooting RAW. I'm just a lazy JPEG shooter.
11-17-2011, 08:24 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by conradj Quote
Erm, forgive my ignorance, but if you're going to apply +.7 to +1 EV to ISO3200, why not just shoot with 0EV at ISO1600 to ISO2000?
Oh, I overlooked this.

The result at each ISO is better but in reality, we need to trade back speed and there might not be much advantage. I need to do some more test again to see if it could have better than 0.7 stop or not. If not, then .... very sad!

Thanks for your question, Conradj!
11-18-2011, 04:42 PM   #68
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Can't argue with the results people are getting with these settings, but I have to ask: is there an advantage to all this tweaking of settings for jpegs in camera over simply saving raw files and making adjustments in post?

11-18-2011, 05:18 PM   #69
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Yes, the advantage would be in eliminating having to do any PP at all.
Shooting RAW or RAW+ has its advantages. Sometimes it is more fun to just shoot and not worry about the afterward work flow.
11-18-2011, 07:12 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
Yes, the advantage would be in eliminating having to do any PP at all.
Makes sense. Wouldn't work for me though, because I just don't see "one size fitting all." Noise bothers me more/less depending on subject matter, for example.
What I was wondering was whether there might be an overall IQ advantage in doing it in camera.
11-18-2011, 07:16 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
Yes, the advantage would be in eliminating having to do any PP at all.
Shooting RAW or RAW+ has its advantages. Sometimes it is more fun to just shoot and not worry about the afterward work flow.
Very true. PP for a night out can be a pain. Also, I do a couple of shoots a year for charity. In these cases I shoot jpg, , download the pics to their computer and I'm gone. They just load them to a stick and hit walmart to get them printed. Now, to be fair, I use studio strobes for those, ISO 100 stuff, but I can see these settings being really handy in similar situations. And btw, those settings worked great!!!
11-18-2011, 07:18 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by chipvn Quote
I'm just a lazy JPEG shooter.
That's funny, 'cause I shoot raw partly because I'm too lazy to tweak these settings in the camera.
(but mostly it's my aversion to commitment -- I'm always tweaking white balance in Lightroom, for example.)

I candidly admit to having too much of an "eh, I'll fix it later" mentality; meticulous jpeg shooters are getting better exposures than I much more consistently, I'm sure.
11-18-2011, 07:29 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentup Quote
What I was wondering was whether there might be an overall IQ advantage in doing it in camera.
IMO, no. But more than good enough sometimes. Ya can't beat the raw! But man, you can still shoot some Killer jpgs!
11-18-2011, 07:35 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentup Quote
meticulous jpeg shooters are getting better exposures than I much more consistently, I'm sure.
I'm sure your being too modest here!! LOL
11-18-2011, 07:37 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by conradj Quote
Erm, forgive my ignorance, but if you're going to apply +.7 to +1 EV to ISO3200, why not just shoot with 0EV at ISO1600 to ISO2000?
EC applies to all iso range, not just iso3200, there could be reasons why you need to use iso3200, especially if you use TAv mode while I agree that it is more preferable to use lower iso setting.

QuoteOriginally posted by chipvn Quote
Firstly, what we're discussing here is about the K-7 and high ISO. In this circumstance, I'd rather slightly overexpose the picture when shotting RAW rather than underexpose then bring it back in PP cause I will need to clean up to much of noise (also mean sweap away the details). For most situation, I don't think 1Ev overexposing is really that bad for recovering the details when shoting RAW.

Secondly, what we are trying here, as I did mention, is trying to bring the High ISO noise JPEG performace of the K-7 as close to its High ISO noise RAW performance as possible.

But yes, if you are RAW shooter and really concern about that, you can simply bring Ev Comp back to normal when shooting RAW. I'm just a lazy JPEG shooter.
First, Chipvn, I tried your suggestion on jpeg setting and I found the result is fairly good (liked your post), now that I can use both jpeg and/or raw depending on situations. Another thing about the importance of setting +1EC is similar to the idea of ETTR (expose-to-the-right) which reduces noise at any iso level and the high/low key setting -4 provides some protection of highlight clipping. The resulting jpeg has given us new life on the k-7 sensor where iso 2000 is relatively clean from noise (I used to keep it under iso800). Of course, the k-5 sensor would still out-perform the k-7 in regards to high-iso noise. But for now, I am good with it for the time being as I generally use flash when the lighting condition is less than adequate or desirable.

QuoteOriginally posted by chipvn Quote
Oh, I overlooked this.

The result at each ISO is better but in reality, we need to trade back speed and there might not be much advantage. I need to do some more test again to see if it could have better than 0.7 stop or not. If not, then .... very sad!

Thanks for your question, Conradj!
Depending on scene and how you meter (center-weigh), I generally find both +1 and +1.3 EC work fine without clipping highlights.
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