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08-15-2007, 06:31 AM   #16
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Using manual lenses is falling-off-a-log easy. You can still make use of automation on the metering, and manual focusing is no big deal.

You know, all I ever really wanted out of the digital photography age was to give me a digital back for my old Canon AE-1 twenty years ago. It was nothing fancy, and the way I use the K100D is nothing fancy. When I got it right, the AE-1 took great photos. So does the K100D. So does my 1930s box Brownie. So do my 50 year old TLRs and rangefinders. It's too easy to get caught up in the various knobs, buttons, levers, menus, lights, indicators, beeps, and whatnot on the camera and think that they're what it's all about. They're just a means to an end and whether we use highly complicated ones or something like the K100D which for some reason seems to be an object of derision for its "simplicity" doesn't really matter. So I set my shutter speed and aperture with less electronic wizardry than does a K10D user....so what? We're both setting the exact same damned thing.

Anyone familiar with the part of Huck Finn where Tom Sawyer shows up and is going to help Huck help Jim escape? It's like an allegory of the suave-n-sophisticated K10D vs. the simplistic K100D nonsense.

08-15-2007, 07:00 AM   #17
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I was in a similar situation...kinda. I could really only afford the K100D but I compared it what else was out there (the D40, Rebel XT and some other entry-level DSLRs). My sister-in-law has the D40 too. While I liked the D40 when I played with it in store, I didn't really care for it all that much after playing with it for awhile. I couldn't find a single place within 120 miles that had a Pentax on the shelf to try out in my hand. I had to go with what other users have said (I read up on it on several photography forums besides this one). I got mine a couple weeks ago and I've got nearly 900 shots on it now. I've only kept about 1/3 of them but I've really enjoyed trying everything out and experimenting with it since this was my first DSLR. I went with several of the reasons people have mentioned already: the camera cost itself, dual LCDs, the in-camera SR, and the lens compatibility (you can also get a screw mount adapter and use even more lenses). If you can hold off a few days and buy it online, you may be able to save some money by buying the basic kit from BuyDig.com ($447. $397 after rebate) or BeachCamera.com ($447. $397 after rebate). Good luck! I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you end up buying.
08-15-2007, 09:53 AM   #18
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I was totally in the same boat a little over 2 months ago!

I originally wanted to get a Canon 350D, but the reviews of the kit lens put me off (I knew I wouldn't be able to afford a new lens for a while). So while looking in the same price range I read up about the D40 and decided I really liked the kit lens, and the IQ and features were not bad for an entry level DSLR. I was even prepared to accept the fact that the camera was only compatible with AF-S lenses (in the vain hope that eventually they would get around to releasing primes with an internal motor).

The day I finally decided to go and buy the D40 at Futureshop (due to them including a free 4GB Sandisk SDHC card) I discover much to my dismay that they had none in stock. I asked if I could take a rain-check, which I could, but while doing that I look into the display case and see another DSLR, the K100D, with a yellow "Clearance" tag next to it... that's all well and good... but then I see "...2 lens kit..." which piques my interest because I realize that this is the same price as I would pay for the D40 with the one lens.

At this point I feel a bit weary because I had done all my research on the D40 and only really knew about the K100D in passing.

I start weighing the pros and cons in my head while doing laps of the store with my girlfriend... Do I go with what I know... or do I get this fantastic deal? I don't know what the IQ is like on the K100! I was going to eventually get the 50-200 VR lens for the Nikon... this thing has Shake Reduction on all the lenses!

I talked to the guy behind the counter, and he says he wouldn't recommend the Pentax... though I chalk that up to the fact that Canon and Nikon are the more well-known brands. I ask about the return policy and he tells me that if I'm not satisfied I can return the camera and lenses for a full refund in 14 days.

Well, it's now been over 2 months and I couldn't be more pleased with my purchase! I know I'm gushing a little here, but I'm so happy with my camera and thinking back I realize that I think the D40 would eventually have frustrated me with it's limitations.

I hear people say it's likely the best 6MP DSLR on the market today, and I couldn't agree more. The K100 is not without its flaws, but in my opinion the only other DSLR on the market that offers better value for the money is probably the K10D

Anyways, a bit of shameless self promotion, but here is a link to my Flickr gallery if you want to have a look at some pictures I've taken with the K100, all of them with either the 18-55 or 50-200 kit lenses, JPEG straight from the camera:

Flickr: Photos from E&C Photos

I'm eventually going to make the jump to RAW, but the in-camera JPEG performance is pretty damn good.

-Colin
08-15-2007, 11:02 AM   #19
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I REALLY enjoyed your Flickr stream and am now more excited than ever to get that camera!!!

I can't seem to find the 2 lens kit anywhere online, so I am right now trying to decide on which zoom to get with my kit, 75-300 or 50-200... (and then the whole sigma vs. tamron vs. pentax thing). At least it's summer vacation and a rainy week... not much else to do than research

08-15-2007, 11:12 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by lapeen Quote
I REALLY enjoyed your Flickr stream and am now more excited than ever to get that camera!!!

I can't seem to find the 2 lens kit anywhere online, so I am right now trying to decide on which zoom to get with my kit, 75-300 or 50-200... (and then the whole sigma vs. tamron vs. pentax thing). At least it's summer vacation and a rainy week... not much else to do than research
Just my 2 cents
Pentax smc A-70-210 f/4 lens - (item 140146725638 end time Aug-17-07 08:01:54 PDT)
or
http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=PK07000000875N&br...&GBC=&GCC=&KW=

Ken
08-15-2007, 01:28 PM   #21
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worth MUCH more than 2 cents I am watching that ebay one, we'll see how high it goes.

I really think I want an AF zoom though while I am still learning.... one less thing to focus (LOL) on.
08-15-2007, 01:53 PM   #22
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k100d>d40

//end thread
08-15-2007, 02:39 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by lapeen Quote
I am a little concerned. I would hate for my friend (who has a d40) to take some snaps with my camera and say, "WOW... this is really slow compared to mine" I have also used hers... so am I going to notice that? Also, we are often out together taking photos and it would really suck if her pictures of the kids sitting on a pumpkin are visibly better than mine.
Your friend definitely will say "WOW!" when she will see your sharp picture taken at 1/10 sec. or 1/6 sec. hand-held

08-15-2007, 02:50 PM   #24
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Your wallet will say wow when you get a 50mm/1.4 for under $100.
08-16-2007, 06:18 AM   #25
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[QUOTE=lapeen;84997] Also, we are often out together taking photos and it would really suck if her pictures of the kids sitting on a pumpkin are visibly better than mine.
[QUOTE]

The picture quality won't be much different. K100D has OK AWB outside in normal daylight conditions, it's worse indoors, but I don't think D40 would be better in this respect. I shoot most of my landscapes with AWB (though in RAW so I can change it easily) and it's fine. Difference is in metering. Pentax system is quite simple, as far as I know. It often appears to go for the bright (brightest) spot in frame. Consequently pics may appear underexposed copared to Nikons and Cannons, but then on the plus side, you are very unlikely to loose any highlight detail shooting with Pentax.
Personaly I considered D50 to bulky and D40 too small. K100D feels just about right. Plus you get SR and backward compatibility with lenses - two things which you won't get with any Nikon for sure.
08-16-2007, 05:58 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by darkstorm82 Quote
hmm that is with your k110d? i tought it could only do 5 in a row in JPEG!
Then i think i would go buy a fast card if its the case!
Let me slightly clarify the shooting speed I experienced earlier. I used a Sandisk Extreme III and shot in 6mp Jpeg. Good lighting at the same static subject. The K110D shots the first 5 shots off at the normal 3fps or whatever it's rated for ( I forget) and then it slows slightly (maybe 1.5-2 Fps (?). You can shoot till the card is full or the batteries run out with this fast SD card without taking your finger off the shutter button. The preview for the first pic in the series showed up on the screen less than 2 seconds after I just fired off 44 shots and it was ready to fire again right away.

A couple of things may influence this little 'test'.
1) Static subject where the camera is not doing any focusing.
2) Good lighting so the focus will not hunt or check focus
3) fresh batteries
4) An Sd card that reads/writes faster than the buffer so there is no lag
5) Shooting in Jpeg (6***) vs Raw so file size is smaller.

A faster card makes a big difference and is well worth the extra cost even for regular shooting in Raw or Jpeg. Once I got these 2 Extreme III 2 GB cards I have never used the other ones I have unless I've filled these first.
08-16-2007, 07:05 PM   #27
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Haven't shot the D40. Have shot with the pentax K100D (own DS and K10D). The Pentax has features that you will grow into. These are features normally reserved for pro cameras a few years ago. Don't think nikon offers most (designed more as a glorified P&S). Pentax has Spot metering, Mirror lockup, depth of field preview, cable release, wireless remote (optional remote), choice of battery type - AA disposables and rechargeables + disposable crv-3, ability to meter and use all old lenses - even screw mount with adapter. Your friend will be wondering why her camera lacks all these features. Don't under estimate the importance of Shake Reduction. I can take pics with the Pentax that none of my 20 other cameras can pull off! It is that good. I feel sorry for people that buy new dslr cameras without builtin shake reduction. A Nikon 300 zoom with builtin image stabilization is almost $600. Ouch. Buy the Pentax 50-200 with the camera and get a nice rebate on the two. The Pentax is just as easy to use on auto as the D40.
thanks
barondla
08-16-2007, 09:53 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
A faster card makes a big difference and is well worth the extra cost even for regular shooting in Raw or Jpeg. Once I got these 2 Extreme III 2 GB cards I have never used the other ones I have unless I've filled these first.
K110D, K100D and K100D Super do not benefit from cards faster than 66x. Try writing speed with 66x and with 133x or 150x card and you'll see yourself.

D40 is definitely faster camera than K100D. In all respects. Oh, and it has working Auto ISO. However K100D has shake reduction in camera.

In fact it's a tough decision between those two cameras
08-16-2007, 10:15 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Your friend definitely will say "WOW!" when she will see your sharp picture taken at 1/10 sec. or 1/6 sec. hand-held
Hand-held at 1/6 second.....135mm lens

[b]Without Shake Reduction:



Again....hand-held at 1/6 second.....135mm lens

[b]With Shake Reduction:



Excuse the boring subject matter. It was what was outside the passenger window of my truck at the moment I decided to kill time by doing a comparison test on the SR feature.

The common rule of thumb says to not let your shutter speed dip below your focal length. Rounding things off, then, I should have been at no lower than 1/125.

1/125 -> 1/60 -> 1/30 -> 1/15 -> 1/8

The shake reduction gave me a little better than a 4 stop advantage. Even allowing for the ability to carefully hold the camera and fudge the rule a stop or so, I still got at least a 2 1/2 to 3 stop advantage. Am I happy with Pentax Shake Reduction? You'd better believe it. When Nikon or Canon start doing that with $40 lenses like the one I shot that with, have them call me and I'll take a look at their products.

Last edited by Mike Cash; 08-16-2007 at 10:22 PM.
08-17-2007, 02:56 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
K110D, K100D and K100D Super do not benefit from cards faster than 66x. Try writing speed with 66x and with 133x or 150x card and you'll see yourself.

D40 is definitely faster camera than K100D. In all respects. Oh, and it has working Auto ISO. However K100D has shake reduction in camera.

In fact it's a tough decision between those two cameras
You're correct about the card speed benifits. But like many others I bought the cheapest cards I could find at first and they don't even indicate the transfer rates on the packages. I'd suspect they are lower than those above. There is a distinct and noticeable difference between them and the faster cards I now have. Plus 2 of the cheaper cards have totally died in less than 5000 shots and 1.5 years of ownership, so I don't trust them.
Have you shot with both cameras? I haven't so I can't compare. My k10D would be faster than both and I can count on one hand how many times it's been in burst mode in the last 7 months. This whole speed issue is basically a non starter and there are many more features that are far more important to taking good pictures. SR just being one key one.



QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote


Excuse the boring subject matter. It was what was outside the passenger window of my truck at the moment I decided to kill time by doing a comparison test on the SR feature.

The common rule of thumb says to not let your shutter speed dip below your focal length. Rounding things off, then, I should have been at no lower than 1/125.

1/125 -> 1/60 -> 1/30 -> 1/15 -> 1/8

The shake reduction gave me a little better than a 4 stop advantage. Even allowing for the ability to carefully hold the camera and fudge the rule a stop or so, I still got at least a 2 1/2 to 3 stop advantage. Am I happy with Pentax Shake Reduction? You'd better believe it. When Nikon or Canon start doing that with $40 lenses like the one I shot that with, have them call me and I'll take a look at their products.
Mike you really need to either totally sober up or just keep drinking. That hand shake on your sober days is pretty bad...lol
Great example Mike of how important this feature is. used correctly (off on a tripod and when the light allows higher than 1/250th shooting (IMO not needed and the shots are marginally sharper)) it is a must have feature. I've gotten shots with it that would never have been even attempted in the 'old days' unless the tripod was nearby.
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