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07-07-2010, 05:11 AM   #16
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My opinion on the Kx (I had the K10, then K20, and now have both k7 and Kx) :

- lack of external audio is not really a big deal-breaker...
If you really want it, you can have excellent mini-recorders at the price of a good videomic, and you then have the added bonus of placing it anywhere! Just have to sync video and audio afterwards, but as you already have the internal mic track, it's a piece of cake...

- Manual Lenses and AF points
Well, the AF point selection only works with PK-A lenses anyway, so if you are using m42 or PK-m lenses, you don't need them.
Besides, I find these red dots hugely irritating in manual focus, so, good riddance...

- Manual Lenses and still images
Going from the K7 to the Kx, I don't find the viewfinder difference to be that huge as to impair my manual focusing. And, well, you now have the added bonus of Liveview, so manual focus is eased in some cases.
I guess it's all down to your eyesight...

- General handling
That's where you can find the Kx slightly lacking... Iso is a little buried in the menus (no front wheel!), and is not that easy to change...
Same for metering, or AF point selection...

07-07-2010, 05:39 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
...

- Manual Lenses and still images
Going from the K7 to the Kx, I don't find the viewfinder difference to be that huge as to impair my manual focusing. And, well, you now have the added bonus of Liveview, so manual focus is eased in some cases.
I guess it's all down to your eyesight...

- General handling
That's where you can find the Kx slightly lacking... Iso is a little buried in the menus (no front wheel!), and is not that easy to change...
Same for metering, or AF point selection...
It is not so much the finder as the lack of a bright, inexpensive screen with focus aids which is a big minus for the K-x for me. I'm spoiled by my manual focus film cameras, and the Jinfinance screen for the K10d was just the ticket.

The last point is also a good one. The ISO adjustment in menu is annoying, especially because I use it on the K-x quite a bit.
07-07-2010, 08:42 AM   #18
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Has it really been determiend the K-x cannot use the focus screens designed for the other pentamirror-based Pentax cameras?
07-07-2010, 09:12 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
- General handling
That's where you can find the Kx slightly lacking... Iso is a little buried in the menus (no front wheel!)...
It's not buried very far :

- press down on ISO button on 4-way controller with thumb;
- use scroll wheel to select ISO with thumb;
- hit OK button with thumb.

It's pretty quick to access. I do it one-handed on the K-x without removing my eye from the viewfinder.

The way it works on the K-x is more streamlined and ergonomic than on the K200D (and possibly the K20D?). On the K200D, not only would I have to add another step:

- press Fn button with thumb;
- press down on ISO button on 4-way controller with thumb;
- use scroll wheel to select ISO with thumb;
- hit OK button with thumb.

but on the K-x the ISO values as I adjust them are visible in the viewfinder, so I can change them without removing my eye from the viewfinder. On the K200D, as I am adjusting ISO the only place the ISO value is displayed is on the rear display, not in the viewfinder. Only once have I made a selection does the ISO value appear in the viewfinder (and the top LCD).

Having said all that, front AND rear dials would be great on the K-x, of course.

07-07-2010, 10:01 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Has it really been determiend the K-x cannot use the focus screens designed for the other pentamirror-based Pentax cameras?
No, I don't know that it has, actually. I may stand to be corrected on that. There certainly isn't much offered on Fleabay.
07-07-2010, 12:46 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mediaslinky Quote
I currently have a K10D, and love it. Does everything I want... Except video.

I have a budget kit. The only auto lens I own is the kit. I love my old glass, and like manual shooting.

Lately I have seen quite a few videos shot with DSLRs, and am liking what I see. I cannot begin to afford the K7, or higher priced competitors. But here is the KX with 720p, 24fps. Since I already own K mount glass, it makes sense to stay with Pentax.

I have read some reviews on the KX, and possible noise. I have looked at some sample videos people have posted, and I do see some with noise, but many with just great video.

I have some concern with external audio input.

I would love to use this for both fun and for work (where we produce quite a few videos).

How do you guys with video capable DSLRs handle external audio?
Had any issues with the KX? I know it's not a K7, but...

Oh, and how does the still image capture compare with the K10D?

Slinky

I upgraded to the Kx. I don't know about the video aspects. I am sure that anyone could argue that the video from any dslr will lack compared to a present day video camera.

From still photo standpoint it was night and day for me. The Kx is better than the Kx in all the ways that matter to me. You get impoved AWB, Metering with manual (taks)lenses, faster AF, increase in FPS, much better high ISO images. I bought mine for $498 with kit lens. What a great deal!!

I don't miss the weight, WR, grip or even the dual wheel. The LED lights are also not missed-never liked them.

Hope this helps.
07-07-2010, 01:55 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Or keep the K10D and buy a K-x. They have different strengths and capabilities and are quite complementary.
I agree with this sentiment. First, I find that having 2 camera bodies makes it a lot easier to shoot where you may need several different lenses. You simply switch cameras rather than bodies.

Second, for MF lenses, taking stills, the K10D's prism finder will be much brighter than the K-x's pentamirror, plus it has focus indicators in the VF.

Third, I find the dual-dial bodies much easier to use than the single-dial K100D I have.
07-07-2010, 02:03 PM   #23
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I have both, K10 and K-x (officially belongs to my wife).
One thing I like beter on K10 is the colors it produces. K-x is good in this respect but I like K10 more. Other than that. K-x is just too small for my hands. I can handle it but it's not very comfortable. 2 dials and more external controls are more convenient as is the exchangable focusing scree. Personally I'm not huge fan of video.. and definitely not on DSLRs. So for now I'm keeping both. No way I'd swap my K10 for another K-x, K-7... maybe, but for now I'm waiting and so should you IMO

07-07-2010, 02:22 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by MSM Quote

From still photo standpoint it was night and day for me. The Kx is better than the Kx in all the ways that matter to me. You get impoved AWB, Metering with manual (taks)lenses, faster AF, increase in FPS, much better high ISO images. I bought mine for $498 with kit lens. What a great deal!!

I don't miss the weight, WR, grip or even the dual wheel. The LED lights are also not missed-never liked them.

Hope this helps.
just few notes from me:
Improved AWB: no sound photog will use AWB, when in matters us custom or preset and tweak it, besides K-x leans towards magenta hue while K10 more towards yellow/cyan, I prefer K10 but that's personal.... and I shoot RAW, always.
=no real advantage IMO

Metering with manual, I'll give you that, it's improved but you can't install split screen, and the VF is smaller and dimmer, although you can use LV (which I really dislike on DSLRs) and besides, if you know your lenses, metering won't be huge issue, especially in M mode...
= no real advantage IMO

Increase in FPS: I never felt need for more than 3fps. But K10 has bigger buffer (9RAW/unlimited JPGS vs 5RAW/17 JPGs). If you want K-x to match the buffer performance, it only shoots 2fps!
= no real advantage IMO

Much better high ISO: well, I'm not going to argue on that one. K-x is way better. On the other hand, it's native ISO is 200 so you are loosing stop of light when trying to do long exposures ("expanding ISO to 100 lowers the dynamic range AFAIK) and in good light, up to 400 K10 easily delivers as much detail as K-x
= the high ISO is a big advantage, but if you need low ISO, I'd keep K10D

The rest of it is really personal opinion, but dual wheels are way better arrangement than single. Size and weight, maybe for smaller hands or average hands, but I have quite large palms with long fingers and find K-x rather uncomfortable. With K10 I use the grip at all times to gain the handling I'm after. It gets heavy but I'm more than willing to compromise there, and the LEDs. Well if you use center AF only then OK, but if you have 11 to choose from, why should you be stuck at one and/or having to look at LCD everytime you need to change your focusing point....

so night and day? hardly IMO.
K-x is great camera, but from my POV they sacrificed a lot to keep the price at the level... Now if was body of K100 with guts of K-x, I'd be much happier....
07-07-2010, 03:39 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Has it really been determiend the K-x cannot use the focus screens designed for the other pentamirror-based Pentax cameras?
Nope, untrue. Katzeye makes one :)

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It's not buried very far :

- press down on ISO button on 4-way controller with thumb;
- use scroll wheel to select ISO with thumb;
- hit OK button with thumb.

It's pretty quick to access. I do it one-handed on the K-x without removing my eye from the viewfinder.

Having said all that, front AND rear dials would be great on the K-x, of course.
ITA - changing ISO is a 2 second process, and I didn't even realize you could use the edial rather than the 4-way buttons. Now it'll be even faster - excellent :P


QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
just few notes from me:
Improved AWB: no sound photog will use AWB, when in matters us custom or preset and tweak it, besides K-x leans towards magenta hue while K10 more towards yellow/cyan, I prefer K10 but that's personal.... and I shoot RAW, always.
=no real advantage IMO

Metering with manual, I'll give you that, it's improved but you can't install split screen, and the VF is smaller and dimmer, although you can use LV (which I really dislike on DSLRs) and besides, if you know your lenses, metering won't be huge issue, especially in M mode...
= no real advantage IMO

Increase in FPS: I never felt need for more than 3fps. But K10 has bigger buffer (9RAW/unlimited JPGS vs 5RAW/17 JPGs). If you want K-x to match the buffer performance, it only shoots 2fps!
= no real advantage IMO

Much better high ISO: well, I'm not going to argue on that one. K-x is way better. On the other hand, it's native ISO is 200 so you are loosing stop of light when trying to do long exposures ("expanding ISO to 100 lowers the dynamic range AFAIK) and in good light, up to 400 K10 easily delivers as much detail as K-x
= the high ISO is a big advantage, but if you need low ISO, I'd keep K10D

The rest of it is really personal opinion, but dual wheels are way better arrangement than single. Size and weight, maybe for smaller hands or average hands, but I have quite large palms with long fingers and find K-x rather uncomfortable. With K10 I use the grip at all times to gain the handling I'm after. It gets heavy but I'm more than willing to compromise there, and the LEDs. Well if you use center AF only then OK, but if you have 11 to choose from, why should you be stuck at one and/or having to look at LCD everytime you need to change your focusing point....

so night and day? hardly IMO.
K-x is great camera, but from my POV they sacrificed a lot to keep the price at the level... Now if was body of K100 with guts of K-x, I'd be much happier....
"Is he using the same wind we are using?" I'm not sure you and I had similar quality K10s and K-x's - my experience is similar to that of the previous poster. My K-x is head and shoulders over my K10. In not a single way was my K10 a better picture taking machine for me, with the exception of weather sealing.

AWB is so accurate on the K-x that the only time I go manual on WB is under sketchy indoor light. Sure you can adjust it in RAW, but why worry about it? AWB won't accidentally give me an entire day's worth of photos outdoors under tungesten settings, resulting in RAW tweaks on every single one. Since I shoot in RAW+JPG, having accurate AWB for the 'snapshot' quality photos I take interspersed with more serious ones I'll definitely edit in RAW is very handy.

Yes, you can install a split prism, as noted above. Yes, the viewfinder is smaller, but I noticed no difference in dim/bright from my K10 to my K-x.

Yes, the 100 ISO is a pulled 200 ISO, however I have yet to notice any highlight clipping in properly exposed ISO100 photos I've taken. I'm sure it's possible to force it, but it's not a guaranteed outcome. But much more importantly to me, is my ISO 200 photos on the K-x look better than my ISO 100 photos did on the K10 - better clarity, smoothness, contrast and more accurate color. Whatever small losses there may be technically at ISO 100 is more than made up for by the ability to go to ISO 3200 or 6400 or 128,000 and still have excellent photos.

I do wish the K-x had 2 edials, simply for the extra programability, but I've found that in ergonomic practice, I do better with EV+E-dial than with a front edial (right index on button, right thumb on edial). However one prefers either layout over the other, you can't argue that one layout is better than another, just that the functionality of what's available is more or less limited. I have small hands - 1 edial and a small chassis work great for me. I won't claim either layout is better, just that one will be more functional than the other, depending on who you are. Plenty of men on this forum love shooting with their K-x, seems like Pentax nailed a sweet spot for how small you could make the camera and still have it be usable. Unlike the original Rebels, which even women complained had too shallow of a grip :P

Back when people first started debating this, someone here said, the K10 may be twice the camera, but the K-x gives me 4 times the usable pictures. I agree - what defines 'better camera' if you're going to leave out the actual photographic outcome? You have to balance pro-body features with pro-photo outcome in order to claim "better."
07-07-2010, 06:42 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by MSM Quote
I upgraded to the Kx. I don't know about the video aspects. I am sure that anyone could argue that the video from any dslr will lack compared to a present day video camera.
Actually, my limited experience would lean the other way. For short form, single camera production, DSLRs are capable of some amazing work. For a fraction of the cost, you can get amazing footage. It's all about the glass.

Did you know that the season finale of "House" this past season was all shot on video DSLR.
“House” Season finale…The first DSLR filmed prime time drama ever airs tonight on FOX. Do not miss! | Philip Bloom

Just today I borrowed a non Pentax DSLR a friend had to do an interview. He had just got it and was eager to test it out. 1080p 30fps. Quick review of work today was flat out jaw dropping. I'd seen stuff done before, but never done the shooting myself.

I have not has the chance to use a Pentax version, and other than vim and YouTube I have not seen video in real life, but if it is close to this... Wow.

We had his DSLR and a Sony Z1u. The DSLR outclassed the Z1u (because of the glass as well as body). The DOF really made the subjects pop.

Now, with body and lens, that set up would run you $4000. Still, that's $1000 less than we paid for the Z1u back when we bought it.
07-07-2010, 09:10 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ecaterin Quote
AWB is so accurate on the K-x that the only time I go manual on WB is under sketchy indoor light.
AWB is the best i've seen in Tungsten light, but I don't use AWB in tungsten lighting. I've seen some weird colours with the K-x, it often goes very blue in daylight. I find this more annoying than previous Pentaxes that go yellow in Tungsten light. Also metering is not as accurate as my K20. it frequently burns out the highlights.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ecaterin Quote
my ISO 200 photos on the K-x look better than my ISO 100 photos did on the K10 - better clarity, smoothness, contrast and more accurate color. Whatever small losses there may be technically at ISO 100 is more than made up for by the ability to go to ISO 3200 or 6400 or 128,000 and still have excellent photos.
Excellent at 12,800? I think you're getting a little carried away.
THe K-x uses very strong NR. The default setting is horrible, very plasticky and kills detail. I've backed off on the strength and increased the starting ISO to 1600.

I'm curious about what settings you're using. I've tried default Bright, Bright w/ -1 Saturation, Natural, played with hue, contrast and sharpness, and no matter what I've tried the K-x files look common to me. I don't have a K10D, but I've always been impressed with the look of the photos from it. I don't have the same feeling about the K-x. I honestly think it has the worst IQ of any Pentax dslr so far. It's certainly not bad, but it looks like some other brand, not the impressive Pentax colour rendition I'm accustomed to.

I like my K-x for its small size (especially with the DA 40) and for its extra stop of ISO performance, but it doesn't hold a candle to the K20 AFAIC. I suspect I'd feel the same way about a K10, but I've never owned one so I can't say for sure.

Last edited by audiobomber; 07-08-2010 at 08:17 AM.
07-08-2010, 12:05 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ecaterin Quote
Nope, untrue. Katzeye makes one :)



ITA - changing ISO is a 2 second process, and I didn't even realize you could use the edial rather than the 4-way buttons. Now it'll be even faster - excellent :P




"Is he using the same wind we are using?" I'm not sure you and I had similar quality K10s and K-x's - my experience is similar to that of the previous poster. My K-x is head and shoulders over my K10. In not a single way was my K10 a better picture taking machine for me, with the exception of weather sealing.

AWB is so accurate on the K-x that the only time I go manual on WB is under sketchy indoor light. Sure you can adjust it in RAW, but why worry about it? AWB won't accidentally give me an entire day's worth of photos outdoors under tungesten settings, resulting in RAW tweaks on every single one. Since I shoot in RAW+JPG, having accurate AWB for the 'snapshot' quality photos I take interspersed with more serious ones I'll definitely edit in RAW is very handy.

Yes, you can install a split prism, as noted above. Yes, the viewfinder is smaller, but I noticed no difference in dim/bright from my K10 to my K-x.

Yes, the 100 ISO is a pulled 200 ISO, however I have yet to notice any highlight clipping in properly exposed ISO100 photos I've taken. I'm sure it's possible to force it, but it's not a guaranteed outcome. But much more importantly to me, is my ISO 200 photos on the K-x look better than my ISO 100 photos did on the K10 - better clarity, smoothness, contrast and more accurate color. Whatever small losses there may be technically at ISO 100 is more than made up for by the ability to go to ISO 3200 or 6400 or 128,000 and still have excellent photos.

I do wish the K-x had 2 edials, simply for the extra programability, but I've found that in ergonomic practice, I do better with EV+E-dial than with a front edial (right index on button, right thumb on edial). However one prefers either layout over the other, you can't argue that one layout is better than another, just that the functionality of what's available is more or less limited. I have small hands - 1 edial and a small chassis work great for me. I won't claim either layout is better, just that one will be more functional than the other, depending on who you are. Plenty of men on this forum love shooting with their K-x, seems like Pentax nailed a sweet spot for how small you could make the camera and still have it be usable. Unlike the original Rebels, which even women complained had too shallow of a grip :P

Back when people first started debating this, someone here said, the K10 may be twice the camera, but the K-x gives me 4 times the usable pictures. I agree - what defines 'better camera' if you're going to leave out the actual photographic outcome? You have to balance pro-body features with pro-photo outcome in order to claim "better."
I'm happy for you to have this opinion after comparing K10 vs K-x.
I just respectfully disagree
For me, no way K-x could replace K10D and be called upgrade..... anyway, many people, many opinions....
07-08-2010, 08:14 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
I'm happy for you to have this opinion after comparing K10 vs K-x.
I just respectfully disagree
For me, no way K-x could replace K10D and be called upgrade..... anyway, many people, many opinions....
LOL!! Indeed - as many strongly held opinions and staunchly held positions as there are people holding DSLR cameras I suspect
07-08-2010, 07:41 PM   #30
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Get a k-7, it won't cost you much more an you'll get features like battery grip, external microphone, hdvideo, and weather proofing. i just traded my k-x for a k-10 because of the lack of battery grip and weather proofing and the k-x is WAY faster and better processor wise!
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