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07-16-2010, 06:11 AM   #61
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The K10d was the first DSLR that ticked all the boxes in an affordable package,
The K20d set new ground in IQ, except nobody noticed,
The K7 started a buzz among users from other brands who were tired of plastic or huge, although many went even further towards micro 4/3.
The only thing that let the K7 down apart from the need for a video compatible sensor was the lack of mid range weather sealed lenses. A WR 16-45, 17-70, 18-250 would have been much better matched to the K7 than the two kit zooms.

07-16-2010, 06:43 AM   #62
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The K-7 accounted for less than 1.1% of changeable-lens cameras sold in Japan in the first half of this year.

The K-x represented 81% of all of Pentax's bodies sold in that time in Japan.

Having said that, the K-7 is the best-designed camera available today IMO, and a bargain to boot.
07-18-2010, 03:19 AM   #63
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I wonder what percentage of K10s and K20s were sold at the end of the life cycle when the prices dropped into the 600 dollar range, versus at higher prices early. Seems like the K7 price has held up pretty well. Just ask Samsungian!
07-18-2010, 04:19 AM   #64
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Well I started with the K20D and that was a great camera, but I wasn't capable enough at that time to handle all the things possible with it. Changed directly in the first week to the K-7 when it wend to sale. Great attraction for me was the moviemode (missed that from my before owned P&S camera), faster framerate, smaller body and better AF (with assist lamp). So for me it all came true with the pack. I have learned to handle the noise at higher iso, changed to shooting RAW and learnd a lot about photography in the past year. So that makes it a great camera for me.

I just checked the biggest online secondhand market in the Netherlands and there are currently no K-7 up for sale. So my guess is that the current owners are pleased with it.

To my opinion the K-7 is a rather difficult camera, where you need some extra work in post processing or handling to get all out of the camera that is possible. Not for starters, you have more easily simple jpeg's out of a D90 or a 500D, and that is maybe also one of the things why some people changed from brand and sold there K-7 early after purchase.

Marketing wise Hoya could still do a better job.


Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 07-18-2010 at 04:25 AM.
07-18-2010, 04:23 AM   #65
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I went from *ist DS > K10D > K20D > K-7. And the K-7 indeed trumps them all. Why I like my K-7;

- It focuses faster and more precise than its prededessors;
- It focuses in situations where its predecessors already quit;
- The Live View is really usable;
- The best metering of all of them;
- It does not have FF/BF issues with ANY of my lenses;
- It's faster and more responsive than its predecessors;
- The sensor shift is a stroke of genius;
- The auto WB is almost perfect when compared to its predecessors;
- It has a superb viewfinder for an APS-C camera;
- With grip it has a better ergonomics than all of its predecessors;
- The IQ at base ISO's is stellar.

If the K-7 is an indication of what its successor will have, then Canon and Nikon et al will be in big trouble!
07-18-2010, 05:38 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
The K-7 is an incredible camera all-around, though the sensor could be better.

I'm quite pleased with mine.
For me It's a no. I use and need higher ISO's maybe more than most. Looking at the quote above, What is a camera? It's an imaging device. Sure things like AF were improved, features added, the body is more compact etc. But if it was a slight step backwards from the K20D as an imaging device, then nope, it wasn't a success for some existing owners looking to upgrade.

As an imaging device, the K20D can equal or exceed the K-7 in most areas. And as a RAW shooter, I really don't care if the WB is better. The K20D is decent and easily corrected. That's how I judge this camera. Had they gotten a 12MP sensor that could shoot clean images at 3200+ then this would have been a barn burner. I remember the hype dropping off within a month or so of new users posting their thoughts on the camera.

For the new owner, then sure, it's a great camera to get into Pentax with. I had $2500.00 sitting to spend on a pair of them around launch date and after seeing/reading the comments and photos around High ISO's I put my money back in my pocket.
07-18-2010, 11:00 AM   #67
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Peter, you say you're a RAW shooter. In RAW, the K-7 matches Nikon and Canon's top APS-C cameras at high ISO, so I'm not sure why it's such an issue.
Although if you want to stay with Pentax and high ISO is a big deal, maybe you are waiting for the next advanced DSLR, with an improved sensor.

Imaging device is also a term open to a lot of interpretation. The K-7 is a smaller, quieter camera. I get some shots with it the K20D would likely not have got. Does that make it a better imaging device?
07-18-2010, 11:35 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I wonder what percentage of K10s and K20s were sold at the end of the life cycle when the prices dropped into the 600 dollar range, versus at higher prices early. Seems like the K7 price has held up pretty well. Just ask Samsungian!
I contributed to that phenomenon in both cases. The K-7 started a bit more expensive, and it ending a bit more expensive, but I'm not sure whether or not it has dropped by the same proportion as the earlier models....yet.

07-18-2010, 12:42 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
For me It's a no. I use and need higher ISO's maybe more than most. Looking at the quote above, What is a camera? It's an imaging device. Sure things like AF were improved, features added, the body is more compact etc. But if it was a slight step backwards from the K20D as an imaging device, then nope, it wasn't a success for some existing owners looking to upgrade.

As an imaging device, the K20D can equal or exceed the K-7 in most areas. And as a RAW shooter, I really don't care if the WB is better. The K20D is decent and easily corrected. That's how I judge this camera. Had they gotten a 12MP sensor that could shoot clean images at 3200+ then this would have been a barn burner. I remember the hype dropping off within a month or so of new users posting their thoughts on the camera.

For the new owner, then sure, it's a great camera to get into Pentax with. I had $2500.00 sitting to spend on a pair of them around launch date and after seeing/reading the comments and photos around High ISO's I put my money back in my pocket.
I agree,

I did not buy the K-7 because the image quality at higher ISO is not up to par with my K-20D's

I did buy the KX, just because of its very,very good high iso performance.

If the next generation has better ISO performance then the KX, I'll be first to get it.


wll
07-18-2010, 01:11 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
The K-x quickly found a bottom at around $500.00 - it is a great camera at an even better price. If you know Pentax's pricing history, you'd actually find the K-7 is doing a better job at retaining its value than either the K20d or K10d did after a year (and those were both sold primarily with kit lenses, rather than the body-only K-7, which seems to be the primary seller). It has also resisted going too far south of $800 (the price you paid is about the lowest I have read of). If you take into consideration that there is a clamoring for a new model with an improved sensor that has risen in the last month or two (something that should theoretically reduce sales, and drive down the price further - which hasn't happened), I think the K-7 has done very well for Pentax. Like many of K20d users, I didn't feel the need to upgrade, but am anxiously awaiting the K-7 follow-up.
yes, i agree it is holding it's price as B&HPhoto is still selling the K-7 for $1048.95
07-18-2010, 02:48 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
If the K-7 is an indication of what its successor will have, then Canon and Nikon et al will be in big trouble!
I bet the folks who run Canon and Nikon are losing sleep about the threat from Pentax....

... Not.


QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
As an imaging device, the K20D can equal or exceed the K-7 in most areas. And as a RAW shooter, I really don't care if the WB is better. The K20D is decent and easily corrected. That's how I judge this camera. Had they gotten a 12MP sensor that could shoot clean images at 3200+ then this would have been a barn burner. I remember the hype dropping off within a month or so of new users posting their thoughts on the camera.
I'm with Peter here. I decided to pass on the K-7, not really because it seemed a step backwards but just because it didn't seem much of a step forwards. But like Peter, I shoot weddings and the ability to get reasonably good image quality at ISO 1600 (and occasionally higher than that) is very important. If the next body demonstrates a big leap forward in that department I might buy one.

For me, the fact that the K-7 was smaller was not a good thing. I have big hands and I rather like the size and heft of the K10D/K20D. I have a grip for both of my cameras (K10D/K20D) and of course those grips wouldn't work on the K-7. Too bad.

I must say however that I'm somewhat glad that the K-7 wasn't any better than it was. My impression is that the digital camera industry is leaving childhood and moving into adolescence where the growth is no longer coming in large spurts. This is good for nearly all of us. I'd hate to have purchased an *ist DS just before the K100D and K10D were released with shake reduction, or to have bought a Nikon D80 just before the D90 came out. Those new cameras represented large leaps forward. But since then the improvements have been more incremental.

I hope the next Pentax body is exciting and generates some enthusiasm among reviewers. I dislike feeling defensive about shooting with Pentax. I also don't have much stomach for making a change now. I mean, I keep my eye on nearly everything else that's going on—from micro-4/3 cameras from Olympus and Panasonic to full-frame options from Sony, Nikon and Canon. But I just can't see a way to replace my line-up of nice primes on my Pentax bodies.

(I continue to think by the way that the next camera should be released with a prime lens as the kit lens, or at least as one of two options. I know it wont happen but it ought to.)

Will
07-18-2010, 02:55 PM   #72
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Everyone must be shooting jpeg.
07-18-2010, 02:58 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by kricha6431 Quote
yes, i agree it is holding it's price as B&HPhoto is still selling the K-7 for $1048.95
No, it is selling for $894 at B&H. The lowest advertised price on the net right now is $738.

The camera started out north of $1,300, which I believe was higher than the K20d, which finished at around $650. It seems to be going the same course in comparison to the original price.

Last edited by GeneV; 07-18-2010 at 03:04 PM.
07-18-2010, 03:49 PM   #74
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Was the K-7 a success?
It's a pretty bug step ahead in every parameter except high ISO, where it is perhaps very slightly off the K20.
Smaller, faster, more responsive and better ergonomics. It has much better exposure control than any Pentax DSLR before it.
It's AF is better than the K20, though still not where I'd like it to be.
For the people who naysay it because it's not hugely improved in high ISO, I kinda shrug and wonder what would keep you happy.
The more I use the K7, the more I forget about the K20.
07-18-2010, 04:10 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Was the K-7 a success?
It's a pretty bug step ahead in every parameter except high ISO, where it is perhaps very slightly off the K20.
Smaller, faster, more responsive and better ergonomics. It has much better exposure control than any Pentax DSLR before it.
It's AF is better than the K20, though still not where I'd like it to be.
For the people who naysay it because it's not hugely improved in high ISO, I kinda shrug and wonder what would keep you happy.
The more I use the K7, the more I forget about the K20.

Most imprtantly, is that the K-7 feels like a jewel. It feels like a prescision tool. An object to covet. Nothing wrong with the K10D and K20D; they are well finished but The K-7 is in a different league.
I do not agree that the metering of the K-7 is superior to its predecessors; the K10D has the best multipattern metering I've encountered in any camera. I feel that the K-7 meter is more subject orientated whereas the K-10D had a more holistic approach. The K-7 will constantly burn out the highligts in order to make grannys face correctly exosed whereas the K10D protected the highlights. This is of course a matter of taste and shooting style...
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