K20D and color issue..help please?

norco5 · 07-15-2010, 04:32 PM

Thank you Marc, I don't think the camera should lie and show me the image differently, I expected the front leaves to be blurred and I wanted them to frame the butterfly. But I didn't expect the image to have the appearance that it did. The leaves were not so far in front that they would have no definition and look like someone had smeared them , like a painting....I hope that makes sense

I feel that something is wrong , although I don't know what it is ....something is definately different than it use to be.
I know that the scence would look differently if I had used a smaller f stop, but I feel that this photo looks oversaturate and warped, JMO

here is a crop of the area

eta...sorry that is really large

audiobomber · 07-15-2010, 05:56 PM

I think that's a great photo. What you're seeing is just bokeh and pretty damn nice bokeh, IMO.

Marc Sabatella · 07-15-2010, 10:41 PM

I think you should not worry about this picture and see if you can post an example that shows a clearer problem. You still haven't really explained what about this one doesn't satisfy you. If you don't like the saturation level, turn it down, but beyond that, I still don't get why you feel an out of focus leaf shoud look different than it does. So post a picture of something else that you feel is problematic.

georgis · 07-16-2010, 05:45 AM

I don't think there is something wrong here. You have to remember that at 180mm and f8.0 the DOF is still shallow. Check Depth of Field Table! I do not know hoe far was the subject, but for example if subject distance is ~5m, then DOF @ f=8 will be only around 20cm!

norco5 · 07-16-2010, 10:54 AM

Thank you Audiobomber, Marc and Georgis, I truely appreciate the feedback.

I will post other examples of color issues , that I think are wrong. maybe I can explain better with pictures of people. I think that it is a saturation issue, but I have changed the setting on my camera to natural. I can post a couple of those taken in natural.

I will be back shortly....thank you again

MPrince · 07-16-2010, 11:25 AM

I will be shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, if switching the setting to natural doesn't solve your problem

norco5 · 07-16-2010, 11:55 AM

bright setting

natural setting

The second shot is definately more like the colors that I see through the camera
Both these shots are straight out of camera , just resized...just snap shots.
My son is the one with the orange nerf gun, and he is olive -ish skinned. In the first shot he looks green and the boy on the left is extremely RED..not true to life ....IMO.... Yes our grass is that dry

norco5 · 07-16-2010, 11:59 AM

Thank you Matt, I think you are right

Marc Sabatella · 07-16-2010, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by norco5

The second shot is definately more like the colors that I see through the camera

Is your monitor calibrated? The second shot is pretty strongly magenta-hued on my calibrated monitor - not even close to olive skin tones. The first shot is much more believable to my eyes. But in any case, I think this is more a difference on how the camera happened to choose a WB for the scene than natural/bright. AWB is just a guessing game; sometimes it will nail what you think you see (emphasis on "think" - the brain lies to you by trying to remove the color cast of the light itself) and sometimes it might be off (not removing enough of the color cast from the light, other times removing too much).

Also, looks to my eyes like the light actually *was* different in the two shot. But I'd also agree the saturation is higher on the first shot than it needs to be (mostly apparent from the red in the one boy's cheeks). So changing from bright to natural is clearly a win there.

In any case, I still don't see anything that even comes close to representing any sort of camera problem.

MPrince · 07-16-2010, 02:45 PM

On my monitor, and to my eyes, the first shot looks just fine, the second shot looks magenta hued, as Marc said. If you used AWB, that could mean a wrong guess by AWB (happens sometimes) or the light could have been slightly outside the AWB range.

Edit: I should say the color temperature of the light could have been slightly outside the awb range.

SpecialK · 07-16-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

On my monitor, and to my eyes, the first shot looks just fine, the second shot looks magenta hued, as Marc said.

I see it that way as well.

**interested_observer** · 07-16-2010, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by norco5

Thank you for the replies

I do use a lens hood, and this was taken in the bright sun!! My camera is set on the default for custom image color (BRIGHT), I will try the Natural setting

I'm not worried about the wing blur, I know that it is a leaf in front. And I like the DOF, just not the leaves above the butterfly, they look like they have been smudged with a finger, like you would do in photoshop.
I'm adding another shot to show you the area,
I have other shots from the same day, at different focal lengths, and they are all similar and weird, I will resize a couple and post some people shots if that helps too.

Looking at the image, I think I can reconstruct it in my mind - in 3D, and I would think that its an accurate representation. You are playing with depth of field and the camera lens, aperture and sensor are very different from the human eye and brain in its interpretation of the scene. I can assume foreground and background blur and with a relative thin focus plane containing the butterfly and flower. I think that its a wonderful image and an excellent capture. If it were me, it would be one of my best pictures - ever. I really like it!...

norco5 · 07-16-2010, 05:36 PM

Thank you!!!! I'm starting to see the light....but not what you are all seeing on your computor screens.

Marc, my monitor is not calibrated, as soon as you stated that ....things started to make a little more sense. About the time that I started noticing the color issues, was just after my new computer arrived. Is it possible that my new monitor is the problem?? Seriously, I never even thought of my monitor, only what I was seeing after uploading from my camera.

On my screen the first shot in BRIGHT....has a green yellow hue...a lot! The second shot seems pretty close to normal, no magenta hue.

And yes, the lighting conditions were totally different, I just wanted to show the two different settings

I thank you all , for taking the time to help me, I will be more than happy, if it is my monitor.

Do you mind if I show you another photo? after PS?

Raybo · 07-16-2010, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by SpecialK

I see it that way as well.

Me too!

I'm seeing red on the second image.

Raybo · 07-16-2010, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by norco5

Thank you!!!! I'm starting to see the light....but not what you are all seeing on your computor screens.

Marc, my monitor is not calibrated, as soon as you stated that ....things started to make a little more sense. About the time that I started noticing the color issues, was just after my new computer arrived. Is it possible that my new monitor is the problem?? Seriously, I never even thought of my monitor, only what I was seeing after uploading from my camera.

On my screen the first shot in BRIGHT....has a green yellow hue...a lot! The second shot seems pretty close to normal, no magenta hue.

And yes, the lighting conditions were totally different, I just wanted to show the two different settings

I thank you all , for taking the time to help me, I will be more than happy, if it is my monitor.

Do you mind if I show you another photo? after PS?

Go for it Shannon!

07-16-2010, 02:45 PM	#25
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	On my monitor, and to my eyes, the first shot looks just fine, the second shot looks magenta hued, as Marc said. If you used AWB, that could mean a wrong guess by AWB (happens sometimes) or the light could have been slightly outside the AWB range. Edit: I should say the color temperature of the light could have been slightly outside the awb range. Last edited by MPrince; 07-17-2010 at 10:10 AM.

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07-15-2010, 04:32 PM	#16
norco5 New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta , Canada Posts: 21 Original Poster	Thank you Marc, I don't think the camera should lie and show me the image differently, I expected the front leaves to be blurred and I wanted them to frame the butterfly. But I didn't expect the image to have the appearance that it did. The leaves were not so far in front that they would have no definition and look like someone had smeared them , like a painting....I hope that makes sense I feel that something is wrong , although I don't know what it is ....something is definately different than it use to be. I know that the scence would look differently if I had used a smaller f stop, but I feel that this photo looks oversaturate and warped, JMO here is a crop of the area eta...sorry that is really large

07-15-2010, 05:56 PM	#17
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	I think that's a great photo. What you're seeing is just bokeh and pretty damn nice bokeh, IMO.

07-15-2010, 10:41 PM	#18
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I think you should not worry about this picture and see if you can post an example that shows a clearer problem. You still haven't really explained what about this one doesn't satisfy you. If you don't like the saturation level, turn it down, but beyond that, I still don't get why you feel an out of focus leaf shoud look different than it does. So post a picture of something else that you feel is problematic.

07-16-2010, 05:45 AM	#19
georgis New Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 15	I don't think there is something wrong here. You have to remember that at 180mm and f8.0 the DOF is still shallow. Check Depth of Field Table! I do not know hoe far was the subject, but for example if subject distance is ~5m, then DOF @ f=8 will be only around 20cm!

07-16-2010, 10:54 AM	#20
norco5 New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta , Canada Posts: 21 Original Poster	Thank you Audiobomber, Marc and Georgis, I truely appreciate the feedback. I will post other examples of color issues , that I think are wrong. maybe I can explain better with pictures of people. I think that it is a saturation issue, but I have changed the setting on my camera to natural. I can post a couple of those taken in natural. I will be back shortly....thank you again

07-16-2010, 11:25 AM	#21
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	I will be shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, if switching the setting to natural doesn't solve your problem

07-16-2010, 11:55 AM	#22
norco5 New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta , Canada Posts: 21 Original Poster	bright setting natural setting The second shot is definately more like the colors that I see through the camera Both these shots are straight out of camera , just resized...just snap shots. My son is the one with the orange nerf gun, and he is olive -ish skinned. In the first shot he looks green and the boy on the left is extremely RED..not true to life ....IMO.... Yes our grass is that dry

07-16-2010, 11:59 AM	#23
norco5 New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta , Canada Posts: 21 Original Poster	Thank you Matt, I think you are right

07-16-2010, 12:24 PM	#24
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by norco5 The second shot is definately more like the colors that I see through the camera Is your monitor calibrated? The second shot is pretty strongly magenta-hued on my calibrated monitor - not even close to olive skin tones. The first shot is much more believable to my eyes. But in any case, I think this is more a difference on how the camera happened to choose a WB for the scene than natural/bright. AWB is just a guessing game; sometimes it will nail what you think you see (emphasis on "think" - the brain lies to you by trying to remove the color cast of the light itself) and sometimes it might be off (not removing enough of the color cast from the light, other times removing too much). Also, looks to my eyes like the light actually was different in the two shot. But I'd also agree the saturation is higher on the first shot than it needs to be (mostly apparent from the red in the one boy's cheeks). So changing from bright to natural is clearly a win there. In any case, I still don't see anything that even comes close to representing any sort of camera problem.

07-16-2010, 03:14 PM	#26
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Quote: On my monitor, and to my eyes, the first shot looks just fine, the second shot looks magenta hued, as Marc said. I see it that way as well.

07-16-2010, 04:16 PM	#27
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	Originally posted by norco5 Thank you for the replies I do use a lens hood, and this was taken in the bright sun!! My camera is set on the default for custom image color (BRIGHT), I will try the Natural setting I'm not worried about the wing blur, I know that it is a leaf in front. And I like the DOF, just not the leaves above the butterfly, they look like they have been smudged with a finger, like you would do in photoshop. I'm adding another shot to show you the area, I have other shots from the same day, at different focal lengths, and they are all similar and weird, I will resize a couple and post some people shots if that helps too. Looking at the image, I think I can reconstruct it in my mind - in 3D, and I would think that its an accurate representation. You are playing with depth of field and the camera lens, aperture and sensor are very different from the human eye and brain in its interpretation of the scene. I can assume foreground and background blur and with a relative thin focus plane containing the butterfly and flower. I think that its a wonderful image and an excellent capture. If it were me, it would be one of my best pictures - ever. I really like it!...

07-16-2010, 05:36 PM	#28
norco5 New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta , Canada Posts: 21 Original Poster	Thank you!!!! I'm starting to see the light....but not what you are all seeing on your computor screens. Marc, my monitor is not calibrated, as soon as you stated that ....things started to make a little more sense. About the time that I started noticing the color issues, was just after my new computer arrived. Is it possible that my new monitor is the problem?? Seriously, I never even thought of my monitor, only what I was seeing after uploading from my camera. On my screen the first shot in BRIGHT....has a green yellow hue...a lot! The second shot seems pretty close to normal, no magenta hue. And yes, the lighting conditions were totally different, I just wanted to show the two different settings I thank you all , for taking the time to help me, I will be more than happy, if it is my monitor. Do you mind if I show you another photo? after PS?

07-16-2010, 06:49 PM	#29
Raybo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 872	Originally posted by SpecialK I see it that way as well. Me too! I'm seeing red on the second image.

07-16-2010, 06:52 PM	#30
Raybo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 872	Originally posted by norco5 Thank you!!!! I'm starting to see the light....but not what you are all seeing on your computor screens. Marc, my monitor is not calibrated, as soon as you stated that ....things started to make a little more sense. About the time that I started noticing the color issues, was just after my new computer arrived. Is it possible that my new monitor is the problem?? Seriously, I never even thought of my monitor, only what I was seeing after uploading from my camera. On my screen the first shot in BRIGHT....has a green yellow hue...a lot! The second shot seems pretty close to normal, no magenta hue. And yes, the lighting conditions were totally different, I just wanted to show the two different settings I thank you all , for taking the time to help me, I will be more than happy, if it is my monitor. Do you mind if I show you another photo? after PS? Go for it Shannon!