K7 -vs- K20D

Adam · 07-22-2010, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by bodhi08

I feel only one thing is lacking with K7, that is the noise at high ISO.

I used K200D for quite a while and I'd say that its pics are cleaner than K7 are at the same (high) ISO.
It's also evident when the shadow is made brighter, the noise (chroma noise ?) is worse compared to K200D.
I don't know if this is particular to my K7 only but it really bothers me to the point of thinking I should try K20D for a comparison.

Is K20D better in this regard?

The K10 was, I think, but the K20 and K-7 are about the same.

I do prefer K-7's feel over that over the K20.

Adam
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kalison · 07-22-2010, 08:50 AM

I am liking the mode dial lock too. I feel they put in on there because the lug and strap is very close and its commonly touching that dial... while you're walking around I think it would turn a lot.

Otherwise I love the size, even with my stupid big hands.

JohnBee · 07-22-2010, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by Ed n Georgia

However, it just doesn't have the nice feel and great ergonomics of my K20D which I've had for a couple of years now.

Yes, I know that over time, I'll get used to it and probably begin to like it better. But, each time I use it, I find that I miss the ease of the K20D

I feel the same way.l
I have big hands and I found the K-7 to be a little smallish and sharper(IOW) than on the K20D contours.
BUT... that's just me.
My wife on the other hand(hehe) loves it!
She has a K-x atm and after handling the K-7 recently she decided to upgrade.
I personally think the K-7 is a real ladies camera

Perhaps this year they will put a K-x sensor with K-7 electronics in a K20 body

bodhi08 · 07-22-2010, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

The K200D is still 6mp, right? If so, it isn't surprising that it has better noise than a 14mp camera.

It is 10mp but what I didn't expect is the noise is quite evident (noticeable when compared). I was expecting it to be somewhat worse than K200D but not as bad as it actually is.
Needless to say, I am disappointed. But that is only one aspect of a great camera

Oscar1 · 07-22-2010, 09:10 AM

I've looked at photos of the K7. We have no Pentax dealer in my town so I can't put my hands on one. I wondered if anyone had an issue with all of the buttons being moved around?

Don't think I'll upgrade from my K20D.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 07-22-2010, 09:13 AM

I like the arrangement of the buttons. I can handle most of them while holding the camera with the right hand - I can keep the left hand on the lens most of the time.

Uncle_dad · 07-22-2010, 09:14 AM

I miss the SR button and I think with the battery grip the K-7 fits my larger hands real nice.
I do not have a grip on the K20D though, so cant really compare it.
I never had a problem with the mode dial moving on the K20D so for me its just a pain on the K-7.
It would be nice if you could charge the main battery while the grip is on.

Ed n Georgia · 07-22-2010, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Uncle_dad

It would be nice if you could charge the main battery while the grip is on.

I'd like that as well. Or, even charge it without having to remove it from the body, grip or not.

Pentaxor · 07-22-2010, 11:03 AM

I like the K-7 because of it's magnesium alloy casing. nothing like having a significant amount of protection.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 07-22-2010, 11:56 AM

In terms of buttons arrangement, one example: check how easy it is to hold the K-7 with a single hand and adjust the exposure compensation versus doing the same thing on the old body.

Marc Sabatella · 07-22-2010, 12:51 PM

For the record: the K10D and K200D have the same sensor and hence the same base noise levels, but the K10D's A/D converter introduces more noise of its own than the K200D's (maybe an oversimplified way of putting it, but that's how it works out). Meaning in practice, the K200D is noticeably better than the K10D in terms of high ISO noise whether shooting RAW or JPEG - enough so that the K200D is better then the 6MP cameras to my eye in this respect, but the K10D really isn't. The K20D is a (small) step up from any of these (and the K-x another small step beyond that). The K-7 is, well, somewhere in the middle of all this in my limited experience (just looking at online RAW samples from Imaging Resource and so forth). Somewhat better than the 6MP cameras or the K10D, but still half a notch below the K200D to my eye, and clearly a step below the K20D or K-x..

Of course, this all depends largely on whether you shoot RAW or JPEG and what kind of NR you do on the images. It also depends on what specific ISO level you comare at - at ISO 1600, the differences can be surprisingly small, but do get larger as you get to 3200 or 6400. I generally compare ISO 1600 RAW images with no NR as well as my "best effort" with my basic RAW processing program; I don't tend to care about in-camera JPEG.

Note people often make the mistake of comparing at "100%", but that puts higher pixel count cameras at an unfair disadvantage - you're blowing the image up larger. The 6MP cameras look pretty bad when you blow their images up that large, too.

**Sailor** · 07-22-2010, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Give it some time. I used to think the K10D body was perfect. Now I think the K-7 one is. . . . . . . .

Interesting. Successful ergonomics is a function not only of design but also our personal anatomy and mental wiring. Although I've yet to buy one, I loved the feel of the K-7 the moment I picked one up; I've always felt my K20D (and its predecessor, my K10D) to be a bit awkward compared with my first DSLR, a DS2.

Glad you're enjoying your camera.

Jer

Originally posted by Pentaxor

I like the K-7 because of it's magnesium alloy casing. nothing like having a significant amount of protection.

I've seen no data from Pentax (or anyone else, for that matter) demonstrating that a K-7 is actually more damage resistant than other Pentax cameras in real-world circumstances. Such may, in fact, be the case, but I'd need a little proof before I'd write a check for a K-7 based soley on the expectation that it can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. It's a great camera, nonetheless.

Jer

Pentaxor · 07-22-2010, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Sailor

I've seen no data from Pentax (or anyone else, for that matter) demonstrating that a K-7 is actually more damage resistant than other Pentax cameras in real-world circumstances. Such may, in fact, be the case, but I'd need a little proof before I'd write a check for a K-7 based soley on the expectation that it can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. It's a great camera, nonetheless.

Jer

looking for data regarding damage resistance would be hard to find since I dont think that people would generally document such incidents nor intently do so. googling up personal case scenarios might give you the data that you are looking for.

anyway, fwiw, I think I saw an old post in this forum where a damaged K20D was sold due to a fall and a picture of it was provided to show the extent of the damage. I think I had also read some old posts describing how their K10 or K20D were replaced because their camera cracked when their cameras accidentally fell.

kalison · 07-22-2010, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

looking for data regarding damage resistance would be hard to find since I dont think that people would generally document such incidents nor intently do so. googling up personal case scenarios might give you the data that you are looking for.

anyway, fwiw, I think I saw an old post in this forum where a damaged K20D was sold due to a fall and a picture of it was provided to show the extent of the damage. I think I had also read some old posts describing how their K10 or K20D were replaced because their camera cracked when their cameras accidentally fell.

Metal points that secure the plastic/fiber shell usually means a good fall gives you decking and seam splitting.

All I know is, during my time in Canon is saw many, many of those 50D, 5D, 1D bodies that took a hell of a beating over the years, dents and dings that I could only imagine would have ended up as a broken Rebel. I cracked my own Rebel just hoisting on my shoulder and walking through a door way, right down the side where the seam was. Granted it still worked, it's not good to have a open crack for debris to get in to.

But those are different cameras, so maybe the fiber shells on the other Pentax cameras are stronger.

**Ex Finn.** · 07-22-2010, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

I like the arrangement of the buttons. I can handle most of them while holding the camera with the right hand - I can keep the left hand on the lens most of the time.

Me too, it is all right there. Stupid thing just feels right in the hand, specially with the grip.
And love the locking mode dial, does not get accidentally changed while operating the exposure mode lever.

07-22-2010, 12:51 PM	#26
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	For the record: the K10D and K200D have the same sensor and hence the same base noise levels, but the K10D's A/D converter introduces more noise of its own than the K200D's (maybe an oversimplified way of putting it, but that's how it works out). Meaning in practice, the K200D is noticeably better than the K10D in terms of high ISO noise whether shooting RAW or JPEG - enough so that the K200D is better then the 6MP cameras to my eye in this respect, but the K10D really isn't. The K20D is a (small) step up from any of these (and the K-x another small step beyond that). The K-7 is, well, somewhere in the middle of all this in my limited experience (just looking at online RAW samples from Imaging Resource and so forth). Somewhat better than the 6MP cameras or the K10D, but still half a notch below the K200D to my eye, and clearly a step below the K20D or K-x.. Of course, this all depends largely on whether you shoot RAW or JPEG and what kind of NR you do on the images. It also depends on what specific ISO level you comare at - at ISO 1600, the differences can be surprisingly small, but do get larger as you get to 3200 or 6400. I generally compare ISO 1600 RAW images with no NR as well as my "best effort" with my basic RAW processing program; I don't tend to care about in-camera JPEG. Note people often make the mistake of comparing at "100%", but that puts higher pixel count cameras at an unfair disadvantage - you're blowing the image up larger. The 6MP cameras look pretty bad when you blow their images up that large, too. Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 07-22-2010 at 01:01 PM.

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07-22-2010, 08:46 AM	#16
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	Originally posted by bodhi08 I feel only one thing is lacking with K7, that is the noise at high ISO. I used K200D for quite a while and I'd say that its pics are cleaner than K7 are at the same (high) ISO. It's also evident when the shadow is made brighter, the noise (chroma noise ?) is worse compared to K200D. I don't know if this is particular to my K7 only but it really bothers me to the point of thinking I should try K20D for a comparison. Is K20D better in this regard? The K10 was, I think, but the K20 and K-7 are about the same. I do prefer K-7's feel over that over the K20. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

07-22-2010, 08:50 AM	#17
kalison Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Utah Posts: 376	I am liking the mode dial lock too. I feel they put in on there because the lug and strap is very close and its commonly touching that dial... while you're walking around I think it would turn a lot. Otherwise I love the size, even with my stupid big hands.

07-22-2010, 08:57 AM	#18
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by Ed n Georgia However, it just doesn't have the nice feel and great ergonomics of my K20D which I've had for a couple of years now. Yes, I know that over time, I'll get used to it and probably begin to like it better. But, each time I use it, I find that I miss the ease of the K20D I feel the same way.l I have big hands and I found the K-7 to be a little smallish and sharper(IOW) than on the K20D contours. BUT... that's just me. My wife on the other hand(hehe) loves it! She has a K-x atm and after handling the K-7 recently she decided to upgrade. I personally think the K-7 is a real ladies camera Perhaps this year they will put a K-x sensor with K-7 electronics in a K20 body

07-22-2010, 09:08 AM	#19
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180	Originally posted by Wheatfield The K200D is still 6mp, right? If so, it isn't surprising that it has better noise than a 14mp camera. It is 10mp but what I didn't expect is the noise is quite evident (noticeable when compared). I was expecting it to be somewhat worse than K200D but not as bad as it actually is. Needless to say, I am disappointed. But that is only one aspect of a great camera

07-22-2010, 09:10 AM	#20
Oscar1 Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 231	I've looked at photos of the K7. We have no Pentax dealer in my town so I can't put my hands on one. I wondered if anyone had an issue with all of the buttons being moved around? Don't think I'll upgrade from my K20D.

07-22-2010, 09:13 AM	#21
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	I like the arrangement of the buttons. I can handle most of them while holding the camera with the right hand - I can keep the left hand on the lens most of the time.

07-22-2010, 09:14 AM	#22
Uncle_dad Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Edgewater Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 111	I miss the SR button and I think with the battery grip the K-7 fits my larger hands real nice. I do not have a grip on the K20D though, so cant really compare it. I never had a problem with the mode dial moving on the K20D so for me its just a pain on the K-7. It would be nice if you could charge the main battery while the grip is on.

07-22-2010, 09:18 AM	#23
Ed n Georgia Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 940 Original Poster	Originally posted by Uncle_dad It would be nice if you could charge the main battery while the grip is on. I'd like that as well. Or, even charge it without having to remove it from the body, grip or not.

07-22-2010, 11:03 AM	#24
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	I like the K-7 because of it's magnesium alloy casing. nothing like having a significant amount of protection.

07-22-2010, 11:56 AM	#25
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	In terms of buttons arrangement, one example: check how easy it is to hold the K-7 with a single hand and adjust the exposure compensation versus doing the same thing on the old body.

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07-22-2010, 02:30 PM	#27
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,205	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Give it some time. I used to think the K10D body was perfect. Now I think the K-7 one is. . . . . . . . Interesting. Successful ergonomics is a function not only of design but also our personal anatomy and mental wiring. Although I've yet to buy one, I loved the feel of the K-7 the moment I picked one up; I've always felt my K20D (and its predecessor, my K10D) to be a bit awkward compared with my first DSLR, a DS2. Glad you're enjoying your camera. Jer Originally posted by Pentaxor I like the K-7 because of it's magnesium alloy casing. nothing like having a significant amount of protection. I've seen no data from Pentax (or anyone else, for that matter) demonstrating that a K-7 is actually more damage resistant than other Pentax cameras in real-world circumstances. Such may, in fact, be the case, but I'd need a little proof before I'd write a check for a K-7 based soley on the expectation that it can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. It's a great camera, nonetheless. Jer

07-22-2010, 03:52 PM	#28
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by Sailor I've seen no data from Pentax (or anyone else, for that matter) demonstrating that a K-7 is actually more damage resistant than other Pentax cameras in real-world circumstances. Such may, in fact, be the case, but I'd need a little proof before I'd write a check for a K-7 based soley on the expectation that it can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. It's a great camera, nonetheless. Jer looking for data regarding damage resistance would be hard to find since I dont think that people would generally document such incidents nor intently do so. googling up personal case scenarios might give you the data that you are looking for. anyway, fwiw, I think I saw an old post in this forum where a damaged K20D was sold due to a fall and a picture of it was provided to show the extent of the damage. I think I had also read some old posts describing how their K10 or K20D were replaced because their camera cracked when their cameras accidentally fell.

07-22-2010, 04:01 PM	#29
kalison Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Utah Posts: 376	Originally posted by Pentaxor looking for data regarding damage resistance would be hard to find since I dont think that people would generally document such incidents nor intently do so. googling up personal case scenarios might give you the data that you are looking for. anyway, fwiw, I think I saw an old post in this forum where a damaged K20D was sold due to a fall and a picture of it was provided to show the extent of the damage. I think I had also read some old posts describing how their K10 or K20D were replaced because their camera cracked when their cameras accidentally fell. Metal points that secure the plastic/fiber shell usually means a good fall gives you decking and seam splitting. All I know is, during my time in Canon is saw many, many of those 50D, 5D, 1D bodies that took a hell of a beating over the years, dents and dings that I could only imagine would have ended up as a broken Rebel. I cracked my own Rebel just hoisting on my shoulder and walking through a door way, right down the side where the seam was. Granted it still worked, it's not good to have a open crack for debris to get in to. But those are different cameras, so maybe the fiber shells on the other Pentax cameras are stronger.

07-22-2010, 04:13 PM	#30
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor I like the arrangement of the buttons. I can handle most of them while holding the camera with the right hand - I can keep the left hand on the lens most of the time. Me too, it is all right there. Stupid thing just feels right in the hand, specially with the grip. And love the locking mode dial, does not get accidentally changed while operating the exposure mode lever.