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07-22-2010, 07:31 PM   #1
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Which weather sealed body to which to upgrade?

I have used my K100ds happily for years... except in the slightest hint of bad weather. I now have a 18-55 WR lens on the way (thanks Aegon!) and am considering which WR body my wife might like to get me for my birthday.

My priorities:
Not too big.
No more noise than the K100ds, shooting regularly at ISO up to 800, if it can be helped.

Not biggies:
Movie mode might help sell my wife, but not really crucial.
I've never used 2 dials or looked through a DSLR pentaprism, although I can manage my PZ-1 and love the VF of an MX.
Have been using AA batteries and am used to them, but sure it could be better.
Price matters, as I will probably pay for it. Certainly, one way or another. :-)

Could care less:
fps, continuous AF speed, lcd size, MP

Currently ranking things, in rough order:
K200d
K7
K10d
K20d
Wait for further developments (WR K-x)

What do those of you with experience with multiple bodies think?
Thanks, Nick

07-22-2010, 09:19 PM   #2
Ash
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Nick, you've listed all the WR bodies, and they're all excellent - it's just a matter of value for money for you.

A K10D can be had for around $300 thesedays - you simply can't buy better for a WR body with 10Mp on a well-designed console. Only issue there is the definite downgrade in high ISO performance.

So that brings me to either the K200D (if you can find one) or the K20D (you should be able to find one). Between those, you'll find the K20D considerably better in high ISO, functionality and user interface - and also that it uses the more reliable Li-ion battery...
07-22-2010, 09:43 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Nick, you've listed all the WR bodies, and they're all excellent - it's just a matter of value for money for you.

A K10D can be had for around $300 thesedays - you simply can't buy better for a WR body with 10Mp on a well-designed console. Only issue there is the definite downgrade in high ISO performance.

So that brings me to either the K200D (if you can find one) or the K20D (you should be able to find one). Between those, you'll find the K20D considerably better in high ISO, functionality and user interface - and also that it uses the more reliable Li-ion battery...
The K200d uses the same sensor as the K10d. I expect the ISO noise will be similar if you use RAW - the jpeg in camera translation may apply a higher degree of noise reduction in one or the other.
07-23-2010, 07:16 AM   #4
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I moved from the K100Ds to the K200D. I like it.
Pros: (K200D vs K100Ds)
It is faster writing to the card. Uses the same batteries. The IQ of the camera sensor is better. The new firmware update seems to be good. Cheaper than K20D, and slightly cheaper than K10D. The fit and feel of the camera is good (for me). The grip is a nice addition and works well. More flash options.
Cons:
The high ISO is not as good as your K100Ds.

07-23-2010, 09:00 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by gp1806 Quote
I moved from the K100Ds to the K200D. I like it.
Pros: (K200D vs K100Ds)
It is faster writing to the card. Uses the same batteries. The IQ of the camera sensor is better. The new firmware update seems to be good. Cheaper than K20D, and slightly cheaper than K10D. The fit and feel of the camera is good (for me). The grip is a nice addition and works well. More flash options.
Cons:
The high ISO is not as good as your K100Ds.
How much of the lesser high ISO quality is due to the finer resolution in the 10.2 Mp sensor? Or, to put it the other way up, how much is due to the larger capture pixels in the 6 Mp sensor? This is a question that has bothered me for some time, and I am curious.
07-23-2010, 10:20 AM   #6
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I went from the K100 to the K20 a bit over a year ago. I have been very pleasantly surprised with the high ISO of the K20 - a bit of PP noise reduction and its just fine - however I am not a big user of it. One thing I did want was ISO 100 (90% of my images). The K20's resolution is great, however using it as a benchmark made me appreciate how good the K100 is (I still have mine). The two wheels are really worth wild along with the bracketing button. One other thing was I could not do the 2 second mirror up delay with bracketing on the K100.

All of that said, I believe that most if not all would also apply to the K10. I think it all boils down to the price of the possible upgrade.

07-23-2010, 02:08 PM   #7
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Albert, no scientific explanation here, but in my mind the two factors (loss of high ISO performance vs higher resolution) cancelled each other out somewhat going from the K100D to the K10D. I also had the *ist D for a while and can say the 6Mp sensor was a joy to shoot with - brilliant colours and contrast, smoother textures than with the 10Mp sensor.

On noise comparisons, I'd still go with the 6Mp sensor trumping the downsized 10Mp sensor ISO for ISO. There isn't enough a difference in resolution as there is in high ISO performance (only going from 3000px to 3800+px vs a full stop of useable high ISO performance).
07-23-2010, 02:34 PM   #8
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My K10, same body as K20, has been submerged in a muddy river, I use it for photographing 4x4 trials in all weathers. There's dust in the dry weather and mud in the rain, my K10 has seen its fair share of both with no problems whatsoever,

When Canonikon users run for cover, I take pictures.

07-23-2010, 07:46 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Albert, no scientific explanation here, but in my mind the two factors (loss of high ISO performance vs higher resolution) cancelled each other out somewhat going from the K100D to the K10D. I also had the *ist D for a while and can say the 6Mp sensor was a joy to shoot with - brilliant colours and contrast, smoother textures than with the 10Mp sensor.

On noise comparisons, I'd still go with the 6Mp sensor trumping the downsized 10Mp sensor ISO for ISO. There isn't enough a difference in resolution as there is in high ISO performance (only going from 3000px to 3800+px vs a full stop of useable high ISO performance).
Thanks, Ash. Answers some of my curiosity.
07-24-2010, 08:02 PM   #10
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Thanks to all who have chimed in thus far! It really does sound like there are no bad choices here. I am leaning toward a k200d, but may just wait to see what is announced in the fall. If nothing else, if they introduce a new weather-sealed body the prices of the "old" used ones should come down further. Right?
07-27-2010, 07:32 PM   #11
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Well I jumped on a K20. Hoping it works out!
08-11-2010, 06:27 AM   #12
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I haven't used it in weather yet, but the K20d does seem to be a nice upgrade from the K100ds. I got one with a grip, and really the combo is much too big for me, but the camera alone I think I will enjoy a lot. And high ISO pictures fron the K20 look great, much better than I had been led to believe. Thanks for the advice, all!
08-11-2010, 07:42 PM   #13
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I have the original k100 and the k200. I like the WR, but I don't feel you would need to put your k100 away at the slightest hint of bad weather. I've used mine is moderate rain, and although I once found a giant water drop under the top lcd, it didn't affect functionality, and went away after a blow-drying. I sometimes take a 1 gallon clear plastic bag with a lens cutout, for heavier rain. In really bad conditions the lens would still be subject to damage.

Paul
08-11-2010, 07:56 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by tibbitts Quote
I have the original k100 and the k200. I like the WR, but I don't feel you would need to put your k100 away at the slightest hint of bad weather. I've used mine is moderate rain, and although I once found a giant water drop under the top lcd, it didn't affect functionality, and went away after a blow-drying. I sometimes take a 1 gallon clear plastic bag with a lens cutout, for heavier rain. In really bad conditions the lens would still be subject to damage.

Paul
Paul,
I had the same concern with my old manual lenses. You might want to check out one of these:
Amazon.com: Vortex Media Storm Jacket Cover for an SLR Camera with a Medium Lens Measuring 7" to 15" from Rear of Body…
10-16-2010, 08:07 PM   #15
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As an update, for anyone who cares, here's my evaluation of the jump from K100ds to K20d.

What I like a lot more than I expected:
The battery - so much more consistent and long lasting than my rechargable AAs. By far the biggest plus.
The viewfinder and LCD - crisper and brighter.
Focus adjustment - has really helped rescue a few lenses I was going to give up on.
Better high ISO - gain about a stop, I think. 1600 very usable, comparable to 800 on the K100ds.
Easy access to ISO adjustment
Auto WB seems a lot better


Things that I expected to be better:
IQ - don't really see much difference in most shots. Maybe a little more detail/able to crop more, but somehow I was expecting pixie dust and there's no more or less than before.
Two edials - I am only a few months in, but they mostly just confuse me. Which one controls what, which way to turn it for up/down, etc. It doesn't help that I have switched settings a few times, looking for the ideal for me. I should just pick a way and leave it, I guess.

Random thoughts
Definitely bigger and heavier, but not ridiculously so, as I imagined/feared.
Haven't used weather-sealing yet
Haven't used live view
File sizes are big! Computer runs slow processing RAW, so I have for the time being switched to jpeg. Not missing too many shots, though, which is nice - less PP time.

All in all, a big step up in usability, and maybe a small improvement in some pictures.
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