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08-03-2010, 05:29 AM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I also like Auto ISO. With the K-x there is little reason to be worried about high ISO.

Most of the time in daylight - even when birding - I have it set at Auto - 3200 and on Av, and the camera chooses ISO and shutter speed pretty sensibly depending on my lens etc. If I'm out shooting live music in a pub or club I let it go to Auto - 5000. If I'm walking about in a dim museum or at night, I let it go to Auto - 12800.

PP can clean up any noise, if it gets noticeable.
1) PP = time. Get it right the first time.

2) I set my ISO to Auto with a 1 stop difference. Any more than that and I start to lose contrast and resolution beyond my intent. Outdoors I set it between 200-400 (K-x) because that is where the sensor peaks. Indoors 400-800, with bounce flash or natural light, depending. In extremis, ISO 1600 because by then there is a noticeable loss of colour fidelity. At 3200 not only is there visible noise (NOT "grain"), but distinct loss of DR.

I think there is a solid case for Auto ISO, but as with most things, there are limitations to its practical functionality. There's nothing worse than having the camera bump the ISO to something ridiculous for a well-lit outdoor scene because there is some low contrast area, when what is really required is EV alteration. This is where Auto ISO really messes up. If not prescribed properly in Auto mode, it simply becomes the wrong tool for a correct exposure.

08-03-2010, 05:46 AM   #32
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Your comments are of course most sensible, Aristophanes. I am usually too casual in my shooting style, and if truth be told sometimes the results show it.

Most people should probably be more conservative with high ISO, even on the K-x, than I.
08-03-2010, 06:56 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ken T Quote
You need to know wether the picture is under or over-exposed . Get the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson and read the User Manual .
Started reading some photography books now, starting with the manual

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I also like Auto ISO. With the K-x there is little reason to be worried about high ISO.

Most of the time in daylight - even when birding - I have it set at Auto - 3200 and on Av, and the camera chooses ISO and shutter speed pretty sensibly depending on my lens etc. If I'm out shooting live music in a pub or club I let it go to Auto - 5000. If I'm walking about in a dim museum or at night, I let it go to Auto - 12800.

PP can clean up any noise, if it gets noticeable.
Very nicely put ISO variations. Will write that down

QuoteOriginally posted by Pixel Pusher Quote
There should be little if any noise ("grains") in your ISO200 shots, and only in the deepest shadow areas, assuming you have properly exposed the shot.

I feel your pain, and have made the same mistake (leaving set on 6400) before.

Keep reading the manual and learning about the different shooting modes. Any new camera requires a bit of a learning curve in order to get the most out of it.
Ohh okay.. I though at ISO 200 there should be less grains. Learnt yesterday that ISO800 and F8.0, the camera behaves good!

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Even if you spent $10,000 on your camera, and even if you shot at low ISO's like 100 or 200 ISO, you would still see 'grains' in dark or under-exposed areas and shadows if you looked at your 12 MP images at 100% magnification on-screen on your computer.

Examine the low-ISO images on the site below closely - even from some of the most expensive DSLR cameras on Earth - and you will see similar 'grains' in dark or under-exposed areas:

Imaging Resource "Comparometer" Digital Camera Image Comparison Page

Eg this is a comparison of the treatment of shadow areas by the AUD$3500 Nikon D700 professional full-frame camera (at left) and the $AUD 750 K-x (at right), shot at 100 ISO. Both show similar but barely noticeable levels of 'grain' at the lowest ISO.


For compparison purposes, this is the same scene shot by the same cameras at 6400 ISO - D700 on left, K-x on right:


You also have to remember that when printed even at A4 or displayed at normal viewing size on screen, you won't see any 'grain', or certainly not enough to worry about, even when shooting at 3200 ISO with something like the K-x.

In short, relax, stop pixel-peeping, learn to expose to avoid under-exposure, take lots of photos, enjoy your camera. Even if you spent thousands of dollars more on another camera, you would face the same issues of 'grains'.
That was really very helpful info rawr. Thanks a ton mate! Appreciate it

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
1) PP = time. Get it right the first time.

2) I set my ISO to Auto with a 1 stop difference. Any more than that and I start to lose contrast and resolution beyond my intent. Outdoors I set it between 200-400 (K-x) because that is where the sensor peaks. Indoors 400-800, with bounce flash or natural light, depending. In extremis, ISO 1600 because by then there is a noticeable loss of colour fidelity. At 3200 not only is there visible noise (NOT "grain"), but distinct loss of DR.

I think there is a solid case for Auto ISO, but as with most things, there are limitations to its practical functionality. There's nothing worse than having the camera bump the ISO to something ridiculous for a well-lit outdoor scene because there is some low contrast area, when what is really required is EV alteration. This is where Auto ISO really messes up. If not prescribed properly in Auto mode, it simply becomes the wrong tool for a correct exposure.
yeah exactly. I tried taking few shots yesterday with Auto ISO 200-800 and the camera choose 800 and i tried manually with 400 and the later was brilliant!

Thanks everyone for the help, I am really glad that I joined this forum!
12-14-2010, 09:53 PM   #34
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Wow, look at the huge color change on some of the text in the last Kx shot, compared with the Nikon. (where it says "independent British Brewery") What accounts for that?

12-14-2010, 09:55 PM   #35
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Oops, sorry to bump this thread needlessly folks; I didn't notice how old it was...
12-16-2010, 03:01 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentup Quote
Oops, sorry to bump this thread needlessly folks; I didn't notice how old it was...
OK with me, it is still interesting. There is quite a difference in those letters. But the Nikon is about 5 times as much money, there should be a difference.

Although in the first photos, the grey mug actually looks better with the Kx.
12-18-2010, 04:32 AM   #37
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I wonder if the desaturation of those letters occurred because of color noise removal -- the text was small enough that the color was interpreted as noise... ?
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