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03-17-2011, 03:20 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Of course the user makes a big difference. But given that the "Dude" cannot change into your son the Yamaha is still the better choice for him. Your son was faster with the Yahama as well.

Hence, equipment matters. It cannot turn a mediocre user into a great user but better equipment almost helps every user, no matter their skill level. So what's to say against choosing the best equipment one can afford?
There is nothing against that, but there are many people who switch from brand A to brand B, believing that there issues have been due to the poor equipment available from brand A, when they really need to be working on their own skills. It helps me to be honest and to realize first of all, that I screw up most of the photos of mine that don't turn out and to think proactively about how I can improve in the future.

The majority of photographers will not see a difference between Canon/Nikon/Sony/Pentax equipment, unless they compare different size sensors or, different tier lenses.

03-17-2011, 05:44 AM   #167
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The only pro's that I know, and there are quite a few in our club don't have brand snobishness to this extent. On our club walkabout and drinking session last night there were 2 canons, a Sony and 2 pentaxes.

I was surprised when one of the pros asked about my fastest lens. When I told her it was a 1.7 she was surprised. She'd never heard of an F-Stop at 1.7. Shes a canon user and they and Nikon have only 1.8. From what I found on the web Everyone else, Minolta, Olympus, Pentax, Ziess..... use 1.7. Just shows that you know what you use.

I do have a 1.8 on the way, pixie dust included!
03-17-2011, 08:31 AM   #168
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Canikon have some 1.2 and 1.4 in their current lines. I think one or the other may have a legacy 1.0 or .95 aperture in their lines as well.
03-17-2011, 08:38 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Of course the user makes a big difference. But given that the "Dude" cannot change into your son the Yamaha is still the better choice for him. Your son was faster with the Yahama as well.

Hence, equipment matters. It cannot turn a mediocre user into a great user but better equipment almost helps every user, no matter their skill level. So what's to say against choosing the best equipment one can afford?
It's like anything else that uses technology. Tiger woods could hit a great game with house clubs, but I wouldn't be any better with his clubs. Better gear makes it easier if you know how to handle it.

03-17-2011, 08:52 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
Canikon have some 1.2 and 1.4 in their current lines. I think one or the other may have a legacy 1.0 or .95 aperture in their lines as well.
I meant a 1.8 instead of 1.7 for the 'normal' 50ish aperture. I knew that they have them faster and slower.
03-17-2011, 05:26 PM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by VaughnA Quote
I think one or the other may have a legacy 1.0 or .95 aperture in their lines as well.
the canon EF 50mm f/1.0 is a disaster of a lens,focuses slowly, has more coma than you can poke a stick at. I know this isn't a fair comparison but the Leica-M 50mm f/1.0 is vastly superior optically.

Canon did make a f/0.95 rangefinder lens, but the optical design they used was very heavy and obscured half of the viewfinder on most cameras. The leica 50mm f/0.95 ASPH that I own is again, optically superior to the canon lens.
03-18-2011, 07:37 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
the canon EF 50mm f/1.0 is a disaster of a lens,focuses slowly, has more coma than you can poke a stick at. I know this isn't a fair comparison but the Leica-M 50mm f/1.0 is vastly superior optically.

Canon did make a f/0.95 rangefinder lens, but the optical design they used was very heavy and obscured half of the viewfinder on most cameras. The leica 50mm f/0.95 ASPH that I own is again, optically superior to the canon lens.
Not much can compare with Leica glass their may be a few gems here and their from other manufactures that are as good or better, but I think in general Leica have the best glass.

Making a good large aperture lens is difficult compared to smaller lenses. Also a lot of manufacturers' lenses are not sharp wide open, Leica's are typically noted for being sharp throughout the entire range.

For the most part with glass, you get what you pay for.
03-18-2011, 08:38 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Of course the user makes a big difference. But given that the "Dude" cannot change into your son the Yamaha is still the better choice for him. Your son was faster with the Yahama as well.
Because he rode the Yamaha harder. We were just breaking the Husky in initially. Ultimately (in the race) he was fastest on the Husky. Which I would expect as that is what he is used to.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Hence, equipment matters. It cannot turn a mediocre user into a great user but better equipment almost helps every user, no matter their skill level. So what's to say against choosing the best equipment one can afford?
Point is taken. It does matter, but IMO only a bit, and not as much as people tend to think.

03-18-2011, 09:44 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
Not much can compare with Leica glass their may be a few gems here and their from other manufactures that are as good or better, but I think in general Leica have the best glass.

Making a good large aperture lens is difficult compared to smaller lenses. Also a lot of manufacturers' lenses are not sharp wide open, Leica's are typically noted for being sharp throughout the entire range.

For the most part with glass, you get what you pay for.
Digitalis has said, however, that he feel like the FA limiteds and 50mm f1.2 rank up there with sharpness and rendering with the best that Leica has to offer. Pretty strong words there.
03-18-2011, 09:53 AM   #175
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I believe i've seen him say the same on the FA 31
And i've read more than once the LTM fa43 is a very nice lens competing well with the leica on it's own territory (though die hard leica-philes will never admit even owning one, it would be heresy)
03-18-2011, 02:15 PM   #176
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was it the FA43 which was mentioned to be of Leica sharpness and even adapted to the RF mounted cameras?
03-18-2011, 03:28 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by BillO Quote
It does matter, but IMO only a bit, and not as much as people tend to think.
True!

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Digitalis has said, however, that he feel like the FA limiteds and 50mm f1.2 rank up there with sharpness and rendering with the best that Leica has to offer. Pretty strong words there.
I personally don't think the 50/1.2 is up there. Certainly not the copy I used. The FA 31/1.8 clearly is an outstanding lens.
03-18-2011, 03:51 PM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
was it the FA43 which was mentioned to be of Leica sharpness and even adapted to the RF mounted cameras?
the FA 43 was the only lens Pentax has released in a mount other than a pentax mount
though it is debabtable whether they made it or Cosina did wuth their optics
Steven Goudy has a page on the FA limiteds

http://www.cameraquest.com/pen4319.htm
03-18-2011, 06:11 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I personally don't think the 50/1.2 is up there. Certainly not the copy I used. The FA 31/1.8 clearly is an outstanding lens.
Then you must have experienced some copy variation, because my SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 is simply brilliant (when it is stopped down) though wide open it is acceptable with the appropriate sharpening and contrast tweaks, bear in mind the images from the noctilux 50mm f/1.0 require similar treatment. I typically do not compare rangefinder lenses with SLR lenses because of the vast differences in the film flange distances - it is much easier to design lenses with excellent optics when the film/sensor is close to the rear of the lens (but not too close) With SLR designs there are a lot of compromises involved and the biggest one is the reflex mirror, the next is the lens mount diameter,and the last is how much people are willing to pay.

After doing some admittedly un-scientific testing* with my Leica M9 and a novoflex M to K mount adapter - As far as I can see the pentax FA31mm f/1.8 limited is one of the greatest lenses of it's kind. The FA 43mm f/1.9 while it isn't as sharp as the summilux-m 50mm f/1.4 in the corners wide open, at f/2.8 both lenses are evenly matched in colour and contrast rendition, and beating the Leica lens in terms of flare tolerance.

*There is no RF coupling with this adapter. So I was focusing by the distance scale, which was surprisingly accurate.

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-18-2011 at 06:19 PM.
03-19-2011, 03:45 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Then you must have experienced some copy variation, because my SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 is simply brilliant (when it is stopped down) though wide open it is acceptable with the appropriate sharpening and contrast tweaks, bear in mind the images from the noctilux 50mm f/1.0 require similar treatment. I typically do not compare rangefinder lenses with SLR lenses because of the vast differences in the film flange distances - it is much easier to design lenses with excellent optics when the film/sensor is close to the rear of the lens (but not too close) With SLR designs there are a lot of compromises involved and the biggest one is the reflex mirror, the next is the lens mount diameter,and the last is how much people are willing to pay.

After doing some admittedly un-scientific testing* with my Leica M9 and a novoflex M to K mount adapter - As far as I can see the pentax FA31mm f/1.8 limited is one of the greatest lenses of it's kind. The FA 43mm f/1.9 while it isn't as sharp as the summilux-m 50mm f/1.4 in the corners wide open, at f/2.8 both lenses are evenly matched in colour and contrast rendition, and beating the Leica lens in terms of flare tolerance.

*There is no RF coupling with this adapter. So I was focusing by the distance scale, which was surprisingly accurate.
How about the FA 200 macro? I wish Pentax would release this lens again, even if it had a price tag where I could just stand there and drool.
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