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08-02-2010, 04:09 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Pentax, in my opinion, made a huge blunder over a couple of decades by allowing their 35mm cameras to fall so far behind the curve. By not marketing to that class of pro photographer, they have taken themselves from a manufacturer to be respected to one to be mocked.
Yes I agree. For a long the Pentax management sat on their laurels and did not produce the pro-spec LX until very late, and even then it wasn't as tough and reliable as the Nikon F2/F3 or Canon F1. Nikon and Canon used pyramid of influence marketing successfully, putting Nikons and Canons into the hands of working pros who endorsed the products. This strategy meant that in the minds of photo enthusiasts, they could get results and reliability like the pros, even though they probably never got images anything near what the pros got. The mistake then was no upgrade path for those who wanted a better camera than the mass market 35mm SLRs but who wanted to stick to 35mm and not jump to medium format. The company stagnated and went downhill from then on. Thank God for Hoya to boot out the old Pentax management and take over.

08-02-2010, 04:17 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by phuey Quote
when the "professional" photographer asked me "Pentax? Why pentax?"

From then we had a full blown conversation......
Professionals do not engage in debates while on the job.
08-02-2010, 04:35 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by phuey Quote
I was walking around with my limited lenses on my k-x taking random photos of relatives, etc when the "professional" photographer asked me "Pentax? Why pentax?"
It's tough not get drawn in, though beleive it or not, the world is full of people like this.
But if it were me... I would have really pushed the FF comparison with respect to low light and DR.

ie. can you imagine... a 450 dollar entry level camera rivaling a 2500.00 professional camera? And so now you know why I shoot Pentax. Best investment ever!

And remember... don't forget to smile when serving people.
08-02-2010, 04:56 PM - 6 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
Professionals do not engage in debates while on the job.
Right, especially not with one of the guests!

As a Pentax-using wedding pro myself, I get the "Why Pentax?" question occasionally, from guests. Generally speaking I do not have time to jawbone with the guests about camera equipment, but if there's a lull in the action I may exchange a few words on the subject. First thing I try to do is guess the motives of the person asking the question.

Normally the questioner is a normal, sensible amateur who knows they don't know a lot about photography and who asks their question out of sincere curiosity. They have a Canon XSi or a Nikon D5000 or something like that because that's what the person at the camera store told them to buy, and now they see the pro using Pentax and they wonder. I deal very gently with this sort of question, reassuring the asker that there are NO bad bodies on the market these days and they have a fine camera. This makes them happy. If they continue to ask why I use Pentax, I'll point out that I am personally very fond of shooting with primes and that Pentax has a unique line-up of superior-quality prime lenses. I may have to explain what a prime lens is. If I happen to have the 21 or 40 or 70mm lens on one of my cameras at the moment—which I probably do—this helps me make the case, because these lens do NOT look like the lenses that amateurs have for their cameras. I might also mention weather-sealing, etc.

On the other hand, occasionally the question is asked by Uncle Bob, the stock broker who brought his D3s with the 70-200 f/2.8 lens and who KNOWS he has the best camera in the world, because he knows that he paid a fortune for it. The only way to deal with Uncle Bob is to compliment him on his camera and possibly express a little envy, both of which I can do sincerely. This makes him happy. If I can't get away at this point, I may go on to explain that his camera's low-light, high-ISO advantage matters to me only 10% of the time in my work, but that even then, my fast primes partially give me a one-stop advantage that at least partially compensates for the smaller sensor, and that I can do pretty well at least up to ISO 2000, especially with the fantastic advances in noise reduction in Lightroom 3, blah blah blah. Uncle Bob at this point is probably trying to get away from ME.

If not, I might add that processing 1000 images that are 20+ MB in size is a huge and unnecessary hassle that would add hours and hours to my work load after the wedding. (I really try NOT to take 1000 images at a wedding, but Uncle Bob doesn't know this and is almost certainly the kind of person who would be impressed by a larger number. Uncle Bob likes large.) I may also defend my choice by pointing out that, in my line of work, it's imperative for me to have multiple bodies and a large arsenal of lenses, not to mention flashes, etc., so I am unable to sink my budget into a single camera; and I would add that Pentax has the lowest-priced weather-sealed bodies, etc. Uncle Bob can appreciate thrift, even if he doesn't practice it himself.

I probably do NOT throw in the bit about the prime lenses because Uncle Bob is almost certainly not going to understand this. For him, the sheer size of his camera and its lens are symbols of his own virility, so showing him my own little wee-wee may simply invite his ridicule. I have to assess this carefully.

I keep thinking that I need to answer this question on my blog. Then I can give the questioner a business card and invite them to check out the post, and excuse myself.

It's an occupational hazard. Generally speaking, I try to avoid getting into conversations with the guests. No good can come of it.

Will


Last edited by WMBP; 08-03-2010 at 08:41 AM.
08-02-2010, 06:02 PM   #35
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I sometimes talk bad about Nikon and Canon system, such as, Nikon's entry-level DSLRs don't have AF motor built in their bodies; Canon's entry-level DSLRs feel like cheap-ass plastic(oh wait, they are plastic)...
But anyway, what I am trying to say is that everybody has its own opinions, let them judge however they want, as long as Pentax shooter can produce as good photos as the Nikon and Canon users, at the end of the day, thats all it matters. Pentax FA limited glasses are best among the bests out there, when they are paired with our Pentax DSLRs, the results are outstanding... thats why I am keeping all my FA limited and FA* 85/1.4...
But I am getting a second system for Nikon's 3D Matric AF tracking, very accurate... I am sure won't let my Pentax go at all, will continue to support Pentax...
To those haters, they are just jealous of our glasses... I think one thing Pentax should have been doing is to continue to product the legendary FA* longer glasses, to give use more options when comes to sports or so on. I mean the 3rd party glasses are alright, but those long FA* glasses can't be replace....
08-02-2010, 07:38 PM - 1 Like   #36
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I always wonder when people talk Pentax they mention the LX as the last pro body. Where is the love for the PZ1p (or PZ1)? 1/8000 shutter at 4 fps, comparable autofocus to other film bodies at the time. In fact this camera introduced me to photography. It was years later before i learned of * and limited lenses. At the time I got my PZ1-p i chose it over the nikon f5 because it offered comparable specs at 1/5 the price. In my opinion this camera is the pinnacle of Pentax film cameras and was never bested by any of it's successors. Perhaps if I have time I will include an interesting conversation i had some years ago with a pro shooting the same event as me using a PZ1p instead of his F-5.
08-02-2010, 07:49 PM   #37
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I went to shoot on my friend's wedding
just there to capture some moments

they hired a professional photographer as well
then the photographer said "why pentax?"

I immediately handed my Kx to him
and after a while he asked me

"are you selling your Kx?... Im willing to buy it from you"


I just made a big grin..

words cant describe how great a Pentax performs
touch it, feel it, use it.. and then you'll know


he's using a can-on 50D btw
08-03-2010, 08:03 AM   #38
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We keep talking about Pentax bodies being the reason that more pros chose Nikon and Canon over Pentax, but it always seemed to me that it was the lack of high-end glass (zooms and long, fast telephotos) that did far more harm to Pentax. Those lenses WERE available in Pentax mount, but they were always pretty scarce. They were often more expensive, too, simply because Pentax wasn't making them in large enough numbers to be able to bring their costs down.

08-03-2010, 08:16 AM   #39
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I attended the wedding of my niece recently and took my Kx. They had hired a pro with an incredible Canon 5D setup. I introduced myself and told him I would be shooting some candid shots. His reply was truly professional. "We can use every picture we can get," he said with a smile.
08-03-2010, 09:50 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
We keep talking about Pentax bodies being the reason that more pros chose Nikon and Canon over Pentax, but it always seemed to me that it was the lack of high-end glass (zooms and long, fast telephotos) that did far more harm to Pentax. Those lenses WERE available in Pentax mount, but they were always pretty scarce. They were often more expensive, too, simply because Pentax wasn't making them in large enough numbers to be able to bring their costs down.
One follows the other. The fact that they didn't have pro end bodies and support to draw in that user base meant that there was less demand for the high end glass.
It all comes back to the lack of cutting edge bodies, which by the mid 1980s they had well and truly fallen behind with.
08-03-2010, 10:21 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
One follows the other. The fact that they didn't have pro end bodies and support to draw in that user base meant that there was less demand for the high end glass.
It all comes back to the lack of cutting edge bodies, which by the mid 1980s they had well and truly fallen behind with.
I think it's a bit of a "chicken or egg" argument because regardless of whether you looked at the camera bodies or the lens offerings, all the Pentax products in the 35mm 'pro' range involved some sort of compromise.
08-03-2010, 10:39 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by tarsus Quote
I attended the wedding of my niece recently and took my Kx. They had hired a pro with an incredible Canon 5D setup. I introduced myself and told him I would be shooting some candid shots. His reply was truly professional. "We can use every picture we can get," he said with a smile.
Ah-ha, we have a winner! Don't forget to ask the pro if he or she minds you shooting as well. It's not a requirement but it is a courtesy.

The guy my wife and I hired to shoot our wedding shot everything using two Hasselblads and Kodak film, and did a brilliant job. I'm not sure where the need for massive amounts of equipment came from over the years. A couple of posters mentioned flash systems - the use of flash is typically prohibited during wedding ceremonies and even some receptions.

And our pro-photog didn't mind at all if our guests also took photos. He even took some shots for them using their cameras, point-and-shooters to SLRs.
08-03-2010, 12:04 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by B Grace Quote
Ah-ha, we have a winner! Don't forget to ask the pro if he or she minds you shooting as well. It's not a requirement but it is a courtesy.

The guy my wife and I hired to shoot our wedding shot everything using two Hasselblads and Kodak film, and did a brilliant job. I'm not sure where the need for massive amounts of equipment came from over the years. A couple of posters mentioned flash systems - the use of flash is typically prohibited during wedding ceremonies and even some receptions.

And our pro-photog didn't mind at all if our guests also took photos. He even took some shots for them using their cameras, point-and-shooters to SLRs.
Flash is often prohibited during the actual wedding, but I've never seen a flashless reception. Usually there are dozens of P&S cameras flashing away as well as the pro.
08-03-2010, 12:44 PM   #44
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Having not read any comments other than the header; i can assure you, real professionals are just that, they don't talk smack about others equipment because real professionals talk with their images.
08-03-2010, 12:53 PM   #45
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I think there certainly is brand elitism out there, particularly among younger professional photographers I've encountered. At the same time, I think Pentax users are just as often guilty of feeling a lack of confidence in what they use, so they sometimes take minor jabs as major offenses. If you're comfortable with your own equipment and why you use it, it doesn't really matter in the end.

As a sort of counterpoint to this thread, I was the second shooter for a wedding the other day, and the main shooter (who was using a Canon 5D Mark II and Canon 1D Mark IV) made a point of telling me that "Your Pentax takes nice images." So, like with anything else, there are all types of shooters out there, some nice, some not so nice.

Last edited by Urkeldaedalus; 08-03-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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