[Canada_Rockies]

<SNIP> ...

So I still say, it's more the guy behind the lens than anything else. I can take good picturs with a cheap P&S, a 35mm SLR, 35mm instamatic, (I have 2) or a DSLR. Brand, I don't care...but if I have to pay for it, I'm getting the one that uses the lenses I already have...Pentax...Just like guitars, I play whatever I can afford that's good quality, and I've shown up at auditions with a 6 or 8 watt Fender Champ made in 1974 and gotten "that look" that someone else mentioned...but once they heard that little screamer, it was all over with, usually people are very impressed with that little amp. Ditto for my stage rig, I've seen die hard Marshall fans tell me how good my 1973 Fender Super Reverb sounds. Same thing, it's the guy behind the lens...the guy with the guitar in his hands. I've seen plenty amateur players that sound like crap on my rig. I let very few even touch it...If you can PLAY, you can make any guitar sound good. If you are a photographer, you can use anything and get good pictures, probably even an old Polaroid. One of the best pictures I ever shot was a hummingbird with my brother's old Yashica rangefinder camera...

Well put, Pete. I'm using Pentax equipment because I started with Pentax. I don't like the ergonomics of Canon, but that is simply personal taste. They take great pictures and bad ones, just as my Pentaxes do. I feel somewhat at home with Nikon gear, probably because they zoom and focus in the same direction on the rings as Pentax, and opposite to Canon.

It's like modern day cars and trucks. There really are not any bad ones, particularly if you compare reliability, comfort, maintenance sequences and so forth with the ones built when I got my driver's license in 1956. Some others on this list will certainly remember that it was routine to do a valve job after 25,000 miles, rings and bearings at 50,000, valves again at 75,000 and put in a rebuilt engine at 100,000. Now there are vehicles out there that do a first spark plug change at 100,000.

Now we have cameras that use ISO settings that did not even exist with film. We have frame rates that would have floored a press photographer. We have cameras that focus by themselves, and set the aperture and shutter speed all by themselves, and you can change the film speed on the fly! WOW!

[Kerrowdown]

Well put, Pete. I'm using Pentax equipment because I started with Pentax. I don't like the ergonomics of Canon, but that is simply personal taste. They take great pictures and bad ones, just as my Pentaxes do. I feel somewhat at home with Nikon gear, probably because they zoom and focus in the same direction on the rings as Pentax, and opposite to Canon.

It's like modern day cars and trucks. There really are not any bad ones, particularly if you compare reliability, comfort, maintenance sequences and so forth with the ones built when I got my driver's license in 1956. Some others on this list will certainly remember that it was routine to do a valve job after 25,000 miles, rings and bearings at 50,000, valves again at 75,000 and put in a rebuilt engine at 100,000. Now there are vehicles out there that do a first spark plug change at 100,000.

Now we have cameras that use ISO settings that did not even exist with film. We have frame rates that would have floored a press photographer. We have cameras that focus by themselves, and set the aperture and shutter speed all by themselves, and you can change the film speed on the fly! WOW!

Aye right enough, how we quickly forget what was the norm and not that long ago, best count our modern blessings, my jobs a damn site easier now for sure.

[cpk]

Did you ever try this same test, but with your Leica M lenses instead of Leicaflex lenses? I'm asking because my experience with Leicaflex lenses is similar to yours. Pentax holds up pretty well, but so do Nikon and Canon. I can't say the same for shots with Leica M lenses. When shot from a tripod and the focus and exposure are dead on, there is a noticable difference to me.

No, I didn't. For my available-light work I had the best that money could buy at the time (the Leica Ms with their lenses) and saw no need to run such a test. My concern was with the reflexes which were to be used outdoors with colour film. Thinking about it now, ideally I should have tested against the equivalent Nikon gear; but the Leicaflex was free to use for a weekend in my case. It is interesting that you had similar results. As I noted about the Pentax lenses I had purchased, if I had bought the Nikon I would have purchased the slower lenses in that system as well.

[Digitalis]

I see the odd Pentax DSLR out in the wild sometimes I have seen olympus cameras every now and then thought they aren't any where near as popular as Canon or Nikon is amongst Pro photographers. Most of my colleagues use Nikon, Canon and kodak DSLR camera...i'm the only one that uses pentax for work - but I also use Canon, Nikon, Ebony, Sinar Hasselblad and Leica.

I have see the occasional Leica out in the wild too,usually with a tri-elmar on it.

[KxBlaze]

Even non-pros talk trash about Pentax. A friend of mine has never owned a DSLR before and went out and bought a 7D. Shot for about a month and decided he wanted a 5D MKII (he's got the money to spare). I got my Kx after his switch and brought it over to his house one day. Since we are friends it was a very friendly conversation but he told me I should have bought a T2i instead but could not back that up with why I should have. I proceeded to talk trash about his knowledge of cameras and about him as a person in general. Nothing I said changed his mind but this just goes to show that it's not just the Pros, it's the Joes that talk too.

[lesmore49]

Well put, Pete. I'm using Pentax equipment because I started with Pentax. I don't like the ergonomics of Canon, but that is simply personal taste. They take great pictures and bad ones, just as my Pentaxes do. I feel somewhat at home with Nikon gear, probably because they zoom and focus in the same direction on the rings as Pentax, and opposite to Canon.

It's like modern day cars and trucks. There really are not any bad ones, particularly if you compare reliability, comfort, maintenance sequences and so forth with the ones built when I got my driver's license in 1956. Some others on this list will certainly remember that it was routine to do a valve job after 25,000 miles, rings and bearings at 50,000, valves again at 75,000 and put in a rebuilt engine at 100,000. Now there are vehicles out there that do a first spark plug change at 100,000.

Now we have cameras that use ISO settings that did not even exist with film. We have frame rates that would have floored a press photographer. We have cameras that focus by themselves, and set the aperture and shutter speed all by themselves, and you can change the film speed on the fly! WOW!

I couldn't of said it better. Like Canada Rockies....I'm also an old cowhand. I got my driver's license in 1965 and my first 35 mm SLR in 1968...a Pentax S1a.

I recall how engine rebuilds were common, how Sears and Cdn. Tire and Eaton's used to sell rebuilt engines and list the prices in their catalogs (another thing gone by the wayside).

Pretty well all cars are good now ...so are cameras.

I have a lot of Pentax stuff...current and old ...I kept in the Pentax system for digital...although I did look closely at getting either a Nikon D200 or a Canon 30D...but then the K10D came out and I'm very happy with that camera.

I kept with Pentax because I've had a number of 35mm SLR bodies and lenses and they have always performed very well and are reliable and durable.

I also have the Pentax 35-105 A zoom and I wanted to use it with digital. Excellent glass.

Funny thing though, since I bought my K10D in 2007...I rarely use it...as I've bought about 7 digital Pentax lenses....all of which I like, except for the plastic mounted kit lens 18-55 that came on my KM body.

Some of my stellar Pentax lenses that are tremendous...my 12-24, my 10-17 Fisheye, 50 F1.4 normal, 50 F2.8 Macro....55-300 telephoto.

So I suppose I stayed with Pentax because of the excellent lenses.

[MartinE]

Some very good comments and reasoning here.

I, like most started with Pentax, and have stayed here. The fact that I could use my old film lenses on the digital was the biggest bonus. I did this for years until I finally got the money to upgrade as I saw fit. I'm now running a full digital capable outfit and am just loving the quality the K-7 spits out.

And that was one of the key things I found. I have a good friend that has helped me alot with my new venture of Glam photography. He said the same thing to me: "Pentax?? Why??" I then logged onto my own site and said this is why... Showed him some of the shots I have taken from my own gear compared with his $10,000+ fit out. And yes of course, the quality was not as great, but even he was blown away with the quality off a $1500 (AUD) body compared to his $6,000 body and $3,000 lens. It just showed me that they are really up there in the market.

But on the flip side, I can see why some of the "pros" go "why are you using Pentax?"

When reading about the K-7 for instance, we know its the basically the 5D of the Pentax Brand. As one starts to dive deeper into the photography world, there are things, some being basic, that Pentax ignore. The main thing that I notice (and I really need it these days, as I'm now into studio work) is tethering.

I can't understand why Pentax have walked away from this feature on their main semi pro body. I really have trouble understanding as to why they won't enable or include this feature. Especially with tools out there like Adobe Lightroom which is one tool that a lot of photographers work closely with.

The other is speed. This is a big one for me also. Nikon's and Canon's have had great speed on their own DSLR bodies for years. One that springs to mind is the D2HS with 8fps for an 05/06 body. Pentax have only really started upping this in the K-7 and even then, its still a little below what the others offer.

So as I said, these are from my own experience. I can actually see both sides of people say "why?" and why the uses say "...well this is why..." Pentax has the ability to be an even better contender. Hopefully they'll take some notes and start really kicking down doors.

[WMBP]

As one starts to dive deeper into the photography world, there are things, some being basic, that Pentax ignore. The main thing that I notice (and I really need it these days, as I'm now into studio work) is tethering.

I can't understand why Pentax have walked away from this feature on their main semi pro body. I really have trouble understanding as to why they won't enable or include this feature. Especially with tools out there like Adobe Lightroom which is one tool that a lot of photographers work closely with.

Right. I was excited when I heard Lightroom 3 would include tethering—for about 2 minutes, until I realized it wasn't going to include tethering for Pentax cameras. That alone might have sold me a K-7. Ah, well, I guess they saved me some money.

The other is speed. This is a big one for me also. Nikon's and Canon's have had great speed on their own DSLR bodies for years. One that springs to mind is the D2HS with 8fps for an 05/06 body. Pentax have only really started upping this in the K-7 and even then, its still a little below what the others offer.

Speed doesn't matter a lot to me. I simply don't shoot a lot of bursts, so I don't care about frames per second at all. 3 fps is fine for me. And I really have not had significant problems with the autofocus speed of my K10D and K20D.

I assume that Pentax's decision, some years ago now, was to work on the easier technical challenges first, score points there (like, say, with weather-sealing), and save the harder challenges—the more expensive challenges—for later. Seems a reasonable approach.

Really, I think my K20D is very close to perfect. I have a hard time thinking of things I'd like to see improved. I STILL don't give a flip about video, and when I do feel like shooting a few seconds of video, I use my Panasonic compact cameras, which do a quite nice job. I skipped the K-7. What would make me buy the next Pentax camera? I'm not sure, but these features would tempt me:

1. Better high ISO, low-light performance
2. Support for writing to 2 SD cards simultaneously
3. GPS in-camera
4. Wi-fi?
5. Ability to change aspect ratios within the camera (as Panasonic cameras can do)
6. Support for tethering for the new camera in Lightroom 3.x

But I don't absolutely NEED any of those features. #1 is probably most important to me.

Will

[GeneV]

I skipped the K-7. What would make me buy the next Pentax camera? I'm not sure, but these features would tempt me:

1. Better high ISO, low-light performance
2. Support for writing to 2 SD cards simultaneously
3. GPS in-camera
4. Wi-fi?
5. Ability to change aspect ratios within the camera (as Panasonic cameras can do)
6. Support for tethering for the new camera in Lightroom 3.x

But I don't absolutely NEED any of those features. #1 is probably most important to me.

Will

That is an excellent list in order of importance, and, for me, the fall off in importance is not linear as you go down the list.

I would include low-light AF within item 1, as well. Just that one stop or so keeps me reaching for the K-x over the K20d.

For the second item, it seems to me that this could be accomplished in the battery grip, so that it did not necessarily add bulk to the camera. It has always seemed to me that the grip includes a lot of space into which some of the more esoteric features could be built, and which could allow modular purchase of these features.

[WMBP]

For the second item, it seems to me that this could be accomplished in the battery grip, so that it did not necessarily add bulk to the camera. It has always seemed to me that the grip includes a lot of space into which some of the more esoteric features could be built, and which could allow modular purchase of these features.

Oh, speaking of the battery grip, that reminds me of one of my other wishes—and this is a big one. I want to have the shooting controls on the grip work in portrait orientation, just as they do on the body of the camera in landscape orientation. Specifically, I want an AF button there on the grip, and in the same place, so that I can continue to use the AF button to focus (as I do now).

Will

[traderdrew]

A friend of mine (a Canonite) told me, "I wish you were using Canon." I shot back, "I ain't going to buy any commercial lenses." He stopped right there.

I know my friend isn't using commercial lenses because he has a $7,500.00 and a $12,000.00 lens. I let him know that I know Canon has basically two classes of lenses; their commercial line and their "L series" line and Pentax lenses are sharp across the board.

[jboyde]

Even non-pros talk trash about Pentax. A friend of mine has never owned a DSLR before and went out and bought a 7D. Shot for about a month and decided he wanted a 5D MKII (he's got the money to spare). I got my Kx after his switch and brought it over to his house one day. Since we are friends it was a very friendly conversation but he told me I should have bought a T2i instead but could not back that up with why I should have. I proceeded to talk trash about his knowledge of cameras and about him as a person in general. Nothing I said changed his mind but this just goes to show that it's not just the Pros, it's the Joes that talk too.

I've actually seen this more often. Most pros figure you'll use what got ya there so that speaks for itself. The average Joe just spent more money than what he thinks he should have on a camera that he was told will give pro shots automatically. In his mind he's going to want to justify this purchase every chance he gets.

Your friend wasnt concerned about the money part but he wanted to experience being part of the Canikon brotherhood.

[Urkeldaedalus]

Another thing to note is that anyone who is truly looking to talk trash to another photographer based on their equipment will probably find a way to do so no matter what equipment they're using.

Assuming it's a Canon user doing the trash talking:

If you were using Nikon, he'd rib you about Canon being better (the reason that feud has existed forever)

If you were using Sony full frame, he'd give you crap about not having video and high ISO performance.

If you're using Canon, unless you spent the same money as he did. He'd probably give a condescending glance, and try to impress you with his stuff.

If you were using a Leica M9 or similarly expensive camera, he'd get defensive, and say "Well, look how much better my stuff can do for so much less money."


The point being is there is not a magical brand you can buy into that will make you invisible to jerks. If there were, I might be interested in switching to it

[Goslett]

1. Better high ISO, low-light performance
2. Support for writing to 2 SD cards simultaneously
3. GPS in-camera
4. Wi-fi?
5. Ability to change aspect ratios within the camera (as Panasonic cameras can do)
6. Support for tethering for the new camera in Lightroom 3.x

Perfect list, couldn't have said it better myself. I began with a Panasonic that was given to me at a young age before I got my Pentax, and I loved the fact that I could change the aspect ratio. I also liked that when focusing, I could move the focus box around using the arrow keys, so I could select exactly what I wanted to be in and out of focus. I would absolutely LOVE the WI-FI for Pentax, I've looked into wireless transfer before, but it'd be nice to have it built in.

I think that alot of these arguments come down to the maturity level of the people involved. I'm 18, and I've seen both ends of the argument from my friends.

I have a friend (Canon User) who swears by Canon and refuses to hear anything other than stuff about Canon. I've even offered to let him shoot with my K20D and he won't touch the thing. He says that it doesn't matter what Pentax produces, Canon bodies and lenses (ha!) will always be better. Some people just don't listen, and its pointless to try and argue. Let them do their thing, its all about the final product anyways.

On the other hand, I have a very good friend who uses Nikon. He's a bit more level headed and off to one of the finest photography universities in the world in September. He swears by Nikon just because its what was introduced to him as a child (same with me for Pentax I suppose) but admits that our Limiteds have a lot of Nikons beat. So much infact, that after using my DA* 50-135, he went out and purchased one for himself (and adapted it onto his Nikon).

Yes, Canikon has us beat in some areas, but a good shot is a good shot, regardless of what its taken with.

[RioRico]

What would make me buy the next Pentax camera? I'm not sure, but these features would tempt me:

1. Better high ISO, low-light performance
2. Support for writing to 2 SD cards simultaneously
3. GPS in-camera
4. Wi-fi?
5. Ability to change aspect ratios within the camera (as Panasonic cameras can do)
6. Support for tethering for the new camera in Lightroom 3.x

But I don't absolutely NEED any of those features. #1 is probably most important to me.

After shooting a long time, I got my first dSLR ~2.5 years ago. Though I was inclined towards Sony or Oly or maybe Nikon, cold analysis led me to Pentax. I'm very very happy with my K20D... EXCEPT (and this is what might lead me towards a new camera, could I afford one) for ISO / low light. Two SD cards? It takes me at least a day to fill my 16gb stick. GPS, WiFi? Nice-to-have. Tethering? The K20D has it.

Aspect ratios... that would indeed be nice. I strongly considered a Canon P&S (G10 maybe?) that could change aspects. Ah, take me back to my TLR days with square frames... or even my old Sony P&S's, that can all switch from 3:4 to 2:3. Yeah, it would be good to have a cam with a 20mpx 2x3cm sensor, with variable aspects of 1:1 to 3:1 (presets or continuously adjustable). Maybe with enough intelligence so that if vignetting is detected, aspects are limited.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Back to trash-talk. As noted, PenHoya just doesn't have a presence in USA. Canikon's marketing certainly doesn't discourage user arrogance. PenHoya may be building a pro support network in Japan for the 645D, but certainly has no pro-level penetration elsewhere (and prosumer ain't the same). Maybe the Tokyo bean-counters have a longer-term strategy for boosting presence here, or maybe USA just isn't considered a viable target for their marketing funds.

But how about SOME brick-and-mortar shelf presence, PLEASE. A Kx and W90 on display in each of the 414 CostCo warehouses (as opposed to WalMart's 3550 stores and K-Mart's 1300 trash heaps) could have a HUGE impact. Pentax just isn't visible. It becomes the unseen Other, easy to denigrate as worthless, unreliable, petty -- a friendless loner, spat upon by the mainstream. Ptui.