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07-28-2014, 08:00 PM   #2986
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QuoteOriginally posted by woodywesty Quote
This is unbelievable.. Does anyone from Ricoh in Japan ever read this forum? Simply terrible marketing and product distribution....
Nope

07-28-2014, 09:14 PM   #2987
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pepe Le Pew Quote
Or in mega/super stores
This is New Zealand. We don't even have mega/super stores.
07-28-2014, 10:31 PM   #2988
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vitalii Quote
the beginning of the end...) for few month i wrote that we`ve got any/very few pentax lenses in our shops in innsbruck, austria sooo... ... ... today i was told that we are done with pentax, there will be final sale in few weeks, and then pentax will be sold only for order - which means nothing on stock, and ordering time from few days till few weeks - in short, no selling possibility at all. And we were one of the last who got pentax.) i hope the distributor in europe saved enought money for themselves with their shitty merchendising company because i won`t be able to sell pentax cameras any more.
This is really sad. It makes you think of your investment
07-28-2014, 11:21 PM - 1 Like   #2989
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I wouldn't think of camera gear as investment - unless you're going to earn some money with it, or sell it for profit; this is a nice example of wrong idea being successfully fed to the public by the credit organizations: the house is an investment, the car is an investment, the photo gear is an investment. it isn't, unless, as I said, you're going to sell it for profit, you use it to make money (which has to be more than the price of the thing) or if it helps you spend less than you would otherwise. the rest - it's an expense. if this is a hobby, we're just buying ourselves a tool to convert money units into joy. no one would say, that s/he is investing in a glass of wine. but this is an offtopic.

As for the original theme - it's sad, but how many of us have bought something in the store lately? for the past .. 9 years, the idea hasn't crossed my mind. but then again, that's just me.

07-29-2014, 12:14 AM   #2990
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The house is an investment - I get current service from it, but with appropriate maintenance it is an asset which can be sold at an inflation adjusted price in the future, and in a well chosen location, for more than that.


The car is a liability that I must have for its current utility. I may sell it before it fails but only at a price which indicates I have paid a significant amount for the service it provided me.


The camera is in between. Once I buy a camera and accessories, each will fail or be superseded separately. So I buy the camera and over a period of years collect lenses etc to go with it, and then when the camera needs replacing I need to get a camera that fits the glass. I am like many hobbyists here, precisely because photography is not my business I canno0t run the financial sums such that I can justify changing over the whole kit, so it does matter to me that there will continue to be cameras that I can mount my glass on that offer roughly the optical performance the glass was intended to provide - not some micro sensor with a short registration distance that would make everything telephoto. I have grown to like my wide angle glass now - eg 20mm, which on APS-C is wide but not stunningly wide. I suppose, growing up in the days of film SLRs I thought of my MX as the core box of a set of things I added to it over a period of several years until I had a sufficient set.


But my car is freestanding - so when I change the brand I had before does not have legacy impact on what I feel able to choose for my next one. My brand loyalty with cars is a result of nice experiences with two brands and one brand I had a bad experience with. Other electronic stuff like phones, apart from learning a new OS when changing brands, and intermittently with new versions on the same brand, does not have the same accessory cost factor to bind one to go back to the same supplier.
07-29-2014, 12:23 AM - 1 Like   #2991
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I just amazed that this thread is still going on since 6th Aug 2010, 11:06 PM.
07-29-2014, 12:38 AM   #2992
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kerrowdown Quote
I just amazed that this thread is still going on since 6th Aug 2010, 11:06 PM.
We're still rare! (I wonder if we're more or less rare than back in 2010)
07-29-2014, 12:46 AM   #2993
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I wonder if we're more or less rare than back in 2010
I don't how you can find out the answer to that one.

I prefer to think of us exclusive not rare.

07-29-2014, 01:05 AM   #2994
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QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
The house is an investment - I get current service from it, but with appropriate maintenance it is an asset which can be sold at an inflation adjusted price in the future, and in a well chosen location, for more than that.
true, but the trick thing is - unless one's going to live in a tent from then on, s/he'll need to buy a comparable or better house and still remain "in the black" (it can't be considered a good investment, if selling it lessens the quality of life). but yes, in essence, we're more or less talking about the same thing here.
if one buys a house with a clear intent to sell it for profit later, or rent it out so in a foreseeable future it will start to earn money, that is clearly an investment.


QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
The camera is in between. Once I buy a camera and accessories, each will fail or be superseded separately. So I buy the camera and over a period of years collect lenses etc to go with it, and then when the camera needs replacing I need to get a camera that fits the glass. I am like many hobbyists here, precisely because photography is not my business I canno0t run the financial sums such that I can justify changing over the whole kit, so it does matter to me that there will continue to be cameras that I can mount my glass on that offer roughly the optical performance the glass was intended to provide - not some micro sensor with a short registration distance that would make everything telephoto. I have grown to like my wide angle glass now - eg 20mm, which on APS-C is wide but not stunningly wide. I suppose, growing up in the days of film SLRs I thought of my MX as the core box of a set of things I added to it over a period of several years until I had a sufficient set.
at first, I started to write a statement proving that IMO something that doesn't earn money, can't be seen as investment .
but on the second thought, let's see what wiki says: "Investment is time, energy, or matter spent in the hope of future benefits actualized within a specified date or time frame."

it, then, depends on how we define the "benefits". if the benefits are "years of happily pursuing one's hobby" or "many beautiful memories recorded on a particular medium", then yes, it is an investment.
on the third(!) thought, choosing the proper system may help to avoid extra spending in the future, so even by my previous statement it can be seen as an investment, although, technically, it still would qualify as a "lesser liability".


QuoteOriginally posted by tim60 Quote
But my car is freestanding - so when I change the brand I had before does not have legacy impact on what I feel able to choose for my next one. My brand loyalty with cars is a result of nice experiences with two brands and one brand I had a bad experience with. Other electronic stuff like phones, apart from learning a new OS when changing brands, and intermittently with new versions on the same brand, does not have the same accessory cost factor to bind one to go back to the same supplier.
bit of nitpicking: a car usually is not a set of separate elements that can be used interchangeably - at least, not the major elements, like engine or suspension.
well, it can be, in a certain pair of hands, within boundaries and quite often - not without modding, but this is not a common use.

if we compare cars and cameras, I'd say we should compare cars with non-interchangeable-lens cameras.

karro, has invested in a glass of wine, admittedly

Last edited by karro; 07-29-2014 at 01:07 AM. Reason: some minor grammatical adjustments
07-29-2014, 04:45 AM   #2995
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Anyhow, HAPPY 200 PAGES, "Are we really THAT rare " thread!
07-29-2014, 08:24 AM   #2996
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Was at Best Buy a month ago near the camera section and a salesperson knew quite a bit about Pentax. Knew about the weather proof and a few other things. She impressed me. Too bad BB doesn't want to add Pentax to the floor space.
07-29-2014, 10:48 AM   #2997
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QuoteOriginally posted by karro Quote
I wouldn't think of camera gear as investment - unless you're going to earn some money with it, or sell it for profit; this is a nice example of wrong idea being successfully fed to the public by the credit organizations: the house is an investment, the car is an investment, the photo gear is an investment. it isn't, unless, as I said, you're going to sell it for profit, you use it to make money (which has to be more than the price of the thing) or if it helps you spend less than you would otherwise. the rest - it's an expense. if this is a hobby, we're just buying ourselves a tool to convert money units into joy. no one would say, that s/he is investing in a glass of wine. but this is an offtopic.

As for the original theme - it's sad, but how many of us have bought something in the store lately? for the past .. 9 years, the idea hasn't crossed my mind. but then again, that's just me.
you won`t belive but there are quite many customers who really want professional opinion and there are expected more and more in the future. take great britain - there are no camera shops there and the first thing they do, when they are on vocation - search for a professional camera shop and get third opinion. they are although willing to pay that 10 or 20% above internet price for being adviced. there are many more who just appreciate being a customer, get answers as simple as possible, get their problems solved if there are any, simply get a personal experience. and belive me, we advice not just simple noobs and beginners. and camera is an investment - your invesing in possibilities. you are paying for an opportunity of making pictures, building up your gear and more - it is up to you for which purpose you use it. Glass wine although often gives possibilities (good night investment) so invest propperly)

Last edited by Vitalii; 07-29-2014 at 10:55 AM.
07-29-2014, 12:17 PM   #2998
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QuoteOriginally posted by woodywesty Quote
This is unbelievable.. Does anyone from Ricoh in Japan ever read this forum? Simply terrible marketing and product distribution....
I would blame Vitalli's bosses. They are the ones that quit stocking Pentax.


Steve

---------- Post added 07-29-14 at 12:24 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by OrangeKx Quote
Was at Best Buy a month ago near the camera section and a salesperson knew quite a bit about Pentax. Knew about the weather proof and a few other things. She impressed me. Too bad BB doesn't want to add Pentax to the floor space.


Sony pretty much owns Best Buy. Nikon and Canon are tolerated only because they sell.


Steve
07-29-2014, 02:16 PM   #2999
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QuoteOriginally posted by karro Quote
bit of nitpicking: a car usually is not a set of separate elements that can be used interchangeably - at least, not the major elements, like engine or suspension.
well, it can be, in a certain pair of hands, within boundaries and quite often - not without modding, but this is not a common use.

if we compare cars and cameras, I'd say we should compare cars with non-interchangeable-lens cameras.

karro, has invested in a glass of wine, admittedly

I think you pretty much got my point. But on the car when I talked of it as independent I meant:
If my current car is brand X model Y, and even if I bought a few accessories for it (they would be worn out a bit and would go with the car)
My next car choice is independent of the previous one because I am not carrying over any accessories which need to be compatible.


Now think of the differences in marketing strategies that follow on from these characteristics. Maybe Pentax is little marketed because they are relying on the legacy locked in market, without realising some problems that are pretty obvious to most people from that.


I wonder if some of the big brands offer dealers good deals to not stock smaller players like Pentax. e.g. product discounts, or delayed payment terms (even consignment) or shop fitout conditional on ... - and the shops are not as brazen as I have heard of in China with drinks sellers stocking all brands including Pepsi in a Coke labelled fridge. For example, it is very rare to see a shop other than big supermarkets selling drinks from both the major competing brands - even not directly competing products.
07-29-2014, 06:50 PM   #3000
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Gratified to see two you East Asian woman with a Pentax DSLR on Bloor near Palmerston in Toronto (perhaps a K 30?).
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