Are we really THAT rare?

**Mikesul** · 11-10-2014, 05:54 AM

Although I see the value in a limited number of circumstances, I rarely use multi-point focusing. Unless I have a particular need single center point is so much more reliable. Some sports and, perhaps, flying birds against a plain sky do benefit from having many points active.

normhead · 11-10-2014, 06:00 AM

Being able to select a focus point away from the centre is an invaluable composition tool. Especially with wildlife but also with landscape, it allows you select part of an image that represents the hyperlocal point. Focusing and reframing, I way too often lift my finger off the button and have to start all over. I use selective focal points far more than I focus and recompose. The being said, I would prefer a smaller number of small focal points located at the intersections of the rule of thirds grid, the current situation with all the points bunched in the middle is a technical anomaly that hopefully will disappear when better technical solutions are forthcoming.

kadajawi · 11-10-2014, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by cxdoo

Yep, what exactly it focuses on is sometimes a lottery, but as I said I rarely don't have enough time to snap away-chimp-repeat until I get it. Worst case I go manual and bracket focus.

Not that I'd mind a better AF system (or anything), I just don't feel it's a compelling reason for me to upgrade.

Say I take a photo of a few people. Burst to make sure that there is one where no one blinks. Then before I can crimp I need to wait until the photos are saved. After 30 seconds, everyone is still waiting, I zoom in to the photo. Oh, look, it decided to focus on the background, even though a face was dead center when focusing! Apparently the area behind the face was also covered by the sensor.

cxdoo · 11-10-2014, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

Say I take a photo of a few people. Burst to make sure that there is one where no one blinks. Then before I can crimp I need to wait until the photos are saved. After 30 seconds, everyone is still waiting, I zoom in to the photo. Oh, look, it decided to focus on the background, even though a face was dead center when focusing! Apparently the area behind the face was also covered by the sensor.

I see why this would annoy you, it happened to me a couple of times too, but not lately. I usually look for biggest, most contrasty surface in the plane I want in focus, focus and recompose.
I have more problems with inappropriate shutter speed (too low) when in Av mode so I tend to use TAv when I expect motion blur to be a problem.

kadajawi · 11-10-2014, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by cxdoo

I see why this would annoy you, it happened to me a couple of times too, but not lately. I usually look for biggest, most contrasty surface in the plane I want in focus, focus and recompose.
I have more problems with inappropriate shutter speed (too low) when in Av mode so I tend to use TAv when I expect motion blur to be a problem.

It wouldn't just annoy me, it also annoys the people I take the photo of. They have to stand there for a minute while my camera is trying to focus on everything but the motive. Often times the most contrast is for example the glasses of someone, so I focus on that, but the camera picks the background instead. I can understand the purpose of a bit larger focusing points... you don't have to point so accurate. By having several, say, 20 small AF points in the center covering the area that is usually covered by the K-5 AF center point, and having each of them be able to light up individually, I could instantly see if the camera has picked the background instead, and focus again. I'd be very happy with that. Besides, by having several AF points it could pick the closest one it can lock on.

Another thing 200/400 AF points on a camera with live view enable is for the camera to focus on exactly the eyes of a motive. And to take a depth map of the whole photo... so it can focus and set aperture exactly so that from front to back everything is in focus. There are many possibilities, some of them surely not yet realized with these new cameras.

@normhead: Why don't you use the AF button to focus? That's what I usually do... focus once, and then shoot as long as the motive doesn't change the distance to the camera without focusing again (especially if I have verified that it is indeed in focus).

FantasticMrFox · 11-10-2014, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Mikesul

Although I see the value in a limited number of circumstances, I rarely use multi-point focusing. Unless I have a particular need single center point is so much more reliable. Some sports and, perhaps, flying birds against a plain sky do benefit from having many points active.

I thought the same for quite some time until I realised a very important application of selectable AF points - shooting at wide apertures. Especially with portraits shot at f/2 or wider, the DOF is so shallow that focussing with the centre point and recomposing will move the focus plain away from the intended target (e.g. the subject's eyes), no matter how careful you are.

eddie1960 · 11-10-2014, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by FantasticMrFox

I thought the same for quite some time until I realised a very important application of selectable AF points - shooting at wide apertures. Especially with portraits shot at f/2 or wider, the DOF is so shallow that focussing with the centre point and recomposing will move the focus plain away from the intended target (e.g. the subject's eyes), no matter how careful you are.

I use selectable all the time (and on the Fuji XE2 you can adjust the size of the focal zone as well)

**TER-OR** · 11-10-2014, 02:03 PM

At a model contest this past weekend I was talking to a lovely older couple (older than me anyway) and explaining the merits and drawbacks of one kit I entered. I noticed and commented on their Pentax, it was an X5. They use K30s as well, but the X5 does better at close subjects. They also take it places they'd be worried about camera theft, no one seems to notice it. Compact lenses on their K30s also don't get as much attention as the huge zooms from the competition. We had a nice little conversation - though I neglected to bring my camera...

FantasticMrFox · 11-10-2014, 02:24 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TER-OR

X

Just noticed that we live in the same city - in different countries

**TER-OR** · 11-10-2014, 04:11 PM

Ours was named by one of the founders of our town, after his hometown.

http://www.eastdundee.net/?page=history

rRnt · 11-10-2014, 04:16 PM

A couple of years ago I was photographing the new year fireworks at our capital city. I was minding my own business in the crowd when one guy behind me was addressing me: "Hey.... hey... are you taking photographs?". Well yeah, that was the general idea, but before I could answer, he added: "It's just that many folks use their cameras these days to take videos, including myself." Guy tried to convince me, that shooting video on a DSLR is THE thing now.

At one point though, he looked at my camera: "Oh, and you too shoot with Nikon?"
Me: "No, that's not a Nikon"
He: "What is it then? I saw the yellow band on the lens barrel..."
Me: "The lens is a Samyang 85mm prime, the camera is a Pentax"
And with a voice that reflected disgust, puzzling, interest and surprise - all at the same time: "WHY PENTAX?!"

I just laughed him off and resumed taking photos, you can't explain yourself to these kind of people.

MarkJerling · 11-10-2014, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by rRnt

A couple of years ago I was photographing the new year fireworks at our capital city. I was minding my own business in the crowd when one guy behind me was addressing me: "Hey.... hey... are you taking photographs?". Well yeah, that was the general idea, but before I could answer, he added: "It's just that many folks use their cameras these days to take videos, including myself." Guy tried to convince me, that shooting video on a DSLR is THE thing now.

At one point though, he looked at my camera: "Oh, and you too shoot with Nikon?"
Me: "No, that's not a Nikon"
He: "What is it then? I saw the yellow band on the lens barrel..."
Me: "The lens is a Samyang 85mm prime, the camera is a Pentax"
And with a voice that reflected disgust, puzzling, interest and surprise - all at the same time: "WHY PENTAX?!"

I just laughed him off and resumed taking photos, you can't explain yourself to these kind of people.

Oh, you can try. I have retorted with: "It's one of the best DSLRs - but it's a secret. - Don't tell anyone."

axelm7 · 11-10-2014, 05:25 PM

I found out not too long ago that a teacher I know has a Pentax ME super and 50mm f/2 and f/1.4 lenses. His girlfriend also keeps a near mint ME Super with a 50mm f/2. They both love the cameras and he's told me that at the time of purchase Pentax was perceived as the best brand for SLRs. I was surprised to know that the brand was sold alongside Canon and Nikon in Mexico until the mid 90's. He's a Nikon FF user now. Tragic story, I know.

MarkJerling · 11-10-2014, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by axelm7

I found out not too long ago that a teacher I know has a Pentax ME super and 50mm f/2 and f/1.4 lenses. His girlfriend also keeps a near mint ME Super with a 50mm f/2. They both love the cameras and he's told me that at the time of purchase Pentax was perceived as the best brand for SLRs. I was surprised to know that the brand was sold alongside Canon and Nikon in Mexico until the mid 90's. He's a Nikon FF user now. Tragic story, I know.

Pentax has a proud history. Sadly, under Hoya, the brand went downhill, although the products remained good.

axelm7 · 11-10-2014, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

Pentax has a proud history. Sadly, under Hoya, the brand went downhill, although the products remained good.

I think their biggest mistake was forgetting about marketing/ads altogether. It's non-existent, even in Japan where they have a more significant share of the market.

11-10-2014, 06:00 AM	#3242
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Being able to select a focus point away from the centre is an invaluable composition tool. Especially with wildlife but also with landscape, it allows you select part of an image that represents the hyperlocal point. Focusing and reframing, I way too often lift my finger off the button and have to start all over. I use selective focal points far more than I focus and recompose. The being said, I would prefer a smaller number of small focal points located at the intersections of the rule of thirds grid, the current situation with all the points bunched in the middle is a technical anomaly that hopefully will disappear when better technical solutions are forthcoming. Last edited by normhead; 11-10-2014 at 06:05 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
K 28mm/2 (rare ?, value ?)	mactansblue	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	30	06-08-2023 09:02 PM
Landscape Rare Precipitation	skid2964	Post Your Photos!	8	12-19-2009 08:50 PM
How rare is this lens?	raymeedc	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	11	11-20-2009 02:31 PM
The rare F50mm f/1.4	coqui	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	9	05-14-2008 06:09 AM
A rare find indeed... !!	Marc Langille	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	19	10-31-2007 01:10 PM

11-10-2014, 05:54 AM	#3241
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Although I see the value in a limited number of circumstances, I rarely use multi-point focusing. Unless I have a particular need single center point is so much more reliable. Some sports and, perhaps, flying birds against a plain sky do benefit from having many points active.

11-10-2014, 06:46 AM	#3243
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by cxdoo Yep, what exactly it focuses on is sometimes a lottery, but as I said I rarely don't have enough time to snap away-chimp-repeat until I get it. Worst case I go manual and bracket focus. Not that I'd mind a better AF system (or anything), I just don't feel it's a compelling reason for me to upgrade. Say I take a photo of a few people. Burst to make sure that there is one where no one blinks. Then before I can crimp I need to wait until the photos are saved. After 30 seconds, everyone is still waiting, I zoom in to the photo. Oh, look, it decided to focus on the background, even though a face was dead center when focusing! Apparently the area behind the face was also covered by the sensor.

11-10-2014, 06:55 AM	#3244
cxdoo Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 1,150	Originally posted by kadajawi Say I take a photo of a few people. Burst to make sure that there is one where no one blinks. Then before I can crimp I need to wait until the photos are saved. After 30 seconds, everyone is still waiting, I zoom in to the photo. Oh, look, it decided to focus on the background, even though a face was dead center when focusing! Apparently the area behind the face was also covered by the sensor. I see why this would annoy you, it happened to me a couple of times too, but not lately. I usually look for biggest, most contrasty surface in the plane I want in focus, focus and recompose. I have more problems with inappropriate shutter speed (too low) when in Av mode so I tend to use TAv when I expect motion blur to be a problem.

11-10-2014, 07:20 AM	#3245
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by cxdoo I see why this would annoy you, it happened to me a couple of times too, but not lately. I usually look for biggest, most contrasty surface in the plane I want in focus, focus and recompose. I have more problems with inappropriate shutter speed (too low) when in Av mode so I tend to use TAv when I expect motion blur to be a problem. It wouldn't just annoy me, it also annoys the people I take the photo of. They have to stand there for a minute while my camera is trying to focus on everything but the motive. Often times the most contrast is for example the glasses of someone, so I focus on that, but the camera picks the background instead. I can understand the purpose of a bit larger focusing points... you don't have to point so accurate. By having several, say, 20 small AF points in the center covering the area that is usually covered by the K-5 AF center point, and having each of them be able to light up individually, I could instantly see if the camera has picked the background instead, and focus again. I'd be very happy with that. Besides, by having several AF points it could pick the closest one it can lock on. Another thing 200/400 AF points on a camera with live view enable is for the camera to focus on exactly the eyes of a motive. And to take a depth map of the whole photo... so it can focus and set aperture exactly so that from front to back everything is in focus. There are many possibilities, some of them surely not yet realized with these new cameras. @normhead: Why don't you use the AF button to focus? That's what I usually do... focus once, and then shoot as long as the motive doesn't change the distance to the camera without focusing again (especially if I have verified that it is indeed in focus).

11-10-2014, 08:20 AM	#3246
FantasticMrFox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Munich Posts: 2,339	Originally posted by Mikesul Although I see the value in a limited number of circumstances, I rarely use multi-point focusing. Unless I have a particular need single center point is so much more reliable. Some sports and, perhaps, flying birds against a plain sky do benefit from having many points active. I thought the same for quite some time until I realised a very important application of selectable AF points - shooting at wide apertures. Especially with portraits shot at f/2 or wider, the DOF is so shallow that focussing with the centre point and recomposing will move the focus plain away from the intended target (e.g. the subject's eyes), no matter how careful you are.

11-10-2014, 10:38 AM	#3247
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by FantasticMrFox I thought the same for quite some time until I realised a very important application of selectable AF points - shooting at wide apertures. Especially with portraits shot at f/2 or wider, the DOF is so shallow that focussing with the centre point and recomposing will move the focus plain away from the intended target (e.g. the subject's eyes), no matter how careful you are. I use selectable all the time (and on the Fuji XE2 you can adjust the size of the focal zone as well)

11-10-2014, 02:03 PM	#3248
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	At a model contest this past weekend I was talking to a lovely older couple (older than me anyway) and explaining the merits and drawbacks of one kit I entered. I noticed and commented on their Pentax, it was an X5. They use K30s as well, but the X5 does better at close subjects. They also take it places they'd be worried about camera theft, no one seems to notice it. Compact lenses on their K30s also don't get as much attention as the huge zooms from the competition. We had a nice little conversation - though I neglected to bring my camera...

11-10-2014, 02:24 PM - 1 Like	#3249
FantasticMrFox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Munich Posts: 2,339	Originally posted by TER-OR X Just noticed that we live in the same city - in different countries

11-10-2014, 04:11 PM	#3250
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	Ours was named by one of the founders of our town, after his hometown. http://www.eastdundee.net/?page=history

11-10-2014, 04:16 PM	#3251
rRnt Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 88	A couple of years ago I was photographing the new year fireworks at our capital city. I was minding my own business in the crowd when one guy behind me was addressing me: "Hey.... hey... are you taking photographs?". Well yeah, that was the general idea, but before I could answer, he added: "It's just that many folks use their cameras these days to take videos, including myself." Guy tried to convince me, that shooting video on a DSLR is THE thing now. At one point though, he looked at my camera: "Oh, and you too shoot with Nikon?" Me: "No, that's not a Nikon" He: "What is it then? I saw the yellow band on the lens barrel..." Me: "The lens is a Samyang 85mm prime, the camera is a Pentax" And with a voice that reflected disgust, puzzling, interest and surprise - all at the same time: "WHY PENTAX?!" I just laughed him off and resumed taking photos, you can't explain yourself to these kind of people.

11-10-2014, 04:57 PM	#3252
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,423	Originally posted by rRnt A couple of years ago I was photographing the new year fireworks at our capital city. I was minding my own business in the crowd when one guy behind me was addressing me: "Hey.... hey... are you taking photographs?". Well yeah, that was the general idea, but before I could answer, he added: "It's just that many folks use their cameras these days to take videos, including myself." Guy tried to convince me, that shooting video on a DSLR is THE thing now. At one point though, he looked at my camera: "Oh, and you too shoot with Nikon?" Me: "No, that's not a Nikon" He: "What is it then? I saw the yellow band on the lens barrel..." Me: "The lens is a Samyang 85mm prime, the camera is a Pentax" And with a voice that reflected disgust, puzzling, interest and surprise - all at the same time: "WHY PENTAX?!" I just laughed him off and resumed taking photos, you can't explain yourself to these kind of people. Oh, you can try. I have retorted with: "It's one of the best DSLRs - but it's a secret. - Don't tell anyone."

11-10-2014, 05:25 PM	#3253
axelm7 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 95	I found out not too long ago that a teacher I know has a Pentax ME super and 50mm f/2 and f/1.4 lenses. His girlfriend also keeps a near mint ME Super with a 50mm f/2. They both love the cameras and he's told me that at the time of purchase Pentax was perceived as the best brand for SLRs. I was surprised to know that the brand was sold alongside Canon and Nikon in Mexico until the mid 90's. He's a Nikon FF user now. Tragic story, I know.

11-10-2014, 05:33 PM	#3254
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,423	Originally posted by axelm7 I found out not too long ago that a teacher I know has a Pentax ME super and 50mm f/2 and f/1.4 lenses. His girlfriend also keeps a near mint ME Super with a 50mm f/2. They both love the cameras and he's told me that at the time of purchase Pentax was perceived as the best brand for SLRs. I was surprised to know that the brand was sold alongside Canon and Nikon in Mexico until the mid 90's. He's a Nikon FF user now. Tragic story, I know. Pentax has a proud history. Sadly, under Hoya, the brand went downhill, although the products remained good.

11-10-2014, 05:38 PM	#3255
axelm7 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 95	Originally posted by MarkJerling Pentax has a proud history. Sadly, under Hoya, the brand went downhill, although the products remained good. I think their biggest mistake was forgetting about marketing/ads altogether. It's non-existent, even in Japan where they have a more significant share of the market.