Are we really THAT rare?

normhead · 12-05-2017, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Unfortunately if Pentax stays unknown it won't be able to survive. They won't be able to maintain excellent camera prices as the fixed cost in producing cameras will be expensive considering low sales volume. Fixed cost to be absorbed per camera will be quite high.

An interesting opinion, but still, one man's opinion. I tend to stay away from untestable theories.

They aren't completely unknown...

**aslyfox** · 12-05-2017, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Unfortunately if Pentax stays unknown it won't be able to survive. They won't be able to maintain excellent camera prices as the fixed cost in producing cameras will be expensive considering low sales volume. Fixed cost to be absorbed per camera will be quite high.

a " small " number of the people know the " secret " of Pentax

those " in the know "

Be in the know - Idioms by The Free Dictionary

can spread the word

**jpzk** · 12-05-2017, 02:31 PM

Just to give a totally unscientific observation regarding Pentax/Ricoh gear in my part of the world ... (200 Km east of Québec City)

In 11 years since I've returned to photography (away from it for several years) and took up wildlife preference, happily "shooting" with Pentax gear (and nothing else), I have YET to see ONE single photographer with the rare gear we all use here.

People regularly come from as far as 500-600 Km's away to visit our nature preserves and parks, some from way farther than that during the high season but, again, no Pentax in view ... loads of those white lenses though.

Edit : my daughter who comes to visit from Calgary does use Pentax gear (thanks to me ! ) so my "observation" is a bit biased.

**BarryE** · 12-05-2017, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by jeallen01

Just seen the Exhibitors list for the March 2018 "The Photography Show" (the biggest in the UK) at the National Exhibition Centre ("NEC") in Birmingham In England - NO sign (YET, if ever?) of Ricoh/Pentax

.

I'm in two minds about this. Last year I found the stand rather sad with the train set etc. Most footfall to the stand was, probably, from our lot and not newbies. Either be there and do it properly, Ricoh, or stay away - at least that's how I feel. (When I say 'properly' I'm not necessarily thinking big stand, but rather just niche and quality. After all that's what Pentax is now - niche and quality. No dad's old chuff chuffs, please.)

With my usual costs (petrol/parking) versus any savings from purchases mindset, with the lack of dealers likely to sell Pentax equipment and no need for any new gear, it's unlikely I can justify it. If Ricoh show up, I may change my mind as I could handle a few lenses ... Or maybe Pentax can do some wizzy, talks and demos, showing the gear but with no stand - think Pixel Shift, WR, SR, Astro, small primes, etc etc. (perhaps not video, though ;-) << that might work and would be cheaper ?????

normhead · 12-05-2017, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Just to give a totally unscientific observation regarding Pentax/Ricoh gear in my part of the world ... (200 Km east of Québec City)

In 11 years since I've returned to photography (away from it for several years) and took up wildlife preference, happily "shooting" with Pentax gear (and nothing else), I have YET to see ONE single photographer with the rare gear we all use here.

People regularly come from as far as 500-600 Km's away to visit our nature preserves and parks, some from way farther than that during the high season but, again, no Pentax in view ... loads of those white lenses though.

Edit : my daughter who comes to visit from Calgary does use Pentax gear (thanks to me ! ) so my "observation" is a bit biased.

In Algonquin Park I have seen 4. One was a presenter at the winter celebration and he was talking to a crowd of mainly Canon and Nikon shooter about the "free button" It was embarrassing. I met up with jacamaronce, took Knock out on canoe trip, meet guy who was attending the annual photographer's dinner (since cancelled) and met the guy with a brand new K-1. 150-450 and 15-30 That's 5 in 9 years, not too too bad.

**aslyfox** · 12-05-2017, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by normhead

In Algonquin Park I have seen 4. One was a presenter at the winter celebration and he was talking to a crowd of mainly Canon and Nikon shooter about the "free button" It was embarrassing. I met up with jacamaronce, took Knock out on canoe trip, meet guy who was attending the annual photographer's dinner (since cancelled) and met the guy with a brand new K-1. 150-450 and 15-30 That's 5 in 9 years, not too too bad.

OMG

I met two on my first and only trip to Yellowstone both young, one guy one gal on different days

and one at the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha - older gentleman

I'm ahead of scale apparently

totsmuyco · 12-05-2017, 04:48 PM

That's true Clackers however, the prices will go up as I'm feeling right now here in Asia. Nikon cameras are now sold cheaper than Pentax. I thought that it was only here in the Philippines. However, I do not buy here because of some issues. I buy from Japan and I also found that Nikon cameras are also cheaper than Pentax. I now don't see the price advantage which Pentax gave me before. I guess Pentax is also feeling the decline in sales volume and therefor have to increase their prices to be profitable.

**clackers** · 12-05-2017, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

That's true Clackers however, the prices will go up as I'm feeling right now here in Asia. Nikon cameras are now sold cheaper than Pentax. I thought that it was only here in the Philippines. However, I do not buy here because of some issues. I buy from Japan and I also found that Nikon cameras are also cheaper than Pentax. I now don't see the price advantage which Pentax gave me before. I guess Pentax is also feeling the decline in sales volume and therefor have to increase their prices to be profitable.

Correct.

Nikon are facing a disastrous financial situation because they chased the low end so hard. Big job layoffs.

You look at the D5 and D500, they're *not* cheap.

normhead · 12-05-2017, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by normhead

In Algonquin Park I have seen 4. One was a presenter at the winter celebration and he was talking to a crowd of mainly Canon and Nikon shooter about the "green button" It was embarrassing. I met up with jacamar once, took Knock out on canoe trip, met guy who was attending the annual photographer's dinner (since cancelled) and met the guy with a brand new K-1. 150-450 and 15-30 That's 5 in 9 years, not too too bad.

I have to amend this. When I moved here there was a retired building supervisor and friend of my ex-bother-in-law, who knew him from the Waterloo Photography Club. And his name was also Norman. He'd been up here photographing the park with a K-10D and his wife with a D*ist. He received some kind of arts grant to put on an exhibition at the visitor's centre that made him enough money to pay for all his gear. He told me he had 100,00 images of the park and thousands of unsold prints left over from his show. As he got older and his health deteriorated he moved back down south. We had an open invitation to dinner, but we never made it. So those two raise my total to 7 in nine years.

Since the other Norman lived here for 5 years, there has been a Norman photographing the park while living in Whitney for 14 years. Just not the same Norman. For a year there was two of us.

Norman's rule!

totsmuyco · 12-05-2017, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Correct.

Nikon are facing a disastrous financial situation because they chased the low end so hard. Big job layoffs.

You look at the D5 and D500, they're *not* cheap.

If I'm not looking at the K-1, I can't look at either of them unless I want to carry tons of bricks in my bag.

**clackers** · 12-05-2017, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

If I'm not looking at the K-1, I can't look at either of them unless I want to carry tons of bricks in my bag.

Sure, Totsmuyco, but we're talking about strategies for corporations in a declining market, and that can be very different from what an individual consumer wants.

You may not buy a $6000 1DX Mark II but Canon hope that some do.

jeryst · 12-05-2017, 10:23 PM

Ricoh seems content to cater to a small base (us), and doesnt seem to
want to go any further than that. Have any of you ever seen a Pentax commercial?
I dont think I have.

tim60 · 12-05-2017, 10:59 PM

I wonder what the critical mass in the user base would be so that enough people would know someone with a Pentax to have an informed view of it? 3%, 5%, 10% of the total camera market? Once you get to that point, a product which speaks for itself can move ahead.

Also, with ore out there, the greater the chance of peole clubbing together to buy rarely used accessories and sharing them, on a mutual benefit basis.

**aslyfox** · 12-06-2017, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by jeryst

Ricoh seems content to cater to a small base (us), and doesnt seem to
want to go any further than that. Have any of you ever seen a Pentax commercial?
I dont think I have.

only a historical one from years past

I don't read photography magazines, are there any ads in those?

Jonathan Mac · 12-06-2017, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Unfortunately if Pentax stays unknown it won't be able to survive. They won't be able to maintain excellent camera prices as the fixed cost in producing cameras will be expensive considering low sales volume. Fixed cost to be absorbed per camera will be quite high.

They've managed in exactly that situation since the dawn of digital SLR photography, over ten years ago.

I hope they don't get too big as if they do they might adopt Canon's model of charging far too much for poorly-built cameras with crap sensors just because people know the brand

12-05-2017, 02:18 PM	#4967
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	Originally posted by totsmuyco Unfortunately if Pentax stays unknown it won't be able to survive. They won't be able to maintain excellent camera prices as the fixed cost in producing cameras will be expensive considering low sales volume. Fixed cost to be absorbed per camera will be quite high. a " small " number of the people know the " secret " of Pentax those " in the know " Be in the know - Idioms by The Free Dictionary can spread the word Last edited by aslyfox; 12-05-2017 at 02:36 PM.

12-05-2017, 03:22 PM	#4971
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	Originally posted by normhead In Algonquin Park I have seen 4. One was a presenter at the winter celebration and he was talking to a crowd of mainly Canon and Nikon shooter about the "free button" It was embarrassing. I met up with jacamaronce, took Knock out on canoe trip, meet guy who was attending the annual photographer's dinner (since cancelled) and met the guy with a brand new K-1. 150-450 and 15-30 That's 5 in 9 years, not too too bad. OMG I met two on my first and only trip to Yellowstone both young, one guy one gal on different days and one at the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha - older gentleman I'm ahead of scale apparently Last edited by aslyfox; 12-06-2017 at 05:08 AM.

12-05-2017, 07:13 PM	#4974
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by normhead In Algonquin Park I have seen 4. One was a presenter at the winter celebration and he was talking to a crowd of mainly Canon and Nikon shooter about the "green button" It was embarrassing. I met up with jacamar once, took Knock out on canoe trip, met guy who was attending the annual photographer's dinner (since cancelled) and met the guy with a brand new K-1. 150-450 and 15-30 That's 5 in 9 years, not too too bad. I have to amend this. When I moved here there was a retired building supervisor and friend of my ex-bother-in-law, who knew him from the Waterloo Photography Club. And his name was also Norman. He'd been up here photographing the park with a K-10D and his wife with a Dist. He received some kind of arts grant to put on an exhibition at the visitor's centre that made him enough money to pay for all his gear. He told me he had 100,00 images of the park and thousands of unsold prints left over from his show. As he got older and his health deteriorated he moved back down south. We had an open invitation to dinner, but we never made it. So those two raise my total to 7 in nine years. Since the other Norman lived here for 5 years, there has been a Norman photographing the park while living in Whitney for 14 years. Just not the same Norman. For a year there was two of us. Norman's rule! Last edited by normhead; 12-05-2017 at 07:21 PM.*

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12-05-2017, 01:46 PM	#4966
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by totsmuyco Unfortunately if Pentax stays unknown it won't be able to survive. They won't be able to maintain excellent camera prices as the fixed cost in producing cameras will be expensive considering low sales volume. Fixed cost to be absorbed per camera will be quite high. An interesting opinion, but still, one man's opinion. I tend to stay away from untestable theories. They aren't completely unknown...

12-05-2017, 02:31 PM	#4968
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Just to give a totally unscientific observation regarding Pentax/Ricoh gear in my part of the world ... (200 Km east of Québec City) In 11 years since I've returned to photography (away from it for several years) and took up wildlife preference, happily "shooting" with Pentax gear (and nothing else), I have YET to see ONE single photographer with the rare gear we all use here. People regularly come from as far as 500-600 Km's away to visit our nature preserves and parks, some from way farther than that during the high season but, again, no Pentax in view ... loads of those white lenses though. Edit : my daughter who comes to visit from Calgary does use Pentax gear (thanks to me ! ) so my "observation" is a bit biased.

12-05-2017, 02:43 PM	#4969
BarryE Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,653	Originally posted by jeallen01 Just seen the Exhibitors list for the March 2018 "The Photography Show" (the biggest in the UK) at the National Exhibition Centre ("NEC") in Birmingham In England - NO sign (YET, if ever?) of Ricoh/Pentax . I'm in two minds about this. Last year I found the stand rather sad with the train set etc. Most footfall to the stand was, probably, from our lot and not newbies. Either be there and do it properly, Ricoh, or stay away - at least that's how I feel. (When I say 'properly' I'm not necessarily thinking big stand, but rather just niche and quality. After all that's what Pentax is now - niche and quality. No dad's old chuff chuffs, please.) With my usual costs (petrol/parking) versus any savings from purchases mindset, with the lack of dealers likely to sell Pentax equipment and no need for any new gear, it's unlikely I can justify it. If Ricoh show up, I may change my mind as I could handle a few lenses ... Or maybe Pentax can do some wizzy, talks and demos, showing the gear but with no stand - think Pixel Shift, WR, SR, Astro, small primes, etc etc. (perhaps not video, though ;-) << that might work and would be cheaper ?????

12-05-2017, 03:10 PM	#4970
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by jpzk Just to give a totally unscientific observation regarding Pentax/Ricoh gear in my part of the world ... (200 Km east of Québec City) In 11 years since I've returned to photography (away from it for several years) and took up wildlife preference, happily "shooting" with Pentax gear (and nothing else), I have YET to see ONE single photographer with the rare gear we all use here. People regularly come from as far as 500-600 Km's away to visit our nature preserves and parks, some from way farther than that during the high season but, again, no Pentax in view ... loads of those white lenses though. Edit : my daughter who comes to visit from Calgary does use Pentax gear (thanks to me ! ) so my "observation" is a bit biased. In Algonquin Park I have seen 4. One was a presenter at the winter celebration and he was talking to a crowd of mainly Canon and Nikon shooter about the "free button" It was embarrassing. I met up with jacamaronce, took Knock out on canoe trip, meet guy who was attending the annual photographer's dinner (since cancelled) and met the guy with a brand new K-1. 150-450 and 15-30 That's 5 in 9 years, not too too bad.

12-05-2017, 04:48 PM	#4972
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	That's true Clackers however, the prices will go up as I'm feeling right now here in Asia. Nikon cameras are now sold cheaper than Pentax. I thought that it was only here in the Philippines. However, I do not buy here because of some issues. I buy from Japan and I also found that Nikon cameras are also cheaper than Pentax. I now don't see the price advantage which Pentax gave me before. I guess Pentax is also feeling the decline in sales volume and therefor have to increase their prices to be profitable.

12-05-2017, 06:36 PM	#4973
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by totsmuyco That's true Clackers however, the prices will go up as I'm feeling right now here in Asia. Nikon cameras are now sold cheaper than Pentax. I thought that it was only here in the Philippines. However, I do not buy here because of some issues. I buy from Japan and I also found that Nikon cameras are also cheaper than Pentax. I now don't see the price advantage which Pentax gave me before. I guess Pentax is also feeling the decline in sales volume and therefor have to increase their prices to be profitable. Correct. Nikon are facing a disastrous financial situation because they chased the low end so hard. Big job layoffs. You look at the D5 and D500, they're not cheap.

12-05-2017, 07:15 PM	#4975
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Originally posted by clackers Correct. Nikon are facing a disastrous financial situation because they chased the low end so hard. Big job layoffs. You look at the D5 and D500, they're not cheap. If I'm not looking at the K-1, I can't look at either of them unless I want to carry tons of bricks in my bag.

12-05-2017, 08:50 PM	#4976
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by totsmuyco If I'm not looking at the K-1, I can't look at either of them unless I want to carry tons of bricks in my bag. Sure, Totsmuyco, but we're talking about strategies for corporations in a declining market, and that can be very different from what an individual consumer wants. You may not buy a $6000 1DX Mark II but Canon hope that some do.

12-05-2017, 10:23 PM	#4977
jeryst Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western PA Posts: 136	Ricoh seems content to cater to a small base (us), and doesnt seem to want to go any further than that. Have any of you ever seen a Pentax commercial? I dont think I have.

12-05-2017, 10:59 PM	#4978
tim60 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 8,738	I wonder what the critical mass in the user base would be so that enough people would know someone with a Pentax to have an informed view of it? 3%, 5%, 10% of the total camera market? Once you get to that point, a product which speaks for itself can move ahead. Also, with ore out there, the greater the chance of peole clubbing together to buy rarely used accessories and sharing them, on a mutual benefit basis.

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12-06-2017, 04:19 AM	#4979
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	Originally posted by jeryst Ricoh seems content to cater to a small base (us), and doesnt seem to want to go any further than that. Have any of you ever seen a Pentax commercial? I dont think I have. only a historical one from years past I don't read photography magazines, are there any ads in those?

12-06-2017, 04:26 AM	#4980
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,887	Originally posted by totsmuyco Unfortunately if Pentax stays unknown it won't be able to survive. They won't be able to maintain excellent camera prices as the fixed cost in producing cameras will be expensive considering low sales volume. Fixed cost to be absorbed per camera will be quite high. They've managed in exactly that situation since the dawn of digital SLR photography, over ten years ago. I hope they don't get too big as if they do they might adopt Canon's model of charging far too much for poorly-built cameras with crap sensors just because people know the brand