[formercanuck]

I don't think that's it. Pentax cameras probably have low demand compared to Canikon, so production capacity/output is probably not the issue. Good marketing is the issue. People just think that Canikon and Sony are the only choices when it comes to digital imaging products. Most people are completely unaware that Pentax even exists, let alone that they offer better choices for beginners and prosumers at competitive prices.

I think its part marketing, and part being able to 'cheaply' push volume that's required to be profitable in USA. You CAN find Ricoh WG line at probably ALL Target stores and even Fry's. You will not find very few D-SLR / mirrorless Pentax gear outside of a few stores in major markets.

Pentax has to compete against
1. Canon
2. Nikon
3. Samsung (new / large / well funded player)
4. Sony (large / well funded player - heck they make sensors used by Pentax!)

To sell in the US, Pentax has to be able to effectively sell in box stores such as Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco as well as most mom-pop (dying breed) camera stores.
Pentax is in a pickle (at least in US) - its the old method of 'go big or go home'. Pentax has to effectively pay to play against the big boys (Canon/Nikon), and more importantly watch out for the new comers, which have a LARGE electronics infrastructure. Sony has its own media empire. Samsung is just a HUGE (and growing) electronics / manufacturer, and probably doesn't need to use FoxConn.

[eddie1960]

I think its part marketing, and part being able to 'cheaply' push volume that's required to be profitable in USA. You CAN find Ricoh WG line at probably ALL Target stores and even Fry's. You will not find very few D-SLR / mirrorless Pentax gear outside of a few stores in major markets.

Pentax has to compete against
1. Canon
2. Nikon
3. Samsung (new / large / well funded player)
4. Sony (large / well funded player - heck they make sensors used by Pentax!)

To sell in the US, Pentax has to be able to effectively sell in box stores such as Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco as well as most mom-pop (dying breed) camera stores.
Pentax is in a pickle (at least in US) - its the old method of 'go big or go home'. Pentax has to effectively pay to play against the big boys (Canon/Nikon), and more importantly watch out for the new comers, which have a LARGE electronics infrastructure. Sony has its own media empire. Samsung is just a HUGE (and growing) electronics / manufacturer, and probably doesn't need to use FoxConn.

Ricoh as a corporation is also a very large player, where they go with Pentax depends on their goals and how much they are willing to allocate to the goal of growing the brand. Profitability is not reliant on the go big or go home sell crap entry level models stacked up like toasters at costo and walmart idea. In fact selling the pile em high and watch em fly models costs money. the cost of manufacturing the 349 rebel vs the 749 rebel isn't a lot different. piling them high and watching them fly takes the upsell to a better featured model out of the equation. not really good for either the retailer or the brand. Ricoh has supposedly got the brand profitable now its a grow it without destroying that. If it means not being as big ib the Us as say France or Japan then so be it. keeping it large enough to show continued growth while remaining profitable is the way to go. All the players are struggling to achieve that. the way the industry ios heading in fact would call for the big guys to contract a little and refocus to remain profitable. Being small with the ability to react more easily to change has benefits
Samsung is a good size but they aren't really a big camera player, it's a sideline, communications and panels is their game and will remain so, there is no win in trying to take the #1 slot in a declining market
Sony is doing well in the sensor market and they are doing a decent job with bodies but have to work on lenses to really compete. they are being dragged down by other money losing divisions like entertainment
there is also Fuji Pana and Oly not mentioned. Pana and Oly struggle for profit but the Oly turnaround has been pretty impressive, Panasonic seems to be struggling somewhat overall. The X system pretty much saved the Imaging division at Fuji and restored it to profit.
My point is Niche targeting and marketing (essentially what Pentax Oly and Fuji have been doing in their own way) is not a bad thing overall, smaller share with profit is better than large share at a loss

[Venom3300]

I think its part marketing, and part being able to 'cheaply' push volume that's required to be profitable in USA. You CAN find Ricoh WG line at probably ALL Target stores and even Fry's. You will not find very few D-SLR / mirrorless Pentax gear outside of a few stores in major markets.

Pentax has to compete against
1. Canon
2. Nikon
3. Samsung (new / large / well funded player)
4. Sony (large / well funded player - heck they make sensors used by Pentax!)

To sell in the US, Pentax has to be able to effectively sell in box stores such as Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco as well as most mom-pop (dying breed) camera stores.
Pentax is in a pickle (at least in US) - its the old method of 'go big or go home'. Pentax has to effectively pay to play against the big boys (Canon/Nikon), and more importantly watch out for the new comers, which have a LARGE electronics infrastructure. Sony has its own media empire. Samsung is just a HUGE (and growing) electronics / manufacturer, and probably doesn't need to use FoxConn.

Our taget carries no Ricoh/Pentax products of any kind.

[kadajawi]

AFAIK Panasonic can't make the GH4 fast enough. It's a big hit. They had to double production. Olympus seemed to be not doing so well, though the E-M1 is doing quite ok. But still there must be a reason why Olympus is investing in video now, even though not long ago they said video isn't their forte, it isn't their focus.


IMHO one of the main Pentax advantages requires them to be in stores. It's haptics and usability. They easily beat Canon, they beat Nikon and are even a bit better than Sony, IMHO. But people need to touch the cameras in store to experience that.

[eddie1960]

AFAIK Panasonic can't make the GH4 fast enough. It's a big hit. They had to double production. Olympus seemed to be not doing so well, though the E-M1 is doing quite ok. But still there must be a reason why Olympus is investing in video now, even though not long ago they said video isn't their forte, it isn't their focus.


IMHO one of the main Pentax advantages requires them to be in stores. It's haptics and usability. They easily beat Canon, they beat Nikon and are even a bit better than Sony, IMHO. But people need to touch the cameras in store to experience that.

it's still about profit, yeah it may seem like they are selling a lot but you don't know how they allocated the manufacturing process before release (these things are blocked well out and based in part on advance orders from top dealers - Panasonic is notorious for asking for your forecast then crunpling it up and throwing it away and going with a very conservative low number. happened to me for years in retail we'd say this will grow at 20 or even 30% over the prior model based on advance previews and they'd allocated an 8-10% growth and we'd be out of stock for the first 6 months while they adapted to the demand) . Panasonic has also struggled as an entity with profit lately so it's moot if a high end g4 that they manufactured in more limited quantities is experiencing demand above the planned supply.

I agree being in stores is how you win....but you need to assess the cost of being on the floor versus the returns. getting a premium spot at walmart/costco/bestbuy etc is a very costly thing (you pay for the position. you can't choose the store or market (so say you want to focus on a key market or 2, you may have to pay and supply and train in 3 shitty markets to get space in 2 stores in a premium market on top of end cap costs, advertising costs, staff and store training and incentives......Sony used to be able to command much space by letting you sell trinitron they got space for their other less stellar items. then TV became a commodity and Sony stopped making their own components - they no longer have the power they had now they pay like eveyomne else. the power is actually with the people who own the space now and they dictate how little or much space or margin you have. You cant just drop in and buy the space for a premium time like christmas either you need to commit to it for the shit times as well. there is no easy answer, but it's not likely the big boxes (best buy will be gone withing a few years anyway they are already sinking glad I sold my employee shares a few years ago when any vesting had ended)

[stevebrot]

Mh... yes, but higher end Nikons have great compatibility with old Nikon lenses, AFAIK. Exceeding what Pentax does.

I believe that Nikon support for vintage glass better at the enthusiast level and above in the current line. Such was not the case even a few years ago.

Here is a link to the D7000 lens compatibility matrix page. Nikon does not publish to this level of detail for more recent models.

https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17048/kw/D7000/

Note that metering support for non-chipped vintage glass is M mode only and requires manually entering both maximum aperture and focal length for best results.


Steve

[kadajawi]

I believe that Nikon support for vintage glass better at the enthusiast level and above in the current line. Such was not the case even a few years ago.

Here is a link to the D7000 lens compatibility matrix page. Nikon does not publish to this level of detail for more recent models.

https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17048/kw/D7000/

Note that metering support for non-chipped vintage glass is M mode only and requires manually entering both maximum aperture and focal length for best results.


Steve

As long as you can enter the values and store them as presets you can easily chose from (which, btw., would be a nice addition to Pentax cameras too, even if you only save the focal length it's easier to chose between preset 1 and 2 instead of going from 80 to 200 for example) that is quite decent.


Thank you eddie, that was very interesting.

[jawsy]

I've never been (and still aren't) into the whole brand loyalty thing. It's more a case of when you're onto a good thing, stick with it. It does make we wonder though how Pentax still manages to sell cameras with it's highly disciplined 'no marketing' strategy. I don't think I've run across a Pentax user outside family in ten years, yet I've had comments such as: -

'I've heard about that camera, isn't that the one that's dust and water proof (K20D)?'

or after handling the K20D a Canon (40D) user commented,

'This is much easier to use than mine ... pity, too late now.'

and from a Nikon user still using a D3000 as a point and shoot,

'I still can't work mine out, yours is easy.'

... and finally

'I'm taking the plunge and getting a VR lens, do Pentax do VR lenses?' ... 'No, it's already built into the body.' ... 'Oh...pity, too late now.'

I think it's probably a good thing for a person like me. The bigger they get, the more mass marketed rubbish gets churned out. With Pentax it doesn't matter what camera you get, you seem to get a good long lasting quality product. That's not the case with some of the bigger competitors at the low to mid price points.

[stevebrot]

As long as you can enter the values and store them as presets you can easily chose from (which, btw., would be a nice addition to Pentax cameras too, even if you only save the focal length it's easier to chose between preset 1 and 2 instead of going from 80 to 200 for example) that is quite decent.

I am not sure how the preset mechanism works with those cameras, but am not sure I would have the patience to enter the settings and/or page through the presets whenever I change lenses. I shoot mostly vintage glass (more than a dozen lenses), a practice that would likely continue should I ever switch to Nikon. On the K-3 changing the focal length for SR is a simple matter and different than on your K-5. A pre-set would be overkill.


Steve

[kadajawi]

I am not sure how the preset mechanism works with those cameras, but am not sure I would have the patience to enter the settings and/or page through the presets whenever I change lenses. I shoot mostly vintage glass (more than a dozen lenses), a practice that would likely continue should I ever switch to Nikon. On the K-3 changing the focal length for SR is a simple matter and different than on your K-5. A pre-set would be overkill.


Steve

I haven't tried a K-3 with a vintage lens... how does it work?


My K-5 usually asks me when I put on an old lens, so as long as _that_ works and it lets me chose between presets (that I can give a name to) that would be good enough for me. But yeah, no idea how Nikon does it.

[Mikesul]

The K3 works with old glass very much as the K5 does, green button metering, etc. It has the added advantage of focus peaking in LiveView which, in some circumstances, makes focusing much easier.

[kadajawi]

The K3 works with old glass very much as the K5 does, green button metering, etc. It has the added advantage of focus peaking in LiveView which, in some circumstances, makes focusing much easier.

I asked because steve said changing focal length is very easy on a K-3, not as complicated as a K-5. Most of the time, at least when in between I use a modern lens, it is easy too. But a preset system would simplify it even further, because instead of having to go through a couple of steps and hit the right one I would only have to pick between two.

[Mikesul]

I asked because steve said changing focal length is very easy on a K-3, not as complicated as a K-5. Most of the time, at least when in between I use a modern lens, it is easy too. But a preset system would simplify it even further, because instead of having to go through a couple of steps and hit the right one I would only have to pick between two.

Maybe I am missing something. I do not think I do anything differently with manual lenses on the two cameras. Set the aperture ring and shoot most of the time. Green button occasionally necessary. A or Manual mode.

[Ex Finn.]

Soo... What is the last time anyone of you have seen a Pentax user/camera in the wild?.
Is it a time to change the name of this thread to "general use" or "how to use your camera" or maybe "my lens is acting up and the Pentax marketing needs help".
You all need to visit the page one and re-read, IMHO

[eddie1960]

Lots of Pentax shooters in Toronto so i see them regularly