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08-11-2020, 05:04 PM - 1 Like   #6301
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fluegel Quote
My hope she is not affected yet by the trend to go for large MP cameras.
Surely there will be an end to the megapixel wars sometime soonish.

I pulled my 'measly 16mp' K-5ii out after having no use for a while, to prepare it for eBay. Of course, 16mp isn't really that measly - can do some decently sized prints with 16mp.

Not a bite on it yet...and I see a couple of KP's up (which I think are fantastic cameras, if a little quirky in appearance and feel), and they are just not getting bids either. Maybe we are quite rare after all (or maybe people aren't buying cameras)!

Doesn't matter. I ended up reconsidering my K-5 ii listing, which I had listed very cheaply. I added a kit zoom and upped the price. It's too nice of a camera to let go for a couple of hundred dollars - talk about bang for buck!

08-12-2020, 02:22 AM   #6302
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QuoteOriginally posted by DamienW Quote
Surely there will be an end to the megapixel wars sometime soonish.
I'm sure there will be. It will be just like people got bored with increasing PC speeds after their PCs did everything they needed; instead they went off on a different tack, first to laptops then tablets and then smartphones, where the race was to be physically thinner, even at the cost of everything else.

FWIW I believe that MILCs will also start a "thinness" race. In 10 or 15 years time people will be laughing at today's Nikon Zs and Sony A7s, like we now laugh at old brick-like mobile phones. There is no reason in principle why a MILC body cannot be reduced to 3mm thickness, even if the lenses remain as big as tin cans. Of course with a smaller flange distance new lens mounts will be needed along the way, to the delight of the marketing people because everyone will need to buy yet another set of glassware. Or sets of glassware as the reduction to 3mm probably won't be done in one jump.

If you read the comments/requests in Tony Northrups recent future predictions video, the MILCs will also be phones, navigators, Facebook terminals, solar panels, smart face masks, hair clippers, and perpetual motion machines too. In other words they will be smartphones with big sensors and interchangeable lenses, leaving rangefinders, DSLRs and medium format cameras as minority interests.

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 08-12-2020 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Clarity
08-12-2020, 02:50 AM   #6303
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
FWIW I believe that MILCs will also start a "thinness" race. In 10 or 15 years time people will be laughing at today's Nikon Zs and Sony A7s, like we now laugh at old brick-like mobile phones.
I think we're already past that. Recent models went back to the better ergonomics of space for buttons and a bigger grip that also creates a space for much needed battery capacity
08-12-2020, 02:54 AM   #6304
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I'm sure there will be. It will be just like people got bored with increasing PC speeds after their PCs did everything they needed; instead they went off on a different tack, first to laptops then tablets and then smartphones, where the race was to be physically thinner, even at the cost of everything else.

FWIW I believe that MILCs will also start a "thinness" race. In 10 or 15 years time people will be laughing at today's Nikon Zs and Sony A7s, like we now laugh at old brick-like mobile phones. There is no reason in principle why a MILC body cannot be reduced to 3mm thickness, even if the lenses remain as big as tin cans. Of course with a smaller flange distance new lens mounts will be needed along the way, to the delight of the marketing people because everyone will need to buy yet another set of glassware. Or sets of glassware as the reduction to 3mm probably won't be done in one jump.

If you read the comments/requests in Tony Northrups recent future predictions video, the MILCs will also be phones, navigators, Facebook terminals, solar panels, smart face masks, hair clippers, and perpetual motion machines too. In other words they will be smartphones with big sensors and interchangeable lenses, leaving rangefinders, DSLRs and medium format cameras as minority interests.
Interesting points. I'm not sure about cameras with reasonably large sensors being as thin as 3 mm, though. The heat produced by the sensor and the processing unit will be an obstacle. Witness the Canon R5, which is a fairly beefy camera, yet overheats when used for 8K video or high rate 4K. I quite fancy the hair clipping function, though.

08-12-2020, 05:50 AM   #6305
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QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
I think we're already past that. Recent models went back to the better ergonomics of space for buttons and a bigger grip that also creates a space for much needed battery capacity
It was refreshing to see Panasonic come out with the hunk of camera that is the S1 (which is heavier than the K-1!) - it actually looks comfortable to handle, unlike a certain other brand

I mean, the only place where you should shave space in a mirrorless is the space between the sensor and the mount, which is the only "dead" area control-wise (yes, AF mode switch on the side of the mount, but that's the easiest to sidestep IMO and it's a hassle to access anyway).
08-13-2020, 02:07 PM - 1 Like   #6306
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Without disclosing my age I would like to put the matter of Mega pixels into perspective.
Not even 40 years ago which is more than a lifetime in digital area I started out with what we now would consider a measly 4 Mp.
That 4 Mp digital back did not come cheaply, I paid 32.000 USD for that digital back.It was a digiback not even a camera.
It tuned out to be one of the best investments I ever made. ROI within a year because all ad agencies wanted to go digital.

Dynamic range exceeded the range of film which compensated for the low Mp count.
MF film will give a maximum of about 80 Mp.Is that enough? Not always.
Digital can beat that at a price though. Digital can even increase the best scans from film by increasing the 80 Mp through calculating extra Mp.

Nowadays for simple table top jobs I use a K10d. 10 Mp are more than enough.
IQ from the K10d is excellent. Sold the K5ii body I had for 300 USD. Did not regret the sale for one second. Great camera but not what I needed.
08-14-2020, 03:56 AM - 2 Likes   #6307
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I was under the impression that the megapixel war is over, not because companies have stopped developing higher and higher MP sensors but because people have stopped caring. I use video very, very rarely but we have video to thank for this as people focus on fast read-out speeds rather than just MP count, and fast read-out is helped by lower MP count (see the brand new A7s model which has a paltry 12MP but very high read-out speeds).

Even Canon seem to have finally realised that dynamic range is important and they should put some effort into improving that rather than just upping the MPs.

My K200D was plenty at 10MP, though since getting the K3 the ability to crop quite heavily has come in handy at times, but I could probably count those times on fingers and toes. I would not want to go above ~24MP for my (non-professional) uses as I could do without the larger files.

08-14-2020, 09:48 AM   #6308
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
I
My K200D was plenty at 10MP, though since getting the K3 the ability to crop quite heavily has come in handy at times, but I could probably count those times on fingers and toes. I would not want to go above ~24MP for my (non-professional) uses as I could do without the larger files.
Totally agree with you. This is why I have never bought a K1, along with its bulk. Though the temptation is ever present! I just wish Pentax had produced a Df type FF camera. They would have done a far better job at a more reasonable price than Nikon, I am sure.
10-15-2020, 10:03 AM   #6309
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QuoteOriginally posted by ehrwien Quote
I think we're already past that. Recent models went back to the better ergonomics of space for buttons and a bigger grip that also creates a space for much needed battery capacity
The modern DSLR has ergo's figured out well. Mirrorless is not enough a draw for me to switch over. It's just a tiny liveview after all. The most attractive way to do that is how my X100S does it with both optical and digital with a quick switch, best of both worlds there.

One cameras get small the controls get all cramped up which isn't great. Lenses are always going to be big for larger sensors anyway.
10-15-2020, 11:31 AM - 1 Like   #6310
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I'm going to assume my experience is the same as many of you... "Pentax? I used to shoot film on an old Pentax." Some form of that really should be on our next Pentax Forums shirt design
10-15-2020, 02:12 PM   #6311
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A colleague at work has decided he need a new hobby, so he decided to take up photography in general and perhaps a bit of macro while he's there. He knows I do a bit of macro, so we were discussing what he would need in terms of general stuff, and I talked him through reversing the lens, using extension tubes etc.

At this point I will point out that my colleague has bought a second hand Nikon body and a couple of lenses, hey I'll still speak to him, but when investigating extension tubes he was looking for something that would match his camera body. I pointed out a couple of websites that had cheap tubes, basically a tube with mounts at either end, and pointed out it was a good starting point but he would have to focus the lens manually. He then asked about tubes that would allow the autofocus option, and I pointed out that they were available but they tended to be more expensive because of the additional wiring.

He looked confused for a moment and then asked about how we catered for the mechanical focus drive. Seems his Nikon has the opton to use focus drive in the lens through electrical contacts, but also a mechanical drive that is controlled within the body. I took a moment to understand what he was referring to, then pointed out that Pentax (to my knowledge) had never done the mechanical drive thing and always used a motor in the lens.

I think he got the point that in some cases Pentax had some very clever ideas early on, especially when I saw the location of the electrical contacts on his lens mount compared to ours
10-15-2020, 05:00 PM   #6312
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fluegel Quote
Without disclosing my age I would like to put the matter of Mega pixels into perspective.
Not even 40 years ago which is more than a lifetime in digital area I started out with what we now would consider a measly 4 Mp.
That 4 Mp digital back did not come cheaply, I paid 32.000 USD for that digital back.It was a digiback not even a camera.
It tuned out to be one of the best investments I ever made. ROI within a year because all ad agencies wanted to go digital.

Dynamic range exceeded the range of film which compensated for the low Mp count.
MF film will give a maximum of about 80 Mp.Is that enough? Not always.
Digital can beat that at a price though. Digital can even increase the best scans from film by increasing the 80 Mp through calculating extra Mp.

Nowadays for simple table top jobs I use a K10d. 10 Mp are more than enough.
IQ from the K10d is excellent. Sold the K5ii body I had for 300 USD. Did not regret the sale for one second. Great camera but not what I needed.
I found this analysis that suggests that a fine 35-mm film will give the same resolution as about 156 Mpx in a digital full-frame camera:
I STILL SHOOT FILM - The Real Resolution of Film vs. Digital
10-15-2020, 06:00 PM   #6313
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QuoteOriginally posted by Liney Quote
I took a moment to understand what he was referring to, then pointed out that Pentax (to my knowledge) had never done the mechanical drive thing and always used a motor in the lens.
Not quite sure what you are referring to here as my K3 drives the focus on most of my lenses via a little screw blade at the 5 o'clock position on the camera mount. Some of the newer lenses have a drive in the lens but not the majority. The most recent 55-300 PLM for example I think has drive by wire and after checking my Sigma 8-16 is also driven by lens motor. There are various threads in this forum talking about conversion of lenses (16-50) when the internal motors have failed and the lenses converted to screw drive.
10-15-2020, 06:04 PM   #6314
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QuoteOriginally posted by Liney Quote
Seems his Nikon has the opton to use focus drive in the lens through electrical contacts, but also a mechanical drive that is controlled within the body.
By "mechanical drive" you mean the screw-drive in Pentax bodies (well...not all, but many)?

I may not be remembering correctly, but I'm sure I've seen extension tubes with a shaft for focus in them at some point. Have certainly seen them with the mechanical aperture control.

In terms of adaptors though...I don't think there is such a thing. It should be possible to make an adapter with a focus motor in it to run a screw drive, but getting around compatibility might be a headache.

Of my current Pentax lenses, several are screw drive, and the higher end ones are all internal motors. Some have both (the current DA* 16-50 for example, which requires a firmware update to work with the screw drive - but it's a handy option with the reliability issues in that lens).
10-16-2020, 12:30 AM   #6315
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arjay Bee Quote
Not quite sure what you are referring to here as my K3 drives the focus on most of my lenses via a little screw blade at the 5 o'clock position on the camera mount. Some of the newer lenses have a drive in the lens but not the majority. The most recent 55-300 PLM for example I think has drive by wire and after checking my Sigma 8-16 is also driven by lens motor. There are various threads in this forum talking about conversion of lenses (16-50) when the internal motors have failed and the lenses converted to screw drive.
While I admit that I have only owned three Pentax bodies, I have never seen one with a mechanical auto focus drive. My first body (P30) didn't have autofocus, my K100d did but was electrical as is my K3. I had to go back and double check my K3 body and you are correct, there does appear to be a small screw blade on the lens mount ring, I never notice that or had reason to use it.
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