[Fotus Tuus]

Summarizing: Question: Which camera (system) is the best? Answer: The best camera is the one you have chosen and which you like to take your pictures with. The Pentax system is the best - for us, for Pentaxians.
Of course, users of other photographic systems think similarly about their cameras and no one can help it.
Now, I suggest that everyone take only one good photo a day, but one photo each day. Any camera can be used for this. Provided that it will be ... Pentax
Strzelaj swoje fotografie dalej, nie tylko mów o strzelaniu! Pozdrowienia!

[Photos-by-Chas]

I think that many more people do photography now than ever before -- by a long shot -- because of the good cameras in cellphones. Almost everybody has a cellphone, and the option for good photos is there every single minute because everybody carries their cellphone wherever they go. This was never the case with point-and-shoot cameras (film or digital) of decades past; many many people never owned a camera of any kind. But that has changed now with cellphones. And because almost everybody can and does take photos now due to their cellphones, there will logically be an increasing number of cellphone photographers who will want more and who will advance to ILCs, especially amongst younger people (those who don't know photography outside of a cellphone). So I don't think that the future is so bleak for Pentax if they can hang in there and look closely at these younger, eager photographers with potential interest in ILCs (or even cameras like the GR III).

I would love to know how much of the ever-increasing costs of new cellphones is due to the camera equipment inside. Given how good the camera technology is on the new cellphones, I'm guessing that the camera cost portion is not insignificant. Has anybody ever seen a breakdown of costs of the different parts of a modern cellphone?

I know nothing about the costs of cell phones or any of the components, phone or camera, but the costs are certainly going up. Another aspect of cell phones is their ability to connect to the internet from almost anywhere. I'm sure those areas have impacted the cost also.

[Alex645]

Summarizing: Question: Which camera (system) is the best? Answer: The best camera is the one you have chosen and which you like to take your pictures with.

That's a good mindset. However, many of us externalize our problems and believe if our photography is lacking, it must be because we don't have the best camera. In truth, the problem is usually the person in the mirror....(or closest to the mirror box).

[CapitanXeon]

I know nothing about the costs of cell phones or any of the components, phone or camera, but the costs are certainly going up. Another aspect of cell phones is their ability to connect to the internet from almost anywhere. I'm sure those areas have impacted the cost also.

While i know iPhones have been steadily rising manufacturing costs, last i've seen is this:
As per the report (via Nikkei), the iPhone 12 Bill of Materials (BoM) comes to $373 while that of iPhone 12 Pro is $406

Of course there's still some labor involved, but they ride on a healthy margin, that's mainly used to offset R&D. 5G on Qualcomm has seemingly been a cost driver upwards, while cameras should increase cost just for the fact we have so many of them on every phone.

[Mooncatt]

While i know iPhones have been steadily rising manufacturing costs, last i've seen is this:
As per the report (via Nikkei), the iPhone 12 Bill of Materials (BoM) comes to $373 while that of iPhone 12 Pro is $406

Of course there's still some labor involved, but they ride on a healthy margin, that's mainly used to offset R&D. 5G on Qualcomm has seemingly been a cost driver upwards, while cameras should increase cost just for the fact we have so many of them on every phone.

Don't forget the cost of advertising, utility bills, legal bills, compliance costs, payroll, etc. I hate those reports that list the cost of materials only, because it leaves out so much. The only thing it accomplishes is furthering the mindset of those just being "greedy corporations." But hey, if you think you can develop, build, market, and distribute a phone comparable to the iPhone 12 Pro for that little, have at it and good luck.

[jgnfld]

...many of us externalize our problems and believe if our photography is lacking, it must be because we don't have the best camera. ...

"Many"???

I'd vote "most"!!!

[MikeyBugs95]

That's a good mindset. However, many of us externalize our problems and believe if our photography is lacking, it must be because we don't have the best camera. In truth, the problem is usually the person in the mirror....(or closest to the mirror box).

"Many"???

I'd vote "most"!!!

To be fair, that's pretty much the premise of the marketing that the photography companies rely on. "If you want to be better, get this fancy new 5-to-gazillion millimeter lens! And of course you can't be good if you don't attach it to our brand new 100Mp camera with 1000 autofocus points!"

[barefootdesigns]

My son is a jeweler and purveyor of minerals at the gem and mineral shop that he and his wife recently opened in Newport, RI. He needed a better camera for his jewelry work and so I gave him my Kx and a couple of lenses, including a fast 50 with macro. I honestly don't remember which particular lens it was, but I was trying to set him up with a good system. He seemed to be a bit overwhelmed with it when I asked how it was working out. He said that he mostly likes a small but good point-and-shoot. He seems to be quite satisfied with his own setup and gets good pix. Now I wish I hadn't sent that camera into oblivion. (Idiot!)

I am reluctant to question him about the fate of that setup, but it seems a waste to let him keep it if he's not using it. The Kx was one of my favorites. I mentioned that it has good resale value but he is a very busy person and never really told me what he had done. How can I ask him to sell it or return it so it's not simply sitting in a case not being used? I don't want to seem like an Indian giver, but my effort to involve him with Pentax has fallen on its face and I'm stuck about what to do. Any suggestions? I sure would love to have him become a Pentaxian but I seem to have overstepped there.

[richard0170]

While i know iPhones have been steadily rising manufacturing costs, last i've seen is this:
As per the report (via Nikkei), the iPhone 12 Bill of Materials (BoM) comes to $373 while that of iPhone 12 Pro is $406

Of course there's still some labor involved, but they ride on a healthy margin, that's mainly used to offset R&D. 5G on Qualcomm has seemingly been a cost driver upwards, while cameras should increase cost just for the fact we have so many of them on every phone.

Do not forget logistics and marketing costs too. Then we need to add on the company's and retailer's profits. It soon adds up!

I want my phone to be overwhelmingly used for phone calls and texts. Sure it has secondary uses, emergency camera and internet access, the odd game to alleviate moments of boredom in my case, so the massive increase in expense of the high end models over a cheaper one is simply not justifiable to me. My cheap phone produces perfectly fine images for online sharing or showing people via its screen. Which is how most people use the camera on their phones most of the time. Now I am well aware that many people use their phones for all manner of other things and in those cases my cheapie would not be suitable. The BoMs you quote are 4 times the price I paid for my phone! I reckon most of this extra cost has to be in the camera functions. Else why would so much marketing effort by them be about how wonderful the images they produce are? In order of frequency the adverts I see are for the camera functions, then some USP like a built in pen or a folding screen, then 5G (without any explanation of what it is, what it is capable of or how it is any improvement over 3 or 4G).
I do not understand why any one would buy a high end phone just for its camera functions. If I were being driven into photography through my experience of my simple camera on my existing phone, it would be cheaper to experiment with a used digital camera and if I enjoyed it go onto invest in something more up to date. I think we have reached or are close to the bottom of the camera market. Everyone who would in the past have bought a PAS now uses a smartphone instead. If they want more photographically out of their smartphone than their current model they have a choice of a very expensive phone, which is still compromised in terms of IQ and handling, or a real camera. The difference in cost of owning both a real camera and a cheap but adequate phone and just a high end phone is now negligible.

[tim60]

The main use I put my phone to is on data services. Internet access for general web browsing, podcasts, and WhatsApp voice calls which sure beat phone calls to people you have connections with, when you have an unlimited data deal.
Looking for the day when there will be a WhatsApp directory for businesses and government offices so you can call them with phone calls too.
Then you would be almost certain that if someone called your phone number they were a scammer, with the rare exception of along lost friend.

[totsmuyco]

People don't buy high end phones just for the camera. The camera is just one of the features they like. High-end phones offer higher memory, better processors and other functions that they are now computers. Basically it's back to an all in one gadget requirement that makes it simple for people.

[Jonathan Mac]

I think that many more people do photography now than ever before -- by a long shot -- because of the good cameras in cellphones. Almost everybody has a cellphone, and the option for good photos is there every single minute because everybody carries their cellphone wherever they go. This was never the case with point-and-shoot cameras (film or digital) of decades past; many many people never owned a camera of any kind. But that has changed now with cellphones. And because almost everybody can and does take photos now due to their cellphones, there will logically be an increasing number of cellphone photographers who will want more and who will advance to ILCs, especially amongst younger people (those who don't know photography outside of a cellphone). So I don't think that the future is so bleak for Pentax if they can hang in there and look closely at these younger, eager photographers with potential interest in ILCs (or even cameras like the GR III).

I would love to know how much of the ever-increasing costs of new cellphones is due to the camera equipment inside. Given how good the camera technology is on the new cellphones, I'm guessing that the camera cost portion is not insignificant. Has anybody ever seen a breakdown of costs of the different parts of a modern cellphone?

I remember reading in the not-too-distant past (ie in the last two years) that the camera portion of an iPhone makes up 25% of the cost of components. I'm not sure if that's still true but I'd bet it's not far off. I'm also not sure if that proportion is true of the development.

[CapitanXeon]

But hey, if you think you can develop, build, market, and distribute a phone comparable to the iPhone 12 Pro for that little, have at it and good luck.

[...]but they ride on a healthy margin, that's mainly used to offset R&D.

I think i've tried to be fair, don't you think?

[Trey45]

In the final issue of Popular Photography they listed cell phone cameras as one of the reasons they were going out of publication.

[Mooncatt]

[...]but they ride on a healthy margin, that's mainly used to offset R&D.

I think i've tried to be fair, don't you think?

R&D its certainly part of the equation, and that is why I didn't list it along with the other variables earlier in my comment; it would've been redundant to your comment.