[Photos-by-Chas]

The ONLY reason I can think of to justify a particular brand be used by a photographer is if the work flow involves the employer taking possession of the RAW files and processing them themselves.

The company I worked for required use of Canon cameras because they had a tethering program dedicated to Canon. The company also furnished the cameras to be used. I've been a Pentax fan since the late 1980s and found the Canon to be acceptable, but it felt so different in my hands. It was a capable camera, however ergonomically, I preferred my Pentax.

This is so true. I tried the secret shopper thing for a bit, and one of my assignments was to go to Best Buy and pretend to be looking at buying a new DSLR. Do you have any idea how hard it is to not only pretend to be less informed than the employee, but to do so with a straight face?

Reminds me of an experience I had several years ago in a Best Buy, I think it was. I liked to look at the offerings of photographic equipment in stores just to see what was available. Anyway, in that particular store, I overheard a lady, talking with a clerk. She was looking for a camera for a relative and was not sure of what to buy. The clerk sounded as though he knew very little about cameras and seemed to be steering the lady toward higher priced cameras (maybe he worked on commission). I could not resist and hijacked the conversation by saying something like, I was sorry to interrupt but maybe I could help. The lady explained what she was looking for and the fact that her relative was new to photography and not very knowledgeable about the subject. So I proceeded to give her some advice as the clerk sort of slinked away until time to close the deal. The lady thanked me for helping and ended up buying a lesser expensive P&S instead of DSR that she thought would confuse the recipient. To me it was obvious the clerk knew very little about cameras or photography.

[Mooncatt]

Reminds me of an experience I had several years ago in a Best Buy, I think it was. I liked to look at the offerings of photographic equipment in stores just to see what was available. Anyway, in that particular store, I overheard a lady, talking with a clerk. She was looking for a camera for a relative and was not sure of what to buy. The clerk sounded as though he knew very little about cameras and seemed to be steering the lady toward higher priced cameras (maybe he worked on commission). I could not resist and hijacked the conversation by saying something like, I was sorry to interrupt but maybe I could help. The lady explained what she was looking for and the fact that her relative was new to photography and not very knowledgeable about the subject. So I proceeded to give her some advice as the clerk sort of slinked away until time to close the deal. The lady thanked me for helping and ended up buying a lesser expensive P&S instead of DSR that she thought would confuse the recipient. To me it was obvious the clerk knew very little about cameras or photography.

To be fair, you do occasionally find people at those stores that know what they are talking about (I used to be that way when I worked at Wal-Mart), but the problem is a lot of those associates are bounced around and have to be a jack of all, master of none type worker. I can't really expect them to know everything about everything at any big box store, but was still awkward not being able to turn the associate away because they couldn't help much.

[Photos-by-Chas]

To be fair, you do occasionally find people at those stores that know what they are talking about (I used to be that way when I worked at Wal-Mart), but the problem is a lot of those associates are bounced around and have to be a jack of all, master of none type worker. I can't really expect them to know everything about everything at any big box store, but was still awkward not being able to turn the associate away because they couldn't help much.

You have a good and appropriate point. In my example, though, the associate seemed exceptionally lost when it came to photography in general and more so regarding cameras specifically. I could not stand by and see someone buy something that would quite possibly get disregarded in a very short time and the possible loss of a potential photographer. I figure photography is like learning to be a world class track star, one starts with baby steps then learns to walk before learning to run.

[Cerebum]

You have a good and appropriate point. In my example, though, the associate seemed exceptionally lost when it came to photography in general and more so regarding cameras specifically. I could not stand by and see someone buy something that would quite possibly get disregarded in a very short time and the possible loss of a potential photographer. I figure photography is like learning to be a world class track star, one starts with baby steps then learns to walk before learning to run.

I have often thought that there must be thousands of great but inappropriate ceras in sock drawers. Part of the problem, particularly with chains, is that the staff have targets and incentives and the poor customer is a means to an end. OK, they probably get a great camera, it just may not be the right camera

[Mooncatt]

OK, they probably get a great camera, it just may not be the right camera

That is such a huge factor with anything. It's easy to sell something on being the latest and greatest, but takes skill to know something like that will easily overwhelm a beginner just wanting a decent point and shoot option.

[archaeodude]

What an interesting thread filled with lots of interesting comments!

I experimented with my mom's old Pentax K1000 about 15 years ago but then began my digital camera journey in 2011 with an Olympus E-PM1 and have stayed with the Micro Four Thirds system (currently using a Panasonic G80 / G85) since then due to its ease of adapting vintage glass from all the major camera brands. With Olympus seemingly on the path to moving out of this market space, I've drifted to the Pentax system in part because I own a smattering of cheap, manual-focus film lenses already. I recently got a good deal on a lightly-used Pentax K-5 accompanied by a Sigma 17-70mm Contemporary lens.

If I'm being completely honest, the level of interaction and good-natured cameraderie on this forum has played a significant role in my decision to move towards Pentax. I am not in a financial position to "upgrade" to a different Pentax body anytime soon (maybe in 3-5 years :O), but I'm looking forward to trying to make the most of the K-5 with a view to sticking with Pentax moving forward!

[StiffLegged]

...If I'm being completely honest, the level of interaction and good-natured cameraderie on this forum has played a significant role in my decision to move towards Pentax...

I've looked at some other forums but that is a fair assessment: long may it remain so, rare though we may be.

[Philoslothical]

ROFL! You're a better man than I, Gunga Din... I couldn't have done it at all, straight face or no straight face. That's hysterical!

Ever hear of a computer company called "Tiger Direct"? They were based here in Miami and for some years actually had a couple of physical stores in addition to the (very large) online ordering service. One of those stores, the main one actually, was quite nearby and a very convenient place for "stuff". They added other electronics to the inventory, eventually including some cameras... lo! Pentax! In the store! The selection was very, very limited, and included (as I recall) a red Kx one day. Very attractive price, I was interested in it...they would not take it out of the box, told me I had to buy it in order to touch it. They didn't even want me to touch the box...sales geek would carry it to the register, I could touch it after purchasing it. What? No lie, it was the most bizarre experience. I didn't buy it.

Tiger Direct is no longer in business here, they do still sell online, but the company moved to California.

The audacity! I would have walked away, too. This reminds me of when I bought my first DSLR back in 2011, maybe because it was the opposite experience. I have a relative who shoots Canon, but I did my research and I found Pentax to be more tinkering friendly, so I found my closest local dealer a couple of towns over and went to check them out. It was a Black's Photography store, not long before they went under. I had pretty much decided on a K-r at that point, and they had the usual lineup for the time, K-x, K-r, K-7, and I think their K-5 was out of stock. In retrospect I should have got a K-7, as it's a beast of a camera for its generation (and what I'm still using right now), but I selected for the K-r and the salesperson got one, opened up the box, put the lens on, stuck a charged battery in (they had a few!), and handed it to me to try it out. The tactic worked, I snapped a few, checked some settings, and it seemed great in my hands, so I bought it on the spot along with a cheap Sigma 70-300mm. I soon added an old 50mm f./2 from Kijiji and a ring flash and tubes from the marketplace forum here, and that was my kit for a very long time. My K-r lasted 9 years and 116k clicks. I'd buy that salesperson a beer if I could.

I wonder what I would have ended up doing if I hadn't bought that day because the salesperson chose to behave like yours did.

[OrchidJulie]

The audacity! I would have walked away, too.

I wonder what I would have ended up doing if I hadn't bought that day because the salesperson chose to behave like yours did.

It was bizarre, no mistake. But I didn't go into the store intending to buy a camera, that was a major factor. We just sort of stumbled on it when we noticed they actually had some cameras, went over to the display to check them out. No display-model Pentaxes, the Kx was in a box inside a mesh-front cabinet. I already had my Kr (trusty little beast that it is!), only gave some brief thought to the Kx because the price was attractive. So it was sort of a lark, to be honest, but I couldn't believe the way they behaved. No kidding, they would not even let me touch the box unless I paid for it first! No way, José! Funny, I don't remember, now, if it was body-only or if it had some entry-level kit lens in the box. As I couldn't get near the box, I never looked closely at it.

Now if they had had a display model available for touchy-feely, I might have brought the box home. They did have some other brands in display models, no recollection of what they were (Canikon, without a doubt, but which? I dunno, probably entry-level). Vague recollection that none of them had a lens attached...what good is that? Obviously they weren't serious about selling cameras!

[Philoslothical]

Perhaps they'd had people attempt the old grab and run recently, but it's an awful policy and they didn't know how to make a sale, or didn't care. One thing I remember about the Black's I went to was that their entry level Canikon models were at inflated prices compared to what I'd looked at online, but their Pentax prices were almost at parity (which is a reason I went there). Maybe they were trying to unload them, or maybe they were just trying to fleece the people who gravitate to the most advertised brands. I was very happy with my experience there though.

If they were worried about ending up with an open-box copy, they could have done the old switch where they keep them all behind the counter, but one of them has been opened and is used for demos. If the customer bites they can just grab a fresh one. Of course in my case I'd be testing it, too.

Ah well, at the stage we're at now we're wishing there were still brick and mortar stores to go to.

[Photos-by-Chas]

Ah well, at the stage we're at now we're wishing there were still brick and mortar stores to go to.

This is a major obstacle to camera purchase for me. The closest B&M camera store is around two hours drive time, each way, for this rural town I'm in. There was one about twenty minutes away but it closed several years ago. The four DSLRs I've owned were bought online and I only had the opportunity to handle a friend's camera that was the first model I bought. However, reading reviews and comments by others here and other websites, I have a good idea of which upgrade I'd like to make and can buy with some confidence from the Pentax line. I'd still like a real store to go in and look over the new models as they arrive, though.

[Philoslothical]

This is a major obstacle to camera purchase for me.

I think this is true for many people, and I suspect it's one of the factors leading to the decline of DSLR popularity relative to smaller cameras. Back then I was very uncomfortable with the idea of buying my first DSLR online because I knew it had to be the right choice for me, so I had to hold one and verify with my eyes that it could do what I expected, and that it felt right. Like a new pair of shoes.

There is a way to somewhat mitigate the risk and uncertainty with online buying. The various protections offered by payment processors like PayPal, or sites like Ebay are often slanted in favour of the buyer, so it is possible to shop with that in mind, so that you're assured of a smooth return should you want that. It's the time involved. It takes so much time to ship stuff back and forth that it's much less appealing than going to a shop, but it's something, and buyer protections have evolved quite a bit since I bought my first camera.

[Jonathan Mac]

The first camera I bought about 1980 the shop had a display version. I decided to buy. They got a new box and opened it in front of me to verify that there was a real camera in the box. Even in Australia, it seems, there had been cases of bricks in new boxes.

That wouldn't work now for the majority of cameras - far too heavy.

As for Canon, when I bought my first DSLR (K200D) I couldn't understand why anyone would buy Canon or Nikon, their comparable models were much lower spec and built like toys. I think people buy them either thinking themselves, or someone else saying to them, "if I decide to upgrade I can get something much better without changing lenses/brand". They then never go beyond the kit lens.

I have heard that the reason people shoot Canon is the lenses, which are supposedly very good, but you're talking about the pro level ones, which the vast majority of people will never use. Even now, when Canon have finally made some decent sensors to put in their cameras, most models still have the crappy ones. I never recommend Canon to anyone for that reason alone.

[tim60]

Now a brick is not the right cheap weight but the nefarious could find something that would make a sealed box feel right to the average person.

[Lord Lucan]

they could have done the old switch where they keep them all behind the counter, but one of them has been opened and is used for demos

That was standard practice when I bought my first SLR in central London, 1980s. I would not have wanted the one being demonstrated as I would not know how many peopel had already handled it, lost bits of packaging, small accessories etc. But at that time, shops in central London had such a turnover that they could afford to have demo models available. I don't think there would have been any trouble about taking it back if the thing was defective, a highly unlikely chance anyway.

There would have been no point in my handling my K-1 befre I bought it, because it was the only option of a FF K mount DSLR. In any case, these days there is so much info on the web about stuff, far more than there used to be in the old paper photo mags, that you know what to expect. Personally I am not very bothered about the how it fits in my hand aspect, it can be like a breeze block as far as I am concerned - the K-1 almost is.