Shutter Count changed

NeverSatisfied · 08-08-2010, 09:30 PM

My shutter count on my K20D was just under 10,000, but recently I went on a weekend trip, shot a couple hundred photos, and suddenly I'm down into the mid-8000's! I noticed as I was downloading some of the weekend's images into LightRoom, that they were coming in as, "IMGP0001", etc. Well I figured that out, the camera rolled over from 9999, to 0001, BUT, somehow it jumped from 0074, to 8615, all in the same day's shooting. The camera has now continued with that sequence and it's currently up to about 8900.
I know I probably swapped SD cards at some time during the day in question, however they were good-quality cards, both Sandisk Extreme III, one 4 GB, and one 8 GB.
Anyone ever had this happen to them? Any thoughts on why this happened? For sure it's not the end of the world, but I'm certainly puzzled!

deadwolfbones · 08-08-2010, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied

My shutter count on my K20D was just under 10,000, but recently I went on a weekend trip, shot a couple hundred photos, and suddenly I'm down into the mid-8000's! I noticed as I was downloading some of the weekend's images into LightRoom, that they were coming in as, "IMGP0001", etc. Well I figured that out, the camera rolled over from 9999, to 0001, BUT, somehow it jumped from 0074, to 8615, all in the same day's shooting. The camera has now continued with that sequence and it's currently up to about 8900.
I know I probably swapped SD cards at some time during the day in question, however they were good-quality cards, both Sandisk Extreme III, one 4 GB, and one 8 GB.
Anyone ever had this happen to them? Any thoughts on why this happened? For sure it's not the end of the world, but I'm certainly puzzled!

If you've used your card with another camera, or had used it previously with the same camera, that could explain the file numbers jumping around. Afaik the true shutter count will still be in the EXIF, but the camera numbering gets confused when you swap memory cards between cameras/between time periods.

NeverSatisfied · 08-08-2010, 10:06 PM

Yea I think I was running out of space on the first card, changed over, and then maybe later on re-used the first one to get a few more shots. Interesting, I'll check the EXIF and see what it says. Thanks!

MSM · 08-09-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied

Yea I think I was running out of space on the first card, changed over, and then maybe later on re-used the first one to get a few more shots. Interesting, I'll check the EXIF and see what it says. Thanks!

I had the same thing happen to me with my old K10D. I didn't know what happened either. My thoughts at the time was that I switched out my SD card around the time of rolling over the count number with a card that had not been reformatted and the camera just picked up with a lower number below 10K. When I replaced my SD card, it started over in the numbering sequence again.

**ismaelg** · 08-09-2010, 11:41 AM

In order to see true shutter count, download PhotoMe, a freeware software, and open the latest image from your camera. The information will be shown under manufacturers notes.
Don't be alarmed if the shutter count is above what you thought. New cameras come with usually about 250-300 actuations during testing and manufacturing.

Thanks,

NeverSatisfied · 08-09-2010, 12:56 PM

Thanks Ismael, I'll try that. I did look at the EXIF info through LightRoom's metadata, but it didn't show anything different than the camera's count.

noblepa · 08-09-2010, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied

Thanks Ismael, I'll try that. I did look at the EXIF info through LightRoom's metadata, but it didn't show anything different than the camera's count.

The shutter count in the EXIF data IS the camera's count. It can not be changed or reset. Ever. It does not wrap around back to 1.

OTOH, the so-called count that is used in the image name can be reset or changed at will. It resets to 1 after you've shot 9,999 images. The only reliable shutter count is the one in the EXIF.

BTW, there is no way to display the true shutter count on the camera. Many have suggested this as a simple firmware change, but, so far, Pentax has not provided this function. The only way to know the true shutter count is to look at the EXIF.

The image name is, at best, an approximation of the true shutter count.

UnknownVT · 08-09-2010, 02:47 PM

As others have said Image filename/frame count is not a reliable way of keeping the shutter (actuation) count as it can be reset any time:

page 230 of Pentax K20D manual -

and as found using SD(HC) cards that had remaining shots on
(with a filename/frame number that's higher than the one in the K20D's temporary memory) -
could also fool the K20D into using the next consecutive number.

Again as others have said - the true shot count is in the EXIF data under manufacturer's notes in a field called Shutter Count.

If PhotoMe is used do a find (cntrl-F) on the words shutter count and the actuation count is shown.

MSM · 08-09-2010, 09:52 PM

Just curious but when one does say stop down metering or digital or optical preview does this add to the shutter count? What about when setting custom white balance is that adding to the shutter count?

NeverSatisfied · 08-09-2010, 10:18 PM

UnknownVT, thanks for that info- that also reminds of a question I've had. Either I didn't think it possible, or I don't understand that bit you posted from the manual, but can you create new folders whenever you want? Say for example you shot a bunch of portraits, then later the same day you shoot some landscapes. It would be nice to start a new folder for the new shoot. If it can be done, can somebody explain it better than the manual? Thanks!

TomK · 08-10-2010, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by MSM

digital or optical preview does this add to the shutter count?

Yes, I recall reading here or somewhere that both of these do add to the count.

clark · 08-10-2010, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by TomK

Yes, I recall reading here or somewhere that both of these do add to the count.

surely doing a 'depth of field preview' doesnt touch the shutter though, surely that's just the lens aperture closing down?

I use 3 SD cards with my DL and I have no problems with the numbers not following on from each other

View · 09-15-2010, 03:01 PM

The file number sequence just follows on from the previous number and isn't a shutter count. You could if you want, change the digits in explorer to prove the point. If you use many cards then each card would continue in sequence without refference to the other cards or sequence.

I haven't checked this but would suppose this to be true. If the camera nameing setting is differrent from or changed from those on the card, a new folder maybe made.

Optical Preview (stop down) may not add to shutter count but digital (which actually takes a shot) will.

Mirror Up will also add to count.*

Forgot to mention, any shutter actuation will advance shutter count regardless of a memory card inserted to record this increase. The next recorded image will however account for this increase.

However, to record these extra counts you may need to take a picture so that the updated information can be writen.

ExifTool and it's GUI are also good

*Doesn't add to shutter count even though shutter is opened and closed (GX-10).

Check "Memory of Settings" Regarding File Sequence in camera menu (GX10)

**Lowell Goudge** · 09-15-2010, 06:21 PM

The reset procedure is dead simple

Get an empty card, format it and put an image with the file number you want to start from on the card

Turn on the camera and reset the numbering

Turn off the camera and insert the card with the image you placed on it

Turn on the camera and take a shot

The camera will always start a t the higher of it's image counter or the image number on the card

jjdgti · 09-16-2010, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by noblepa

The shutter count in the EXIF data IS the camera's count. It can not be changed or reset. Ever. It does not wrap around back to 1.

OTOH, the so-called count that is used in the image name can be reset or changed at will. It resets to 1 after you've shot 9,999 images. The only reliable shutter count is the one in the EXIF.

BTW, there is no way to display the true shutter count on the camera. Many have suggested this as a simple firmware change, but, so far, Pentax has not provided this function. The only way to know the true shutter count is to look at the EXIF.

The image name is, at best, an approximation of the true shutter count.

As Paul says the image count by the camera resets to 1 after 9999. This by no means is the shutter count. You need to download photome to find out the real shutter count number in the EXIF.

08-08-2010, 09:30 PM	#1
NeverSatisfied Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 688	Shutter Count changed My shutter count on my K20D was just under 10,000, but recently I went on a weekend trip, shot a couple hundred photos, and suddenly I'm down into the mid-8000's! I noticed as I was downloading some of the weekend's images into LightRoom, that they were coming in as, "IMGP0001", etc. Well I figured that out, the camera rolled over from 9999, to 0001, BUT, somehow it jumped from 0074, to 8615, all in the same day's shooting. The camera has now continued with that sequence and it's currently up to about 8900. I know I probably swapped SD cards at some time during the day in question, however they were good-quality cards, both Sandisk Extreme III, one 4 GB, and one 8 GB. Anyone ever had this happen to them? Any thoughts on why this happened? For sure it's not the end of the world, but I'm certainly puzzled!

08-09-2010, 02:47 PM	#8
UnknownVT Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,812	As others have said Image filename/frame count is not a reliable way of keeping the shutter (actuation) count as it can be reset any time: page 230 of Pentax K20D manual - and as found using SD(HC) cards that had remaining shots on (with a filename/frame number that's higher than the one in the K20D's temporary memory) - could also fool the K20D into using the next consecutive number. Again as others have said - the true shot count is in the EXIF data under manufacturer's notes in a field called Shutter Count. If PhotoMe is used do a find (cntrl-F) on the words shutter count and the actuation count is shown. Last edited by UnknownVT; 08-09-2010 at 11:40 PM. Reason: typos

08-09-2010, 10:18 PM	#10
NeverSatisfied Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 688 Original Poster	Folders UnknownVT, thanks for that info- that also reminds of a question I've had. Either I didn't think it possible, or I don't understand that bit you posted from the manual, but can you create new folders whenever you want? Say for example you shot a bunch of portraits, then later the same day you shoot some landscapes. It would be nice to start a new folder for the new shoot. If it can be done, can somebody explain it better than the manual? Thanks!

09-15-2010, 03:01 PM	#13
View Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Stafordshire UK Posts: 26	The file number sequence just follows on from the previous number and isn't a shutter count. You could if you want, change the digits in explorer to prove the point. If you use many cards then each card would continue in sequence without refference to the other cards or sequence. I haven't checked this but would suppose this to be true. If the camera nameing setting is differrent from or changed from those on the card, a new folder maybe made. Optical Preview (stop down) may not add to shutter count but digital (which actually takes a shot) will. Mirror Up will also add to count.* Forgot to mention, any shutter actuation will advance shutter count regardless of a memory card inserted to record this increase. The next recorded image will however account for this increase. However, to record these extra counts you may need to take a picture so that the updated information can be writen. ExifTool and it's GUI are also good Doesn't add to shutter count even though shutter is opened and closed (GX-10). Check "Memory of Settings" Regarding File Sequence in camera menu (GX10) Last edited by View; 09-17-2010 at 12:18 PM. Reason: [color=red][/color]info update

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08-08-2010, 09:47 PM	#2
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Originally posted by NeverSatisfied My shutter count on my K20D was just under 10,000, but recently I went on a weekend trip, shot a couple hundred photos, and suddenly I'm down into the mid-8000's! I noticed as I was downloading some of the weekend's images into LightRoom, that they were coming in as, "IMGP0001", etc. Well I figured that out, the camera rolled over from 9999, to 0001, BUT, somehow it jumped from 0074, to 8615, all in the same day's shooting. The camera has now continued with that sequence and it's currently up to about 8900. I know I probably swapped SD cards at some time during the day in question, however they were good-quality cards, both Sandisk Extreme III, one 4 GB, and one 8 GB. Anyone ever had this happen to them? Any thoughts on why this happened? For sure it's not the end of the world, but I'm certainly puzzled! If you've used your card with another camera, or had used it previously with the same camera, that could explain the file numbers jumping around. Afaik the true shutter count will still be in the EXIF, but the camera numbering gets confused when you swap memory cards between cameras/between time periods.

08-08-2010, 10:06 PM	#3
NeverSatisfied Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 688 Original Poster	Yea I think I was running out of space on the first card, changed over, and then maybe later on re-used the first one to get a few more shots. Interesting, I'll check the EXIF and see what it says. Thanks!

08-09-2010, 11:30 AM	#4
MSM Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 994	Originally posted by NeverSatisfied Yea I think I was running out of space on the first card, changed over, and then maybe later on re-used the first one to get a few more shots. Interesting, I'll check the EXIF and see what it says. Thanks! I had the same thing happen to me with my old K10D. I didn't know what happened either. My thoughts at the time was that I switched out my SD card around the time of rolling over the count number with a card that had not been reformatted and the camera just picked up with a lower number below 10K. When I replaced my SD card, it started over in the numbering sequence again.

08-09-2010, 11:41 AM	#5
ismaelg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,681	In order to see true shutter count, download PhotoMe, a freeware software, and open the latest image from your camera. The information will be shown under manufacturers notes. Don't be alarmed if the shutter count is above what you thought. New cameras come with usually about 250-300 actuations during testing and manufacturing. Thanks,

08-09-2010, 12:56 PM	#6
NeverSatisfied Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 688 Original Poster	Thanks Ismael, I'll try that. I did look at the EXIF info through LightRoom's metadata, but it didn't show anything different than the camera's count.

08-09-2010, 02:02 PM	#7
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	Originally posted by NeverSatisfied Thanks Ismael, I'll try that. I did look at the EXIF info through LightRoom's metadata, but it didn't show anything different than the camera's count. The shutter count in the EXIF data IS the camera's count. It can not be changed or reset. Ever. It does not wrap around back to 1. OTOH, the so-called count that is used in the image name can be reset or changed at will. It resets to 1 after you've shot 9,999 images. The only reliable shutter count is the one in the EXIF. BTW, there is no way to display the true shutter count on the camera. Many have suggested this as a simple firmware change, but, so far, Pentax has not provided this function. The only way to know the true shutter count is to look at the EXIF. The image name is, at best, an approximation of the true shutter count.

08-09-2010, 09:52 PM	#9
MSM Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 994	Just curious but when one does say stop down metering or digital or optical preview does this add to the shutter count? What about when setting custom white balance is that adding to the shutter count?

08-10-2010, 06:12 PM	#11
TomK Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NJ USA Posts: 281	Originally posted by MSM digital or optical preview does this add to the shutter count? Yes, I recall reading here or somewhere that both of these do add to the count.

08-10-2010, 06:16 PM	#12
clark Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 301	Originally posted by TomK Yes, I recall reading here or somewhere that both of these do add to the count. surely doing a 'depth of field preview' doesnt touch the shutter though, surely that's just the lens aperture closing down? I use 3 SD cards with my DL and I have no problems with the numbers not following on from each other

09-15-2010, 06:21 PM	#14
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	The reset procedure is dead simple Get an empty card, format it and put an image with the file number you want to start from on the card Turn on the camera and reset the numbering Turn off the camera and insert the card with the image you placed on it Turn on the camera and take a shot The camera will always start a t the higher of it's image counter or the image number on the card

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09-16-2010, 12:58 PM	#15
jjdgti Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 1,824	Originally posted by noblepa The shutter count in the EXIF data IS the camera's count. It can not be changed or reset. Ever. It does not wrap around back to 1. OTOH, the so-called count that is used in the image name can be reset or changed at will. It resets to 1 after you've shot 9,999 images. The only reliable shutter count is the one in the EXIF. BTW, there is no way to display the true shutter count on the camera. Many have suggested this as a simple firmware change, but, so far, Pentax has not provided this function. The only way to know the true shutter count is to look at the EXIF. The image name is, at best, an approximation of the true shutter count. As Paul says the image count by the camera resets to 1 after 9999. This by no means is the shutter count. You need to download photome to find out the real shutter count number in the EXIF.