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09-28-2012, 09:30 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The K5 is what the K7 should have been
True, but that is not by the technical merit of Pentax. They just used a better sensor supplier. Their important work was done for the K-7 and that is why I think the K-7 model is historical in terms of the evolution of their technology. The 645D is itself a larger K-7.

I am not trying to diminish the K-5. As a product it is clearly superior to the K-7, no doubt about that. But historically speaking, the innovation was revealed into the K-7 model.

09-29-2012, 02:46 PM   #32
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laurentiu has a good point here. though do not underestimate what it means to "just take" a new sensor and put it in a camera (i'd assume it's not exactly easy, especially if you want to do it properly -- note how the k-5 seems to squeeze every little drop of juice out of it, beating other implementations (if even by a narrow margin), aa filter not withstanding)

i've been hearing the "k-5 is what k-7 should have been" and "k-7 high iso was inferior" or "k20d high iso was inferior", for too long; i'll say it again: please, get over it, it's wrong. the k20d had a state of the art sensor when it came out. i'm not selling mine btw, i still love it in some ways more than the k-5. the k-7 was the best it could realistically be at the time, the k-5 sensor was not available at the time, and the samsung-pentax sensor in k-7+k20d was still really really good when k-7 came out (a case of "nothing wrong with it"). Looking back from today, it may look "inferior", but that's irrelevant (and, again, i still will gladly shot my k20d today, and not feel compelled to apologize for the results). keep in mind the sensor in the k-5 is actually more in it's "time" today, rather than 2y ago, it was sort of alien tech 2y ago, today it looks current. so the k-5 is what the k-5II should have been, and we should be glad (and yes, the beer goes to the sony engineer who designed the sensor, mostly, but not only).

and back to laurentiu's remark: the k-7 body is unanimously considered one of the best available today (ergonomics, build, features etc), the only "reservation" is af tracking i suppose (but it's arguable if that's "body"). that is a great achievement by pentax. i am of the opinion that the k10d body was the same in it's time, and i actually have at least one friend who was set on getting the nikon d80 at that time, but i somehow convinced him to handle the k10d first, before deciding, when i asked him some time later, the reply was along the lines "what, do you think i'm stupid? no contest, got the k10d". imho, both the k10d body (k20d included) and the k-7 (k-5) are lessons in design, they are nearly perfect as photographer tools (and i'm tempted to include the k100d here, for it's class; i had the nikon d50 before, which was the same "segment", and i can tell you, again, no contest. i don't think it's worth mentioning the rebel of that time...). don't know about the previous *ist models, but since k100d/k10d at least, pentax has been making outstanding body designs, that's quite something. keep in mind nikon has been good meanwhile, but not as good (i won't get started on how many hands you need for accessing some features..), and canon, imho, all over the place (depending on segment and year), though i haven't used any canon for a long enough length of time.

just my three cents
09-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
i am of the opinion that the k10d body was the same in it's time
Perhaps even more than the K-7 in some respects. I think both these bodies are historical. K10D was ahead of any other camera in its price range - I am not sure if there even were any cameras in its range that could be considered competitors. If I remember well, even dpreview mentioned that it competed with cameras from the next price bucket from Canon/Nikon. The K-7 perfected the shape of the body and the control layout besides upgrading all important technologies inside (SR, DR, ...) and adding cool features like the digital level and the in-camera HDR. But by the time it was released, it had heavy competition compared to the K10D. The Nikon D90, released before the K-7, had a sensor that was better in every respect and it still fares well in comparisons today. The D90 is Nikon's historical product in the APS-C segment.

I sometimes wonder if we would have seen cameras like the D90, 60D, 7D if it wasn't for Pentax's K10D. Probably not as fast.
11-04-2012, 11:57 AM   #34
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probably not ever: without competition, there is no incentive for the people controlling the market to offer something which is "out of the pattern". keep in mind both canon 40d and nikon d80 have not been weather sealed, this trend has been started with dslrs (enthusiast level) by the k10d; the same goes for the stabilized kit lenses form both canon and nikon (okay, olympus and minolta helped with that). canon and nikon never seem to compete with eachother, so much as "slice the market in a friendly manner": if either comes up with something really different, it means war, and both have the means to wage it, and neither wants to (note how both 6d and d600 fell on the same price point, amazing coincidence, isn't it? this is "gentlemen at war", it's clear there will be people joining either system because of these cameras, only people not sane/wise would decide based on a few hundreds dolar difference on the body, but there's plenty of such people, and both apparently agreed to not start that war, and keep the fight at the level of features, system-wide choice, and so on)

btw, it feels to me the d7000 is the historical move by nikon: it's the first "uncrippled" enthusiast level body they released, in the sense the k10d was (sealed, old lens compatibility -- even better than pentax now(?) -- the "sensor of the decade", and overall features they never put in anything bellow the dx00 series).

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