K10D image rotation - what am I doing wrong?

Mandi · 08-24-2007, 12:56 AM

G'day

One of the features that I was quite keen on when I was researching digital cameras was automatic rotation of images because I shoot in "portrait" mode a lot. I understood "automatic rotation" to mean that if I took a picture in "portrait" mode (ie, with the camera held "sideways") that a sensor inside the K10D would detect that I had turned the camera and would download it to my computer in "portrait" mode - thus saving me the chore of turning 70% or more of my images before I can even start work on them. I have set "Saving Rotation Info" to ON and yet all my images transfer in "landscape" mode irrespective. What am I doing wrong?

Incidentally I can get it to rotate in playback without a problem, so I know the sensor is sensing correctly. But that's pretty pointless - if you turned the camera to shoot, you can turn it to look at the LCD. Turning my computer monitor is harder!!!

Any advice gratefully received...!!

PDL · 08-24-2007, 01:13 AM

Are you shooting JPEG or RAW?

I do not use JPEG on my K10D, but when I shoot RAW it does automatically rotate the image. When the image is first displayed on the LCD screen it is not rotated, but when I go to reiview, they are rotated as expected. Try switching to RAW and see what happens.

Just for reference, my *ist Ds does not have the rotation sensor, so I spend a lot of time rotating images. Also on the Ds, JPEG's do not stay rotated at all, but RAW's do. Go figure.

PDL

Mechan1k · 08-24-2007, 01:16 AM

It does it automatically on my K10D ... must be a setting somewhere in the menu ... might be in the custom settings.

I haven't used RAW yet ... just JPG.

Also when reviewing the pics on the camera ... there's an option on it that I can rotate the image on the camera using the down arrow I think under the OK button.

pschlute · 08-24-2007, 01:28 AM

Check the menu again. I seem to remember there are two settings: one to rotate on playback and one to rotate on download to computer.

Mandi · 08-24-2007, 01:36 AM

Like Simon, I am new to the game and at the moment I am just shooting JPGs while I learn at least some of the bells and whistles. I'll try RAW and report back - it does seem strange, doesn't it?

Yes, Peter, there are two options (like you say, one for playback and one you would THINK would be for download to computer) and I've tried various combinations of "on"s and "off"s to no avail...

Mandi · 08-24-2007, 01:46 AM

Thanks PDL, you are quite right - it rotates as expected in RAW, but not in JPG. So Simon, can you explain how you have achieved it in JPG??? Could you tell me exactly how you have those two menu items configured please?

baw · 08-24-2007, 01:54 AM

All the camera does is set the EXIF rotation tag according to the way your camera was held when shooting.
Your image viewer on the computer has to be "rotation aware" to display the images correctly.
eg. Irfanview is.

Mandi · 08-24-2007, 02:01 AM

Yeeeeessss...? So why is, say, Photoshop or Pentax Photo Laboratory only "rotation aware" for RAW but not for JPG? Can I set anything in the software itself or computer to make them "image aware" for JPGs?

baw · 08-24-2007, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Yeeeeessss...? So why is, say, Photoshop or Pentax Photo Laboratory only "rotation aware" for RAW but not for JPG?

Perhaps ask the software developers?
I use iMatch (and sometimes Irfanview). If you set Irfanview to "Autorotate image according to EXIF info" it does so as expected.

mattdm · 08-24-2007, 04:48 AM

You can use the open source and cross-platform program jhead to rotate jpegs losslessly according to its exif tags.

Exif Jpeg header and thumbnail manipulator program

distudio · 08-24-2007, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by Mandi

Yeeeeessss...? So why is, say, Photoshop or Pentax Photo Laboratory only "rotation aware" for RAW but not for JPG? Can I set anything in the software itself or computer to make them "image aware" for JPGs?

There is a Saving rotation flag info option in Customs settings, by default it's on so rotation should be recorded (P207 of the manual).

You can check by installing PhotoME which will allow you to view the complete EXIF tags for JPG, PEF and DNG files. The tag for a vertical/portrait orientated image should be:

Orientation of image: 90° CW (left/bottom)

Cheers,

baw · 08-24-2007, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by distudio

The tag for a vertical/portrait orientated image should be:
Orientation of image: 90° CW (left/bottom)

Cheers,

That is if you rotate the camera counterclockwise, for clockwise rotaters it will be right/top.

distudio · 08-24-2007, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by baw

That is if you rotate the camera counterclockwise, for clockwise rotaters it will be right/top.

Indeed, being a non-grip user I forget, the other rotation position would put me into a rather contorted pose ;-)

m8o · 08-24-2007, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Mandi

G'day
One of the features that I was quite keen on when I was researching digital cameras was automatic rotation of images because I shoot in "portrait" mode a lot. I understood "automatic rotation" to mean that if I took a picture in "portrait" mode (ie, with the camera held "sideways") that a sensor inside the K10D would detect that I had turned the camera and would download it to my computer in "portrait" mode - thus saving me the chore of turning 70% or more of my images before I can even start work on them. I have set "Saving Rotation Info" to ON and yet all my images transfer in "landscape" mode irrespective. What am I doing wrong?

Re: "What am I doing wrong?"

Nothing.

From my experience, that 'feature' just marks the image in EXIF as 'rotated'. It's up to the viewing program to read that and rotate the image during rendering. It does -NOT- rotate the image pixels' physically when you download it.

When I view the image in Pentax's supplied Photo Browser, the image is rendered as rotated. When I view the image in the built-in Windows XP Image Viewer, or post it to my Fotki account, the image is -not- rotated. reason being because neither Microsoft's viewer program, or the Fotki online service, read and react to the EXIF rotation information.

In the end, until more image rendering programs/services read and react to rotation info, you have to manually rotate your images.

Tom M · 08-24-2007, 06:39 AM

The save rotation data works just fine in .jpg mode. Make sure your camera is set to save rotation data in the menu and use a program like Pentax PhotoLab or Picasa2, etc. Both recognize the rotation data and will display your photos in the correct orientation.

08-24-2007, 12:56 AM	#1
Mandi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 126	K10D image rotation - what am I doing wrong? G'day One of the features that I was quite keen on when I was researching digital cameras was automatic rotation of images because I shoot in "portrait" mode a lot. I understood "automatic rotation" to mean that if I took a picture in "portrait" mode (ie, with the camera held "sideways") that a sensor inside the K10D would detect that I had turned the camera and would download it to my computer in "portrait" mode - thus saving me the chore of turning 70% or more of my images before I can even start work on them. I have set "Saving Rotation Info" to ON and yet all my images transfer in "landscape" mode irrespective. What am I doing wrong? Incidentally I can get it to rotate in playback without a problem, so I know the sensor is sensing correctly. But that's pretty pointless - if you turned the camera to shoot, you can turn it to look at the LCD. Turning my computer monitor is harder!!! Any advice gratefully received...!!

08-24-2007, 01:54 AM	#7
baw Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Neterlands Posts: 189	EXIF Rotation tag.. All the camera does is set the EXIF rotation tag according to the way your camera was held when shooting. Your image viewer on the computer has to be "rotation aware" to display the images correctly. eg. Irfanview is.

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08-24-2007, 01:13 AM	#2
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	Are you shooting JPEG or RAW? I do not use JPEG on my K10D, but when I shoot RAW it does automatically rotate the image. When the image is first displayed on the LCD screen it is not rotated, but when I go to reiview, they are rotated as expected. Try switching to RAW and see what happens. Just for reference, my *ist Ds does not have the rotation sensor, so I spend a lot of time rotating images. Also on the Ds, JPEG's do not stay rotated at all, but RAW's do. Go figure. PDL

08-24-2007, 01:16 AM	#3
Mechan1k Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,891	It does it automatically on my K10D ... must be a setting somewhere in the menu ... might be in the custom settings. I haven't used RAW yet ... just JPG. Also when reviewing the pics on the camera ... there's an option on it that I can rotate the image on the camera using the down arrow I think under the OK button.

08-24-2007, 01:28 AM	#4
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,198	Check the menu again. I seem to remember there are two settings: one to rotate on playback and one to rotate on download to computer.

08-24-2007, 01:36 AM	#5
Mandi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 126 Original Poster	Like Simon, I am new to the game and at the moment I am just shooting JPGs while I learn at least some of the bells and whistles. I'll try RAW and report back - it does seem strange, doesn't it? Yes, Peter, there are two options (like you say, one for playback and one you would THINK would be for download to computer) and I've tried various combinations of "on"s and "off"s to no avail...

08-24-2007, 01:46 AM	#6
Mandi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 126 Original Poster	Thanks PDL, you are quite right - it rotates as expected in RAW, but not in JPG. So Simon, can you explain how you have achieved it in JPG??? Could you tell me exactly how you have those two menu items configured please?

08-24-2007, 02:01 AM	#8
Mandi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 126 Original Poster	Yeeeeessss...? So why is, say, Photoshop or Pentax Photo Laboratory only "rotation aware" for RAW but not for JPG? Can I set anything in the software itself or computer to make them "image aware" for JPGs?

08-24-2007, 02:52 AM	#9
baw Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Neterlands Posts: 189	Quote: Yeeeeessss...? So why is, say, Photoshop or Pentax Photo Laboratory only "rotation aware" for RAW but not for JPG? Perhaps ask the software developers? I use iMatch (and sometimes Irfanview). If you set Irfanview to "Autorotate image according to EXIF info" it does so as expected.

08-24-2007, 04:48 AM	#10
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	You can use the open source and cross-platform program jhead to rotate jpegs losslessly according to its exif tags. Exif Jpeg header and thumbnail manipulator program

08-24-2007, 06:02 AM	#11
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by Mandi Yeeeeessss...? So why is, say, Photoshop or Pentax Photo Laboratory only "rotation aware" for RAW but not for JPG? Can I set anything in the software itself or computer to make them "image aware" for JPGs? There is a Saving rotation flag info option in Customs settings, by default it's on so rotation should be recorded (P207 of the manual). You can check by installing PhotoME which will allow you to view the complete EXIF tags for JPG, PEF and DNG files. The tag for a vertical/portrait orientated image should be: Orientation of image: 90° CW (left/bottom) Cheers,

08-24-2007, 06:25 AM	#12
baw Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Neterlands Posts: 189	Originally posted by distudio The tag for a vertical/portrait orientated image should be: Orientation of image: 90° CW (left/bottom) Cheers, That is if you rotate the camera counterclockwise, for clockwise rotaters it will be right/top.

08-24-2007, 06:31 AM	#13
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by baw That is if you rotate the camera counterclockwise, for clockwise rotaters it will be right/top. Indeed, being a non-grip user I forget, the other rotation position would put me into a rather contorted pose ;-)

08-24-2007, 06:37 AM	#14
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by Mandi G'day One of the features that I was quite keen on when I was researching digital cameras was automatic rotation of images because I shoot in "portrait" mode a lot. I understood "automatic rotation" to mean that if I took a picture in "portrait" mode (ie, with the camera held "sideways") that a sensor inside the K10D would detect that I had turned the camera and would download it to my computer in "portrait" mode - thus saving me the chore of turning 70% or more of my images before I can even start work on them. I have set "Saving Rotation Info" to ON and yet all my images transfer in "landscape" mode irrespective. What am I doing wrong? Re: "What am I doing wrong?" Nothing. From my experience, that 'feature' just marks the image in EXIF as 'rotated'. It's up to the viewing program to read that and rotate the image during rendering. It does -NOT- rotate the image pixels' physically when you download it. When I view the image in Pentax's supplied Photo Browser, the image is rendered as rotated. When I view the image in the built-in Windows XP Image Viewer, or post it to my Fotki account, the image is -not- rotated. reason being because neither Microsoft's viewer program, or the Fotki online service, read and react to the EXIF rotation information. In the end, until more image rendering programs/services read and react to rotation info, you have to manually rotate your images.

08-24-2007, 06:39 AM	#15
Tom M Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lincoln Park, NJ Photos: Gallery Posts: 780	The save rotation data works just fine in .jpg mode. Make sure your camera is set to save rotation data in the menu and use a program like Pentax PhotoLab or Picasa2, etc. Both recognize the rotation data and will display your photos in the correct orientation.