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08-15-2010, 08:55 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
The sharpness on my K-7 and K200d for Jpeg's is at +1 I believe (not near either right now).
My K-7 has a default sharpness of -1 in the "natural" preset. I'm not sure if that one is actually used by default though. Also, the adjustments might not be implemented the same way (who says a -1 on a K-7 is the same as a -1 on a K200D?)

08-15-2010, 09:48 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobD Quote
Thanks for that !, makes me appreciate my k200D all the more as over here a K-7 is a whole lot more $$.
Yes, I will admit that the K-7 won't buy you much more IQ, but in my opinion it's a much nicer camera to carry and use. The shutter sound (quietness) alone is worth a lot to me, it's like someone put a silencer on it. The Mag-Alloy body, 2 control wheels, dedicated ISO button, etc etc are nice too. Also, the viewfinder is noticeably larger (and 100% coverage) so it makes framing/composition/manual focusing easier.

Anyways, I DO think that the K-7 is worth the extra money, but only for the body and control changes, not the IQ. I still use my K200D as a backup/second camera and it still does a great job. I love that they are both weather sealed so I can take them places that others dare not take their DSLRs.

The only thing that I might regret about my K-7 purchase is that I bought it right when it was released, so I paid the premium MSRP...I wouldn't have minded waiting 6 months and saving $500 or so.
08-15-2010, 10:12 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by arpaagent Quote
Yes, I will admit that the K-7 won't buy you much more IQ, but in my opinion it's a much nicer camera to carry and use. The shutter sound (quietness) alone is worth a lot to me, it's like someone put a silencer on it. The Mag-Alloy body, 2 control wheels, dedicated ISO button, etc etc are nice too. Also, the viewfinder is noticeably larger (and 100% coverage) so it makes framing/composition/manual focusing easier.

Anyways, I DO think that the K-7 is worth the extra money, but only for the body and control changes, not the IQ. I still use my K200D as a backup/second camera and it still does a great job. I love that they are both weather sealed so I can take them places that others dare not take their DSLRs.

The only thing that I might regret about my K-7 purchase is that I bought it right when it was released, so I paid the premium MSRP...I wouldn't have minded waiting 6 months and saving $500 or so.
I agree nearly 100% with the above. The K-7 is just so much better in every other way, that its completely worth the price I paid (in $700's due to the J&R deal and selling the packaged kit lens).

Especially though, the viewfinder. That alone is nearly worth the cost to me.... than comes all of the external buttons, than..... well you get the idea

I firmly believe the K200d was one of Pentax's best camera's ever. For the price when I bought mine, it was unmatched. Still today there is no such thing as a weather sealed entry level DSLR. The K200d will always have a group of diehard fans here Im sure (and I will continue to be part of them). The K-7 Is more than a worthy upgrade however. For the price, it to is unmatched.

If I hadn't got my battery grip yesterday for the K-7, I'd be taking the K200d out today So it goes.
08-15-2010, 06:11 PM   #49
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I tend to use camera defaults for testing (factory settings for Image Tone, sharpness, contrast, etc). That way if someone doesn't like the settings, they can blame Pentax, not me.

I agree with the suggestion of using the sharpest lens aperture for a test like this. Minor focus issues become significant at f/2.0.

How were the photos processed to end up at the same size? It's important to compare at the same size and also to use similar processing to get there.

08-16-2010, 06:45 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I tend to use camera defaults for testing (factory settings for Image Tone, sharpness, contrast, etc). That way if someone doesn't like the settings, they can blame Pentax, not me.

I agree with the suggestion of using the sharpest lens aperture for a test like this. Minor focus issues become significant at f/2.0.

How were the photos processed to end up at the same size? It's important to compare at the same size and also to use similar processing to get there.
Using a lens with a max aperture of 1.2 is a good idea, though, since it can be focused with precision. I just wouldn't take the exposure at such a large aperture.
08-20-2010, 02:02 PM   #51
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Concerned about buying the K7 due to sharpness issue here noted. If the camera doesn't competently utilize the image, then what's the point of the more expensive and sharper lenses?
Thanks,
Brad.
08-20-2010, 06:04 PM   #52
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The point of an AA filter is to reduce moire, and that's the tradeoff presumably being made here. Not an issue here, although it would be on other shots.

But I wouldn't read too much into this. One person finding a slight difference in one image compared to one other camera doesn't mean the K-7 isn't capable of sharp images or taking advantage of sharp lenses. Or could dozens of professional reviewers somehow all be wrong?

Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 08-20-2010 at 10:18 PM.
08-20-2010, 06:43 PM   #53
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CCD sensors have always been better at sharpness than CMOS which is why the 645d went with a CCD sensor. I have the kx and I have an ist DS. I can swear I get sharper images our of my ist DS...infact my ist DS beats the Nikons I use at work, its ia pretty awesome little camera. There are a few well known fashion photographers that shoot with a Nikon D2x and won't upgrade to CMOS because of the sensor. CCD uses more power and energy and runs hotter but delivers better images. CMOS uses less power and has a better iso range. I am also on the look out for a k10d, or a km just for this reason as I do some fashion model stuff and would really like the sharp details the CCD sensor can produce.

08-20-2010, 10:20 PM   #54
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Is it possible that your perception that your DS gives sharper images than your K-x is simply a matter of you comparing at "100%", which is to say, blowing up the K-x images twice as large? If so, that's not a matter of CCD versus CMOS at all, but simply the inevitable result of comparing images at different sizes.
08-20-2010, 10:57 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by tigerzen Quote
CCD sensors have always been better at sharpness than CMOS which is why the 645d went with a CCD sensor...
That's rubbish. That has got to do with production issues rather than any supposed superiority of CCD over CMOS. If CCD is supposedly better, them why do CMOS sensors deliver better color rendition? CCD sensors on Pentax cameras are biased too heavily towards reds.
08-20-2010, 11:05 PM   #56
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Sorry for not responding or updating with new tests. I completed them along with a 50mm shootout (FA 50mm F/1.4 vs. M 50mm F/1.7 vs. K 50mm F/1.2) but haven't had time to go through and set them up for posting.
08-20-2010, 11:38 PM   #57
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I reckon it is very hard to pinpoint the exact cause why the K7 photo is less sharp than the K200D photo, there are many factors at paly here. Both are very good camera, each for different market and trade-off.
08-21-2010, 05:23 AM   #58
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This is some interesting information from Canon on differences in sharpness with regard to the higher pixel cameras.

Interested in your comments, please.

Canon Professional Network - Pixels and Image Size

Brad.
08-24-2010, 05:39 AM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
That's rubbish. That has got to do with production issues rather than any supposed superiority of CCD over CMOS. If CCD is supposedly better, them why do CMOS sensors deliver better color rendition? CCD sensors on Pentax cameras are biased too heavily towards reds.
Kind of true but than the CMOS sensors are leaning towards magenta too much IMO. You can see it on some of the pics from OP here.
And I can see it a lot when comparing the K10 to K-x. I just prefer the colour output of K10D's CCD over any sensor (whether CCD or CMOS) in any other Pentax body....
08-26-2010, 07:56 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
Kind of true but than the CMOS sensors are leaning towards magenta too much IMO. You can see it on some of the pics from OP here.
And I can see it a lot when comparing the K10 to K-x. I just prefer the colour output of K10D's CCD over any sensor (whether CCD or CMOS) in any other Pentax body....
Me too. The k10d ccd's color is somewhat more vibrant and contrasty. I didn't know it until I've tried the k7. It keeps me going back to the k10d.
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