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08-25-2007, 07:40 PM   #1
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K100D and Outside Action Pics

I am a thrilled novice owner of a K100D, and have been studying the book, playing with different options...

My kids are involved in Tae Kwon Doe competitions as well as soccer. I have previously resorted to using the "moving object" auto mode, sometimes with great results, sometimes with things being a bit blurry. With more understanding of shutter speeds, I have started trying the "Tv" mode, and have found for ocean shots, flying birds, and soccer games, 1/500 shutter speed seems to give me crisp pictures.

Looking back at the Tae Kwon Doe pics that were blurry, the auto moving object shutter speed was 1/50 - pretty slow...

Today, I switched it back to auto mode at a day soccer game, just to see what it would suggest, and it was wanting to use 1/2000.

Any comments as to why the camera would want to use such a fast (or slow) shutter speed?

Note: These pics were taken with a SIGMA 1:4-5.6 700-300mm lens...

08-25-2007, 08:12 PM   #2
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Weren't the TKD competitions indoors? Although our eyes don't often take much notice of it, there is a pretty large difference in the amount of light available between a nice sunny day outdoors and indoor environments.

What ISO were you using at the TKD competition? Boosting sensitivity is one way to help keep those shutter speeds up.

On the photo that used 1/50 shutter speed....what was the aperture (f-stop) that the camera selected for you?
08-25-2007, 09:34 PM   #3
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I can't see any pics.

I am right into martial arts and take my camera to tournaments when I am competing or if friends are. But I don't really have a fast enough lens in the length I need. Have just bought a M series 100 F2.8 which should help somewhat.

I ahve also found 1600 ISO cleaned up gives fairly decent results - the toughest thing I find is setting whitebalance as tournaments are usually held in gyms with strong bright over head lights with the light reflecting off a highly polished timber floor. I never use flash out of respect to the competitors.
08-25-2007, 11:05 PM   #4
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Falcons - If there isn't a good WB reference present somewhere (many martial arts uniforms are white...), look into getting some sort of WB reference card. Some can be quite cheap.

Worst case, even a piece of cardstock from your local office supply store can be much better than no reference at all.

To the original poster - My guess is the same as other posters. While it is not always obvious to the eyes, there is typically much less light available indoors.

Most likely you'll need to get a faster lens (this will cost a LOT of money, unless you get a shorter lens. For example, fast 50mm primes are very cheap if you get manual ones, and the FA 50/1.4 isn't that expensive. Fast 300mm lenses will cost you an arm and a leg), and/or bump up the ISO setting significantly. This will cause your images to become quite noisy. As an option for cleanup, noise from high-ISO operation becomes far less noticeable if an image is converted to greyscale.

08-25-2007, 11:41 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by krs Quote
Today, I switched it back to auto mode at a day soccer game, just to see what it would suggest, and it was wanting to use 1/2000.

Any comments as to why the camera would want to use such a fast (or slow) shutter speed?
Because it was too bright that day. In order to avoid overexposure and whites being blown out, camera can do one of the following: decrease ISO, use faster shutter speed, use smaller f-stop. Since K100D has smallest ISO 200 it can't lower that anymore. It can either increase the shutter (light has less time to affect the sensor) or decrease f-stop (less light is available to the sensor). What f-stop was it using? Sometimes you may want set it manually in Av mode, when camera doesn't get it right. Were those images overexposed or did they looked okay?
08-26-2007, 05:56 AM   #6
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Buy and read Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure He does a good job of explaining all about shutter speeds/f-stops/ISO. And then you will "understand exposure" Good luck!
08-26-2007, 04:42 PM   #7
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Looks like the F-Stop was generally F8.0
08-26-2007, 04:46 PM   #8
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Generally the pictures look pretty good (to me at least)!

The following picture was shot in Tv mode, with a shutter speed of 1/500, and a resulting aperture of F8.0



This picture was shot in Tv mode with a shutter speed of 1/1500, and a resulting aperture of F4.5.



Both pictures were shot with a Sigma 300mm lens at ISO 200.

Comments would be appreciated!


Last edited by krs; 08-26-2007 at 05:36 PM.
08-26-2007, 04:48 PM   #9
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On the topic of TKD, yes, they were shot in a gym, so I think you are right in that it is simply not as bright, and therefore, the camera in "fast moving object mode" used a slower shutter speed.

I did notice issues with the color, and I probably need to explore setting the white balance in the future (have read about it, but have not tried it yet)!!
08-26-2007, 10:04 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by krs Quote
On the topic of TKD, yes, they were shot in a gym, so I think you are right in that it is simply not as bright, and therefore, the camera in "fast moving object mode" used a slower shutter speed.

I did notice issues with the color, and I probably need to explore setting the white balance in the future (have read about it, but have not tried it yet)!!
yep, set the white balance to whatever the indoor lighting is. shooting indoor events like TKD is gonna be tricky. You have to figure out a way to up the shutter speed, either by increasing the light or using the largest aperture setting on your lens.

Problem is once you open up the lens you lose ability to have the entire photo in focus. It's all trade offs.
08-27-2007, 02:52 AM   #11
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The good news is that the K100D is as good as anything else at 3 times the price in low light for indoor sports. Wide aperture, high ISO and perhaps noise reduction software like Noiseware would help get good results. I just use a handkerchief to get a good manual WB, set the camera to manual focus and aim the camera through one layer of material and set the WB, it works good in low light.

I would use RAW myself, but that's something else to learn about to get the best out of it, there's no gain over JPG if you just convert without the appropriate tweaks, so there's a learning curve.
08-27-2007, 04:34 AM   #12
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I have "played" a bit with raw mode and the pentax editing software, as well as just using jpeg and and old version of photoshop that I have... I do not claim expertise in using either!
08-27-2007, 05:26 AM   #13
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What kind of comments do you want? How much do you understand about exposure and how ISO/shutter speed/f-stop relate to each other?

Very briefly, given the same lighting conditions, 1/500 is a longer time to expose the sensor (or "film"), so the camera had to stop the aperture down to f/8. 1/1500, the camera selected a wider aperture to let more light in during the much more brief exposure time. If you wanted to go to 1/2000s, you would have had to bump up the ISO, unless you had a faster lens.

This is Photography 101 stuff, so either look into the Peterson book, or google around for a good tutorial on the web.

Good luck!

QuoteOriginally posted by krs Quote
Generally the pictures look pretty good (to me at least)!

The following picture was shot in Tv mode, with a shutter speed of 1/500, and a resulting aperture of F8.0



This picture was shot in Tv mode with a shutter speed of 1/1500, and a resulting aperture of F4.5.



Both pictures were shot with a Sigma 300mm lens at ISO 200.

Comments would be appreciated!
08-27-2007, 07:34 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by krs Quote
Generally the pictures look pretty good (to me at least)!

Both pictures were shot with a Sigma 300mm lens at ISO 200.

Comments would be appreciated!
My comment is more about composition than exposure:

Your shots are of a mostly empty field with some small images of the players. And all you see are their backs. You need to get closer to the action, so you can see the player's faces and expressions. So you need your longest lens and you need to position yourself so that you are looking at the players' faces rather than their backs, and you can feel the action. I am usually positioned next to the goal, sitting, with the camera on a monopod. Use a wide aperture to blur the background as much as possible, and to get your shutter speed up to at least 1/500 (1/750 to 1/1500 is ideal).

Here's an example (shot with my old *ist DL: Sigma APO 100-300mm f/4 EX DG lens at 220mm, 1/1200 at f/4.5, ISO 800):

[photo deleted]

Last edited by GaryML; 09-03-2007 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Photo deleted
08-27-2007, 02:18 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryML Quote
My comment is more about composition than exposure
Since we're speaking of composition here... That pic would not make a good example. I can understand why tall guy is missing the head - since the action and focus is downstairs with the ball, but then again half of the ball and boys' feet are cut off for some reason.

The point about filling the viewport with meaningful action is valid though.
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