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08-22-2010, 09:59 AM   #46
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I set my girlfriend up with my K2000 and an FA 28-200mm lens. Taught her how to use Manual Exposure mode and she shoots in RAW+.

Then, later on she got her first P&S camera.

Guess which one she prefers to use?

The K2000.

08-22-2010, 07:18 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
As some posters have mentioned, the OP says his pictures were taken in raw, but he has not told us how he is processing them.

The raw file without any adjustments is flat, lacking vibrancy, and unsharp. Raw files need to be processed.
I tend to disagree with the highlighted statement as it is not completely accurate. some of my images taken especially with certain legacy lenses are not flat, unsharp or lacking vibrancy. honestly, I didn't even have to adjust anything that would influence those parameters, except exposure adjustments with a few images that were not exposed properly or does not suit the setting.

I would state however that lenses does have an effect on those parameters mentioned. I don't think that the camera has something to do with that except when the image settings were adjusted or faulty focus on the part of the camera.
08-22-2010, 08:05 PM   #48
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with concerns to vibrancy, sharpness and pop, both P&S and dSLR are capable of that although I would give the dSLR the edge due to image control which could bolster the image much more than what a P&S could offer. the P&S however has the edge on ease of use.
08-22-2010, 08:15 PM   #49
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anyway, as far as the question of vibrancy, sharpness and pop of a dslr is concerned, here is a sample of a RAW file with no adjustments done aside from converting it to jpeg. I'm sure the K10D is well capable of this as well since some people say that the K10D's rendering is better than the K-7. although I must say that I used an FA135 lens in this one.



08-22-2010, 08:18 PM   #50
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I've had my K10D for 3 years. It's a great camera....I have screwed up by adjusting the custom features so much and so out of whack, that the pix were lousy.

You may need to press 'reset'....to get the K10D back to it's original factory settings.

The K10D is really designed for the advanced amateur/ professional photographer and as such with all it's custom settings is set up for the very advanced photographer. Although I have much experience as a photographer, I have to admit...what the K10D can do...is sometimes more then my skills can master...LOL.

The Nikon 6000 is probably much like my Panasonic Lumix...really designed for the amateur photographer and hard to screw up.
08-22-2010, 08:28 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I've had my K10D for 3 years. It's a great camera....I have screwed up by adjusting the custom features so much and so out of whack, that the pix were lousy.

You may need to press 'reset'....to get the K10D back to it's original factory settings.

The K10D is really designed for the advanced amateur/ professional photographer and as such with all it's custom settings is set up for the very advanced photographer. Although I have much experience as a photographer, I have to admit...what the K10D can do...is sometimes more then my skills can master...LOL.

The Nikon 6000 is probably much like my Panasonic Lumix...really designed for the amateur photographer and hard to screw up.
There are two resets on the K10d. One in the Record menu and the other for the custom menus. If you reset, be careful to use the right one, or both, depending on how you've set your camera.

Even now, nearly 4 years after it was released (Oct/Nov 2006), the K10d is still a nice camera.

08-23-2010, 09:30 AM   #52
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The K10d was known or even touted in eary reviews as a camera that produced "neutral" images. As many have said, you can juice any image up you want with ACR, PS, or just about any other image software.

After editing a large number of Canon images, I've just recently decided that I've been a little conservative in my ACR vibrance and my sharpening settings. It does not take much of either to add some zip.

By the way, I was looking over my older P&S photos from early in the decade taken with a Coolpix 880. The 3 megapixel sensor in that camera was larger than most of the 10mp sensors in current P&S cameras, and I still think it did a nicer job than most of the P&S cameras out there. Very little NR on any image. It also had the option for uncompressed TIFFs, which you don't see as often now. I've seen worse taken with a DSLR.
08-23-2010, 09:56 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote

By the way, I was looking over my older P&S photos from early in the decade taken with a Coolpix 880. The 3 megapixel sensor in that camera was larger than most of the 10mp sensors in current P&S cameras, and I still think it did a nicer job than most of the P&S cameras out there. Very little NR on any image. It also had the option for uncompressed TIFFs, which you don't see as often now. I've seen worse taken with a DSLR.
That Coolpix 880 was a very nice camera for its time and is still quite capable of putting a photograph together. I just recommend folks use a little caution regarding modern digi-cam point-and-shooters. The Coolpix S4000 I gave my wife a few months ago is easily capable of putting to shame the similarly priced Coolpix 4600 I bought in 2006 in terms of AF and exposure. Under the right circumstances, a modern point-and-shooter can out perform most DSLRs. It's a quite narrow group of circumstances (ample available light, lengthy DOF, simple focal length compositions) but it's still possible and rather surprising when it happens.

08-23-2010, 07:31 PM   #54
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Pentax quality

I think the mistake Pentax made was to outsource the most important part of the camera. The idiot they outsourced it to didn't even put the part in the camera, but put it behind the camera. cheers.
08-24-2010, 08:02 AM   #55
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Subtle :-)
08-25-2010, 01:22 AM   #56
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I like the RAW option for exceptional tuning of pictures (just for hobby or to get optimal results for photo's to be enlarged and framed), but would expect a DSLR to also have decent out of the Camera JPG results. If they can do it on a P&S then a DSLR on auto mode should at least be capable to get to the same level.

At Panasonic the LX3 got several firmware updates to optimize this. But it of course continues to stay customer taste dependent. Why don't companies make it easier to select that, only at initial usage of camera?
08-25-2010, 09:48 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
I like the RAW option for exceptional tuning of pictures (just for hobby or to get optimal results for photo's to be enlarged and framed), but would expect a DSLR to also have decent out of the Camera JPG results. If they can do it on a P&S then a DSLR on auto mode should at least be capable to get to the same level.
The thing is, it really isn't a better/worse issue - it's one of taste. A P&S camera is optimized to produce pictures that are likely to appeal to the typical P&S customer - that is to say, an image a typical DSLR customer would call oversharpened, oversaturated, and probably either a bit overexposed, overly contrasty, or both. So of course a typical P&S customer would see the P&S image as "winning" the comparison - and a typical DSLR comparison would see it precisely the opposite. There are of course plenty of exceptions - P&S customers that have tastes more in line with those of typical DSLR customers, and vice versa. Shooting RAW and then adjusting in PP would be *one* way for them to get the results they want. But another would simply be to override the default settings in the camera. A DSLR allows you to crank up the sharpening, saturation, exposure, and contrast if you like. So even without shooting RAW, you can get the sort of images preferred by the typical P&S customer, more or less.

But the one area you can't easily make equal through camera settings or PP is DOF. A P&S image will have much greater DOF, which means *more* of the image is in focus, creating the illusion of greater sharpness overall. For some images, that will be an improvement. For others - lie ones where you wanted the background out of focus so the subject stood out more - it will be a significant disadvantage for the P&S camera.

QuoteQuote:
At Panasonic the LX3 got several firmware updates to optimize this. But it of course continues to stay customer taste dependent. Why don't companies make it easier to select that, only at initial usage of camera?
I would assume that someone who doesn't know enough to look at the manual and figure out how to override settings at a time of his choosing is probably unlikely to know what settings he would like even if the camera asked him on initial startup.
08-25-2010, 03:32 PM   #58
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K10D vs P&S Suggestions

If I may i will suggest a few possibilities that may echo others opinion or not. First even when shooting Raw the image tone (Bright/natural,contrast saturation etc....) affects the jpeg preview you see on the screen of your K10D As Raw has no settings applied the output into your computer will look quite bland. Actually your wife's Nikon would look the same if you could see the pre processed raw before it converts to JPEG in camera. Anyhow...What helps me is first setting the image tone to natural and setting the saturation and contrast to 0 or -1 so I am not seeing more blacks or colour that is in the raw. This is flawed of course as the K10d cant really calibrate its screen as i think the K20 and K7 can. So perhaps its a moot point..anyway the K10d's screen always look punchier as it is a jpeg not RAW you are seeing.

Import. Use a good program for Raw import. I use Apple Aperture but Lightroom is good too as well as capture one and others...heck the Pentax software is pretty good too (free)
I will usually tweak the Camera Raw setting such as boost and pre sharpening. I then do simple auto exposure or just move the slider until it looks right. Then of course I do some Auto levels to get started and tweak from there. If you don't understand levels or curves it is worth it to read up on it. I was the same as you as My Canon G7 seemed at first to have way more detail and sharpness but now I realize it was user error.

First a P&S camera has a very large depth of field so a large amount of your scene will appear in focus.
Second The SLR is capable of a more shallow dept of field so some objects will appear less sharp than others depending on your Aperture,focal length and focus distance...Confused? I was until at least a year later but it has been fun learning.

I have returned to some of my first K10D shots 2 years later and am astonished how much better I can now make them as I perfect my post processing skills.

last dont fear the P&S you can still use them its OK. I use my G7 as it is more portable to get ideas about where i next want to shoot. You may return with the K10D and perhaps bring a tripod and spend some time exploring the scene and finding the right settings.

You may also may want to start out by finding out how good you can get the K10D to look with in Camera JPEG just experiment. As others have said you may need to learn how to use the exposure compensation control to dial in + exposure as the K10D can underexpose in a bright scene.

There are a-lot of controls o its easy to get confused. i have tried several competitors SLR's from Canon to Nikon to Sony and they all have similar hang ups so its just a mater of patience

Lets just say after almost 3 years of use i am very satisfied with my trusty K10 and learning more all of the time

Cheers
Roger
08-25-2010, 08:00 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Camera settings mean nothing when it comes to the RAW files.
That is a little broad a statement. Settings that mean something in RAW:

Exposure length
Aperture
ISO
Focus
Shake
Flash
White Balance (this is saved in the RAW file and applied later
And several more

I use RAW most of the time and if I forget to check those settings I get a lousy photo.
08-25-2010, 09:44 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeoTaylor Quote
That is a little broad a statement. Settings that mean something in RAW:

Exposure length
Aperture
ISO
Focus
Shake
Flash
White Balance (this is saved in the RAW file and applied later
And several more

I use RAW most of the time and if I forget to check those settings I get a lousy photo.
I believe that statement was in reference to the JPG settings that the camera uses to produce the JPGs with. Sharpness, saturation, digital filters, etc.

Shake, Focus, flash, aperture, ISO, shutter speed, cannot be changed, even in ACR. You can Compensate for them by sharpening, adjusting overall exposure, fill light, etc. You will not increase or decrease DOF in ACR for instance.

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