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08-25-2010, 02:51 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
No disrespect taken at all. On person's level playing field is another person's quagmire.

Defaults may in fact be optimised for "the majority" who will never change a setting, but then they are not the ones who will be nit-picking between 100% crops on a forum like this! In other words, I would not expect any serious reviewer to stick with the defaults if they can take some time to find "better" settings (using whatever measure of "better" suits them).

However, I leave the minutiae of RAW converter comparison to others. Frankly, I can't see it being worth my time. In the same way that there may be small differences between ACR and something else, there will be between Noise Ninja and something else, or even -- as I might be concluding -- between the K-x and something else. But these differences are not great enough to have a decisive impact on a picture, above and beyond the usual factors: subject, light, composition, optical parameters, etc.
Yes, it is still down to each person's expectations and tolerance level - for example I do shoot mostly JPG with close to default settings on my K-x and am quite happy with the results - I personally don't even want to go to the trouble of using RAW/DNG - from my own tests I have been able to show that for my real problematical usage - even though I will quite freely acknowledge RAW has to be more flexible - but the results have shown me that I prefer the resultant images from the JPG.

Please see: Post #122 in Modern LED Stage Lighting & photography problems

This merely leads me to my very next bit/breath that you left out -
QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Also another way of thinking - is that default settings are what the manufacturers think is the best image they can offer (realizing their cameras are going to be thoroughly tested with those images) - of course we are unlikely to accept that - and will think we can do better


08-25-2010, 05:50 PM   #62
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I think it most likely that the defaults are set to what will look best in reviews, not necessarily what will look best with knowledgeable PP by a photographer who can afford to take time and take care.

I am not saying that there isn't a place for a quick and dirty image, but with the Pentax ability to cook JPGs in camera I have never needed anything other than RAW.
08-25-2010, 06:03 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT:
Also another way of thinking - is that default settings are what the manufacturers think is the best image they can offer (realizing their cameras are going to be thoroughly tested with those images)- of course we are unlikely to accept that - and will think we can do better
I don't believe that's what the defaults represent. The defaults are the settings the Marketing Dept think will please the target market. Punchy pictures sell, same as with TV sets, but if you know what you're doing, you calibrate.

The rumour at one time was that North American cameras were defaulted to Bright and cameras sold in Japan were defaulted to Natural image tone.
08-25-2010, 06:44 PM   #64
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Thank you, Robin, for posting these. It is an interesting test and certainly shows that the K20 is a pretty decent camera (which hopefully we have already known). There is always room for improvement. The thing I wish is that cameras kept dynamic range better at high iso. It feels like it is possible to get a fairly noise free photo, but the photos themselves lack life.

08-25-2010, 11:42 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
I think it most likely that the defaults are set to what will look best in reviews, not necessarily what will look best with knowledgeable PP by a photographer who can afford to take time and take care.
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I don't believe that's what the defaults represent. The defaults are the settings the Marketing Dept think will please the target market. Punchy pictures sell, same as with TV sets, but if you know what you're doing, you calibrate.
I do believe people will read what they want to believe -
notice this was also in my quote regarding the optimization of default settings in JPG .... FWIW -
QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
- of course we are unlikely to accept that - and will think we can do better .
08-26-2010, 05:00 AM   #66
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Rparmer, those seond attempts were pretty good, thanks for taking the time to do the test and to share with us. I've done several tests and they do get tiresome and extremely sensitive to errors, and painful to upload and share. Very much appreciate your efforts.

I like RAW image processing, even if it is done with default settings in a raw converter (eventhough, not the gold standard).
08-26-2010, 05:09 AM   #67
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Thanks Rondec, pcarfan and others. I was thinking of doing a third set but cannot find the energy for it right now. Even if the results were slightly different with changed settings I don't think my conclusions would change at all.
08-26-2010, 05:11 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Thank you, Robin, for posting these. It is an interesting test and certainly shows that the K20 is a pretty decent camera (which hopefully we have already known). There is always room for improvement.......
I'll add my thanks. I find testing, even for myself, extremely difficult, and I am harder on myself than anyone else. I appreciate anyone having the courage to post tests here and share the efforts.

This and John's work indicate that the K20d is capable of some nice results at high ISO. Sometimes, I have to put these high-ISO results in perspective. As a film photographer for decades, I could count on my fingers the times I ventured north of ISO 400.

08-26-2010, 02:19 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
As a film photographer for decades, I could count on my fingers the times I ventured north of ISO 400.
Indeed, we should not forget how lucky we are!

P.S. I still have some 1600 in the garage.
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