FF for weddings?

rawr · 08-26-2010, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by lurchlarson

...If all those Rebel shooters can get good shots at weddings (I know someone who has done a beautiful job shooting weddings with her rebel) the Pentax sure as heck can do it--be it the k7 or k5.

Indeed. Good results are also likely to be influenced by experience, the lighting, the lenses etc as much as whether the photog is using FF or crop. Remember film? Not a lot of high ISO there.

Still on the subject of DR, it's also not the case that as soon as a crop body hits high ISO all of it's DR drops away completely. As the chart below from dxomark.com illustrates, comparing the DR of a D90 and a D700 over the ISO range, DR tends to taper quite slowly and smoothly away for both, and the difference between the crop and FF DR trajectories isn't amazing even at high-ISO. At least with decent crop bodies like the D90 or K-x.

Last edited by rawr; 08-26-2010 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Updated the chart, added K-x

**montman** · 08-26-2010, 11:34 AM

I think your best bet is to wait and see what Pentax brings to the table next month. Unfortunately I could not wait and had to get a k-x for ISO reasons. The wedding I have this week has poor lighting and I was contemplating renting a 5D mark II or buying a k-x so I went with the k-x. For weddings, I have been shooting with a K20d and my partner with a K200D. We have now replaced the K200D with the k-x and just have the 200 as a backup camera. Three months ago, I had a wedding that was moved indoors because of a storm and cloud cover kept good light from entering the windows, fortunately I was able to get my hands on a k-x, had to shoot the whole ceremony at 3200 ISO, the images were acceptable but not great. This is someone’s wedding , and if you are getting paid you owe it to them to be prepared and you should be pricing at a point where if you have to you can rent gear for $400 and still make money on the wedding. All this to say, if you are really thinking of getting into wedding photography wait and see what Pentax comes out with and if it can’t shoot better ISO then the K-x seriously consider jumping ship. The Pentax system is great for portraits and k-7 and k-x can handle most weddings, but there will be those times you will want higher ISO capabilities. For me, I will wait and see what Pentax does in the next couple months.
Some wedding shots if interested.
Captivated Studio | Wedding Photography
Wedding on the bottom of blog, all ceremony shots on k-x at ISO3200

lurchlarson · 08-26-2010, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by montman

...All this to say, if you are really thinking of getting into wedding photography wait and see what Pentax comes out with and if it can’t shoot better ISO then the K-x seriously consider jumping ship. The Pentax system is great for portraits and k-7 and k-x can handle most weddings, but there will be those times you will want higher ISO capabilities. For me, I will wait and see what Pentax does in the next couple months.
Some wedding shots if interested.
Captivated Studio | Wedding Photography
Wedding on the bottom of blog, all ceremony shots on k-x at ISO3200

That's what I what I was thinking. We'll see. I'm hoping that its fairly clean to 6400 ISO at least.

Thanks for the link. Good reference. Good shots by the way.

Wesbo · 08-26-2010, 07:51 PM

I think any of the last generation bodies has plenty of image quality for a wedding shoot (asbestos underwear on)... Most of the last generation bodies would be fine as well.

Where the big two (especially Nikon) really blow away the rest is flash system performance and support. The Nikon flash system is so absurdly better than the competition that I wouldn't consider anything else if I expected to be a 'flash-heavy' wedding photog. As in, lighting halls with SB900s on stands in the corners and one on the body for bounce/fill. Not everybody shoots weddings like that, and that's OK, but CLS really gives an advantage to that style of wedding shooter.

And with Nikon and Canon you get a real support organization. I don't know how deep you are into wedding photography, but if you get to where you are booking two, three, or four shoots in a weekend, your gear can't go down for any reason. And if it does, you need to be able to get replacement gear and/or service. And if you need long, fast glass for a particular shoot (long church sanctuary perhaps, with no flash allowed) you can probably rent a Nikon/Canon 300 f2.8 locally. Not so much with other systems.

It just seems to me that these items are more important than DOF, high-iso performance, etc. My $0.02

Wheatfield · 08-27-2010, 06:35 AM

Check on the rental and support situation locally before using that as a criteria.
In my neck of the woods, Nikon and Canon don't have better support than Pentax, and I have two B&M dealers close by.

hal_a · 08-27-2010, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I'm not going to comment on whether or not FF has better DR, high ISO performance or any of the other technical stuff that a Google search can provide.
Frankly, I think worrying about this stuff is pissing in the wind anyway.
The advantage of full frame is a full frame viewfinder. And this is a very big deal.

well said!

lurchlarson · 08-27-2010, 08:30 AM

Out here the fastest way to get Pentax gear is online

Bob photo 4 life · 08-27-2010, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by lurchlarson

Out here the fastest way to get Pentax gear is online

Yeah, I don't think there is a store that sells cameras within 100 miles where I live.

lurchlarson · 08-27-2010, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Bob photo 4 life

Yeah, I don't think there is a store that sells cameras within 100 miles where I live.

You must be on the dry side of the state. I know that the Shutterbug store in the Woodburn Outlet had a Pentax 16-45 and at one point a K7.

While one one hand Pentax's products are more aggressively priced because of their small market, it would be nice if they had the universal availability of their Canikon counterparts.

Big G · 08-27-2010, 03:40 PM

Good, fast lenses. That is all.

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08-26-2010, 08:08 AM	#16
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by lurchlarson ...If all those Rebel shooters can get good shots at weddings (I know someone who has done a beautiful job shooting weddings with her rebel) the Pentax sure as heck can do it--be it the k7 or k5. Indeed. Good results are also likely to be influenced by experience, the lighting, the lenses etc as much as whether the photog is using FF or crop. Remember film? Not a lot of high ISO there. Still on the subject of DR, it's also not the case that as soon as a crop body hits high ISO all of it's DR drops away completely. As the chart below from dxomark.com illustrates, comparing the DR of a D90 and a D700 over the ISO range, DR tends to taper quite slowly and smoothly away for both, and the difference between the crop and FF DR trajectories isn't amazing even at high-ISO. At least with decent crop bodies like the D90 or K-x. Last edited by rawr; 08-26-2010 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Updated the chart, added K-x

08-26-2010, 11:34 AM	#17
montman Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kansas City Photos: Gallery Posts: 576	I think your best bet is to wait and see what Pentax brings to the table next month. Unfortunately I could not wait and had to get a k-x for ISO reasons. The wedding I have this week has poor lighting and I was contemplating renting a 5D mark II or buying a k-x so I went with the k-x. For weddings, I have been shooting with a K20d and my partner with a K200D. We have now replaced the K200D with the k-x and just have the 200 as a backup camera. Three months ago, I had a wedding that was moved indoors because of a storm and cloud cover kept good light from entering the windows, fortunately I was able to get my hands on a k-x, had to shoot the whole ceremony at 3200 ISO, the images were acceptable but not great. This is someone’s wedding , and if you are getting paid you owe it to them to be prepared and you should be pricing at a point where if you have to you can rent gear for $400 and still make money on the wedding. All this to say, if you are really thinking of getting into wedding photography wait and see what Pentax comes out with and if it can’t shoot better ISO then the K-x seriously consider jumping ship. The Pentax system is great for portraits and k-7 and k-x can handle most weddings, but there will be those times you will want higher ISO capabilities. For me, I will wait and see what Pentax does in the next couple months. Some wedding shots if interested. Captivated Studio \| Wedding Photography Wedding on the bottom of blog, all ceremony shots on k-x at ISO3200

08-26-2010, 06:28 PM	#18
lurchlarson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 681 Original Poster	Originally posted by montman ...All this to say, if you are really thinking of getting into wedding photography wait and see what Pentax comes out with and if it can’t shoot better ISO then the K-x seriously consider jumping ship. The Pentax system is great for portraits and k-7 and k-x can handle most weddings, but there will be those times you will want higher ISO capabilities. For me, I will wait and see what Pentax does in the next couple months. Some wedding shots if interested. Captivated Studio \| Wedding Photography Wedding on the bottom of blog, all ceremony shots on k-x at ISO3200 That's what I what I was thinking. We'll see. I'm hoping that its fairly clean to 6400 ISO at least. Thanks for the link. Good reference. Good shots by the way.

08-26-2010, 07:51 PM	#19
Wesbo Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Charlotte, North Carolina Posts: 27	I think any of the last generation bodies has plenty of image quality for a wedding shoot (asbestos underwear on)... Most of the last generation bodies would be fine as well. Where the big two (especially Nikon) really blow away the rest is flash system performance and support. The Nikon flash system is so absurdly better than the competition that I wouldn't consider anything else if I expected to be a 'flash-heavy' wedding photog. As in, lighting halls with SB900s on stands in the corners and one on the body for bounce/fill. Not everybody shoots weddings like that, and that's OK, but CLS really gives an advantage to that style of wedding shooter. And with Nikon and Canon you get a real support organization. I don't know how deep you are into wedding photography, but if you get to where you are booking two, three, or four shoots in a weekend, your gear can't go down for any reason. And if it does, you need to be able to get replacement gear and/or service. And if you need long, fast glass for a particular shoot (long church sanctuary perhaps, with no flash allowed) you can probably rent a Nikon/Canon 300 f2.8 locally. Not so much with other systems. It just seems to me that these items are more important than DOF, high-iso performance, etc. My $0.02

08-27-2010, 06:35 AM	#20
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Check on the rental and support situation locally before using that as a criteria. In my neck of the woods, Nikon and Canon don't have better support than Pentax, and I have two B&M dealers close by.

08-27-2010, 07:27 AM	#21
hal_a Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 60	Originally posted by Wheatfield I'm not going to comment on whether or not FF has better DR, high ISO performance or any of the other technical stuff that a Google search can provide. Frankly, I think worrying about this stuff is pissing in the wind anyway. The advantage of full frame is a full frame viewfinder. And this is a very big deal. well said!

08-27-2010, 08:30 AM	#22
lurchlarson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 681 Original Poster	Out here the fastest way to get Pentax gear is online

08-27-2010, 01:16 PM	#23
Bob photo 4 life Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 81	Originally posted by lurchlarson Out here the fastest way to get Pentax gear is online Yeah, I don't think there is a store that sells cameras within 100 miles where I live.

08-27-2010, 01:50 PM	#24
lurchlarson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 681 Original Poster	Originally posted by Bob photo 4 life Yeah, I don't think there is a store that sells cameras within 100 miles where I live. You must be on the dry side of the state. I know that the Shutterbug store in the Woodburn Outlet had a Pentax 16-45 and at one point a K7. While one one hand Pentax's products are more aggressively priced because of their small market, it would be nice if they had the universal availability of their Canikon counterparts.

08-27-2010, 03:40 PM	#25
Big G Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 581	Good, fast lenses. That is all.