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09-01-2010, 05:58 PM   #16
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It would appear that most of the people who want more from the K-x (and possibly K-r) are not its target market. When coming from a P&S (not the advanced segment) environment, I don't see the majority of people wanting or even understanding how the mentioned better functionality would be more beneficial. It makes more sense for Pentax to have 3 different tiers of camera imo.

09-01-2010, 06:03 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ShiftR Quote
It would appear that most of the people who want more from the K-x (and possibly K-r) are not its target market. When coming from a P&S (not the advanced segment) environment, I don't see the majority of people wanting or even understanding how the mentioned better functionality would be more beneficial. It makes more sense for Pentax to have 3 different tiers of camera imo.
Of course it makes more sense for Pentax to have 3 tiers of cameras. There will always be people who want more than an entry level but don't need all the high end features. But when did Pentax ever do anything that made sense?
09-01-2010, 06:07 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ShiftR Quote
It would appear that most of the people who want more from the K-x (and possibly K-r) are not its target market. When coming from a P&S (not the advanced segment) environment, I don't see the majority of people wanting or even understanding how the mentioned better functionality would be more beneficial..
But that is precisely what I took into account in my list immediately before your post. I predict the new entry-level replacement will have more point'n'shoot features, already available in the Pentax line. Plus incremental improvements.
09-01-2010, 07:37 PM   #19
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But what is realistic for the entry level camera of Pentax (independent on 2 or 3 line strategy)?
  • The beter viewfinder (larger / 100%) will require bigger mirror, so larger & more expensive to manufactor body --> NOK
  • Water resitant seems to be a Pro specification, if not too expensive to make then it would be a strategic move towards other brands, but the risk of harming K-7 sales is probably more significant --> probably NOK
  • Two dials would be nice even for newbies to ensure they don't out grow their entry level camera, which will hurt sales --> probably NOK
  • Better LCD is needed to keep up with competition in same entry level segment --> OK
  • Better video (1080p & up to 100 fps at lower resolutions) functionality (including connector for stereo microphone) is also needed to keep up with competion in entry level segment --> OK
  • Gradual (but not by-passing pro market) faster FPS, increased Mega pixels, better metering, auto focus and High ISO performance--> OK (but we shouldn't expect miracles to happen at the entry level)
  • Point and Shoot gadgets at improve LiveView mode --> OK!!! (although I don't know how much effort Pentax can put into this, but the also make P&S's)
  • Time elapse / interval functionality (probably firmware only) --> Why NOT?
  • AF assist lamp --> Why NOT?
  • Focus dot overlay in viewfinder is probably relatively expensive to make and I don't see it being such a real big thing.
I don't know too much about the improved video & still frame SR (digital implementation). Sounds like more heavy processor is needed, so probably first in Pro-line only. Is it also related to K-7 Level indicator and/or SR effectiveness that might be better than that of K-x (who can confirm this or proof the other way around)?

Finally about slightly smaller and lighter form factor. That might be possible with leaving out the OVF and/or replacing it by an EVF. I doubt the K-x still has a lot of fat that can be cut off easily.

09-01-2010, 09:41 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Of course it makes more sense for Pentax to have 3 tiers of cameras. There will always be people who want more than an entry level but don't need all the high end features.
Well, sure - if you've got infinite resources to have as many models available as you like. But when you're a smaller company like Pentax, reality does intrude on this. And of course, Pentax already *does* have three tiers - don't forget the 645D. Not to mention all sorts of P&S cameras.
09-01-2010, 11:43 PM   #21
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Almost nothing. The K-x is more than enough of a good camera for what it's proposed to do: entry-level DSLR.

2 good improvements, in my opinion:

- WR. Even if it's plastic outside, at least seal the buttons from the interior, that's good enough, no need to go full metal body. Reinforces the "sturdiness" of the brand across all product offerings. It's a big win against the others in my opinion.

- Stereo connector for mic, just because I know in the market this camera is, people like to use it as a cheap camcorder too and having external mic would make it a lot more useful.

That's all. No higher-res LCD, no more dials, buttons, viewfinder with whistles, telepathic AF that figures where you wanna focus 5 seconds in advance... No need for any of this crap. Keep it cheap for the people that wanna shoot photos and use legendary lenses instead of bitching about gear.

Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 09-01-2010 at 11:54 PM.
09-02-2010, 12:22 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Almost nothing. The K-x is more than enough of a good camera for what it's proposed to do: entry-level DSLR.

2 good improvements, in my opinion:

- WR. Even if it's plastic outside, at least seal the buttons from the interior, that's good enough, no need to go full metal body. Reinforces the "sturdiness" of the brand across all product offerings. It's a big win against the others in my opinion.

- Stereo connector for mic, just because I know in the market this camera is, people like to use it as a cheap camcorder too and having external mic would make it a lot more useful.

That's all. No higher-res LCD, no more dials, buttons, viewfinder with whistles, telepathic AF that figures where you wanna focus 5 seconds in advance... No need for any of this crap. Keep it cheap for the people that wanna shoot photos and use legendary lenses instead of bitching about gear.
+5 (totally agree)
09-02-2010, 04:13 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
I think asking for those specs is asking for a 3rd model to sit between the low and high end models - and Pentax has never done that (with the oft noted exception being the K200d, which is long in the tooth at this point and likely not to be replaced).
Never say never.

Do I see a tendency to ask for semi-pro features from this "K-R" (supposedly, the lower-end from the two APS-C cameras Pentax will launch at Photokina)? Sorry, but in this case Pentax has to think how to differentiate it's cameras - and what sells, what's not.
Afaik the K200D wasn't a success (apparently the weather sealing wasn't that strong of a selling point); the K-x clearly was. This should give us a big hint about how the next higher-than-K-x camera should look like.

09-02-2010, 04:40 AM   #24
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@hcarvalhoalves
WR is unrealistic in the entry-level model, but not impossible. Pentax may decide on an "all weather" line from top to bottom.

A stereo mic input is also likely a distinguishing feature reserved for the higher-end DSLR. I mean, the K-x doesn't even have a remote socket!

It is precisely the "bells and whistles" that help sell cameras to those moving up from p'n's. No-one wants to actually give up a feature they have come to depend on. And no company wants their feature list to be shorter than the competitions... marketers hate that! This must be balanced by the fact that no-one would ever buy the more expensive body if it wasn't distinctly better than the entry-level. So, yes, more bells for the K-x replacement so it looks good in ads. And higher specs for the K-7 replacement so it looks good in reviews.
09-02-2010, 05:15 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
@hcarvalhoalves
WR is unrealistic in the entry-level model, but not impossible. Pentax may decide on an "all weather" line from top to bottom.

A stereo mic input is also likely a distinguishing feature reserved for the higher-end DSLR. I mean, the K-x doesn't even have a remote socket!

It is precisely the "bells and whistles" that help sell cameras to those moving up from p'n's. No-one wants to actually give up a feature they have come to depend on. And no company wants their feature list to be shorter than the competitions... marketers hate that! This must be balanced by the fact that no-one would ever buy the more expensive body if it wasn't distinctly better than the entry-level. So, yes, more bells for the K-x replacement so it looks good in ads. And higher specs for the K-7 replacement so it looks good in reviews.
Is stereo mic input for the K-x a potential bell or not?
- Likely we indeed see mainly P&S bells and marginal performance improvement (preferably covered by numbers) and not by-passing the K-7
09-02-2010, 05:16 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
@hcarvalhoalves
WR is unrealistic in the entry-level model, but not impossible. Pentax may decide on an "all weather" line from top to bottom.

A stereo mic input is also likely a distinguishing feature reserved for the higher-end DSLR. I mean, the K-x doesn't even have a remote socket!

It is precisely the "bells and whistles" that help sell cameras to those moving up from p'n's. No-one wants to actually give up a feature they have come to depend on. And no company wants their feature list to be shorter than the competitions... marketers hate that! This must be balanced by the fact that no-one would ever buy the more expensive body if it wasn't distinctly better than the entry-level. So, yes, more bells for the K-x replacement so it looks good in ads. And higher specs for the K-7 replacement so it looks good in reviews.
I think a lot of people would use the mic input, because I suspect more of the consumers to whom the K-x appeals use the video features, and they have more expectations on quality than the average P&S user. In-camera mics are awful. This also seems like a fairly cheap addition. (The remote socket, too)

I would totally agree on omitting WR, though. That is a high-end feature that significantly adds to the weight and complexity of the physical design. I only have to recall the fact that a CLA on my LX cost almost 3 times the price of that work on the MX to get some idea of how much more complex a WR camera can be. WR is truly a feature I expect only with the upgrade to a more rugged body.
09-02-2010, 08:43 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
@hcarvalhoalves
WR is unrealistic in the entry-level model, but not impossible. Pentax may decide on an "all weather" line from top to bottom.
Or they could keep the K-x around as the entry level model (or release a very minor update). Basically, what I'd want (and what I described earlier) is a K200D replacement, and that model had a similar market placement - it was entry level in the sense of Pentax not offering anything beneath it, but it was clearly a step or two up compared to what entry level usually entails.
09-02-2010, 09:50 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
@hcarvalhoalves
WR is unrealistic in the entry-level model, but not impossible. Pentax may decide on an "all weather" line from top to bottom.
I believe they should go for it. Pentax has this fame of being sturdy, the 35mm MX is maybe the most successful body and works like a tank still nowadays, besides being the cheapest model (with the KX being top of the line). This new K-x is amongst the "cheapest" ones - even then, it's better built than most entry-levels.

Of course they can't make a body like a K-7 and sell at entry-level price points. But if they managed to at least make it "weather tolerant", by making the buttons sealed and using epoxi/rubber in the body cover, it would be one truly amazing little camera to carry everywhere. Best option for hobbists, travelers and hikers, hands down.
09-02-2010, 10:20 AM   #29
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This may sound weird, but I'd like the K-7 successor to have an override for the maximum sync speed. It can be put in the menu just like the option to use the aperture ring for older lenses. That way its not a default behavior.

There are some times I want to speed up my shutter and not worry about the lighter power flash in HSS mode. Also, I get that there'll be a black bar at the bottom of the image because the shutter blocked it, but if youre aware of it and shoot wide enough where you can crop it out its not a big deal. It will definitely have the MPs for it.
This can at least be put in their newer "semi-pro" model. It always annoyed me that the camera doesn't even send a current to the flash over 1/180 unless you turn on HSS. In a way, its making a decision for me. I don't want that.
09-02-2010, 10:48 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I think a lot of people would use the mic input, because I suspect more of the consumers to whom the K-x appeals use the video features, and they have more expectations on quality than the average P&S user.
Anyone doing serious work needs to get the mic off the camera entirely. This involves using a separate mic (with boom) and a digital recorder, as I have described on my blog. Capturing Sound For Video and related posts like Which Portable Digital Audio Recorder? will help those who want more professional results.

Having a mic input on the camera is a half-way measure. But I would certainly like to see this -- it's better than nothing.
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