Selectable program line

Trub · 08-30-2007, 07:15 AM

I was looking for the crop size of the K10D sensor, and came across this in the dpreview.com review.

Selectable program line
Although not new to them, this feature is unique to Pentax digital SLRs. Rather than having to stick with a 'Normal' program line you can choose to have one which is optimized for faster shutter speeds (Hi Speed), smaller apertures (Depth) or the optimum lens sharpness (MTF).

What exactly does this change?

Last edited by Trub; 08-30-2007 at 07:25 AM.

mattdm · 08-30-2007, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Trub

I was looking for the crop size of the K10D sensor, and came across this in the dpreview.com review.

Selectable program line
Although not new to them, this feature is unique to Pentax digital SLRs. Rather than having to stick with a 'Normal' program line you can choose to have one which is optimized for faster shutter speeds (Hi Speed), smaller apertures (Depth) or the optimum lens sharpness (MTF).

What exactly does this do?

You mean other than what the description there says?

Everything in photography is a compromise. "P" program modes try to guess at what the best compromise is for you automatically. The K10D lets you tell the processor what your priority is in that compromise from the above three choices.

mattdm · 08-30-2007, 07:28 AM

PS: 1.5x crop.

Trub · 08-30-2007, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

You mean other than what the description there says?

Everything in photography is a compromise. "P" program modes try to guess at what the best compromise is for you automatically. The K10D lets you tell the processor what your priority is in that compromise from the above three choices.

So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions.

GaryML · 08-30-2007, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Trub

So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions.

It is the PROGRAM line: it sets the shutter and aperture in PROGRAM mode only. YOU select the aperture, shutter speed, and/or both in the other modes.

AVANT · 08-30-2007, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Trub

So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions.

As Gary said. It applies to "P" mode and times when you push the "green" button.

You can have the camera prioritize it's programming for faster shutter speeds, smaller apertures, or the lens' optimal aperture (MTF). (Stated in your original quote)

So while the camera is still automatic, it will bias itself for different types of photography.

For example:
- If your goal was a freeze action or use in low light, you would set the P mode to prefer "Hi Speed".
- If you are doing landscape in P mode and want as much in focus as possible, use "Depth of Field".
- For situations with plenty of light where a specific subject is important, use "MTF".

It won't do anything magical. The camera just chooses a shutter speed and aperture combination to give you the type of picture results you're desiring. Does that make more sense?

mattdm · 08-30-2007, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Trub

So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions.

No, it only affects the full Program mode. There are many ways to combine shutter speed, aperture, and ISO to get an equivalent exposure -- but each different way will have its own results. High shutter speed freezes motion better. Small aperture has better depth of field. And low ISO has less noise.

How you have the program mode set tells the camera if you want to prioritize high shutter speed, good depth of field, or what it knows to be the sharpest aperture of the lens you've got mounted.

So, in "depth" mode, there's no magic -- it just tries to give you as small an aperture as it reasonably can. (I'm not sure how it defines "reasonable", though, particularly in relation to Auto-ISO. You'd have to experiment.)

Trub · 08-31-2007, 07:42 AM

That makes perfect sense! Thanks for the info.

m8o · 08-31-2007, 07:57 AM

If I can jump in here, can someone elaborate on MFT? [MTF?] Does the camera have a table in memory that tells it what the optimal apertures are for a recognized lens? ...it doesn't know the lens brand of 3rd part lenses tho so that may not likely be it.

edit: I think I found the answer, but please feel free to add...
I found a post that On page 145 of the manual it sates that " MTF" prority program that prorotizes the best apature settings of the attached lens and is most effective when combined with DA, D FA FA or FA J lenses

now I have to figure out which of my [non Pentax] lenses have that and which don't I guess... [Pentax lenses starting with FA do]

fast50 · 09-03-2007, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by m8o

If I can jump in here, can someone elaborate on MFT? [MTF?] Does the camera have a table in memory that tells it what the optimal apertures are for a recognized lens? ...it doesn't know the lens brand of 3rd part lenses tho so that may not likely be it.

edit: I think I found the answer, but please feel free to add...
I found a post that On page 145 of the manual it sates that " MTF" prority program that prorotizes the best apature settings of the attached lens and is most effective when combined with DA, D FA FA or FA J lenses

now I have to figure out which of my [non Pentax] lenses have that and which don't I guess... [Pentax lenses starting with FA do]

Correct - and I checked with Sigma when I had an MZ-S and they didn't support this feature (not surprised, it's pretty much unique to Pentax). I wouldn't expect it to work on anything but a Pentax FA or newer... So when Pentax say it's "most effective" on those lenses, I think they mean it only works on those lenses

08-30-2007, 07:15 AM	#1
Trub Guest	Selectable program line I was looking for the crop size of the K10D sensor, and came across this in the dpreview.com review. Selectable program line Although not new to them, this feature is unique to Pentax digital SLRs. Rather than having to stick with a 'Normal' program line you can choose to have one which is optimized for faster shutter speeds (Hi Speed), smaller apertures (Depth) or the optimum lens sharpness (MTF). What exactly does this change? Last edited by Trub; 08-30-2007 at 07:25 AM.

08-31-2007, 07:57 AM	#9
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	If I can jump in here, can someone elaborate on MFT? [MTF?] Does the camera have a table in memory that tells it what the optimal apertures are for a recognized lens? ...it doesn't know the lens brand of 3rd part lenses tho so that may not likely be it. edit: I think I found the answer, but please feel free to add... I found a post that On page 145 of the manual it sates that " MTF" prority program that prorotizes the best apature settings of the attached lens and is most effective when combined with DA, D FA FA or FA J lenses now I have to figure out which of my [non Pentax] lenses have that and which don't I guess... [Pentax lenses starting with FA do] Last edited by m8o; 08-31-2007 at 08:06 AM.

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08-30-2007, 07:28 AM	#2
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by Trub I was looking for the crop size of the K10D sensor, and came across this in the dpreview.com review. Selectable program line Although not new to them, this feature is unique to Pentax digital SLRs. Rather than having to stick with a 'Normal' program line you can choose to have one which is optimized for faster shutter speeds (Hi Speed), smaller apertures (Depth) or the optimum lens sharpness (MTF). What exactly does this do? You mean other than what the description there says? Everything in photography is a compromise. "P" program modes try to guess at what the best compromise is for you automatically. The K10D lets you tell the processor what your priority is in that compromise from the above three choices.

08-30-2007, 07:37 AM	#4
Trub Guest	Originally posted by mattdm You mean other than what the description there says? Everything in photography is a compromise. "P" program modes try to guess at what the best compromise is for you automatically. The K10D lets you tell the processor what your priority is in that compromise from the above three choices. So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions.

08-30-2007, 07:49 AM	#5
GaryML Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 441	Originally posted by Trub So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions. It is the PROGRAM line: it sets the shutter and aperture in PROGRAM mode only. YOU select the aperture, shutter speed, and/or both in the other modes.

08-30-2007, 12:40 PM	#6
AVANT Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California Posts: 426	Originally posted by Trub So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions. As Gary said. It applies to "P" mode and times when you push the "green" button. You can have the camera prioritize it's programming for faster shutter speeds, smaller apertures, or the lens' optimal aperture (MTF). (Stated in your original quote) So while the camera is still automatic, it will bias itself for different types of photography. For example: - If your goal was a freeze action or use in low light, you would set the P mode to prefer "Hi Speed". - If you are doing landscape in P mode and want as much in focus as possible, use "Depth of Field". - For situations with plenty of light where a specific subject is important, use "MTF". It won't do anything magical. The camera just chooses a shutter speed and aperture combination to give you the type of picture results you're desiring. Does that make more sense?

08-30-2007, 12:46 PM	#7
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by Trub So if I use Program, Tv, Sv, Av, TAv modes and change to "Depth" the camera is going to apply some magic and give it better depth? What if I use the manual mode, will the camera ignore this setting? Sorry, I don't understand your answer completely so that is why I'm asking all the questions. No, it only affects the full Program mode. There are many ways to combine shutter speed, aperture, and ISO to get an equivalent exposure -- but each different way will have its own results. High shutter speed freezes motion better. Small aperture has better depth of field. And low ISO has less noise. How you have the program mode set tells the camera if you want to prioritize high shutter speed, good depth of field, or what it knows to be the sharpest aperture of the lens you've got mounted. So, in "depth" mode, there's no magic -- it just tries to give you as small an aperture as it reasonably can. (I'm not sure how it defines "reasonable", though, particularly in relation to Auto-ISO. You'd have to experiment.)

08-31-2007, 07:42 AM	#8
Trub Guest	That makes perfect sense! Thanks for the info.

09-03-2007, 02:20 AM	#10
fast50 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 86	Originally posted by m8o If I can jump in here, can someone elaborate on MFT? [MTF?] Does the camera have a table in memory that tells it what the optimal apertures are for a recognized lens? ...it doesn't know the lens brand of 3rd part lenses tho so that may not likely be it. edit: I think I found the answer, but please feel free to add... I found a post that On page 145 of the manual it sates that " MTF" prority program that prorotizes the best apature settings of the attached lens and is most effective when combined with DA, D FA FA or FA J lenses now I have to figure out which of my [non Pentax] lenses have that and which don't I guess... [Pentax lenses starting with FA do] Correct - and I checked with Sigma when I had an MZ-S and they didn't support this feature (not surprised, it's pretty much unique to Pentax). I wouldn't expect it to work on anything but a Pentax FA or newer... So when Pentax say it's "most effective" on those lenses, I think they mean it only works on those lenses