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09-10-2010, 08:00 AM   #61
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I'm still using my Pentax istDL that I bought years ago and its still giving me good results. So I'm not sure if I'm on the same level as some of you that have used higher end equipment.

My problem is upgrade path. Even though I can produce some good shots I know the limitations of the old entry level istDL. I've learned a lot from it and its time for me to upgrade. I don't see how K-x is any better than T2i when both are priced in the same range from what I'm seeing. The T2i even goes beyond the K-x at the same range. Anyway it probably doesn't matter since I'm looking to upgrade beyond the entry levels now, looking forward to k-5. K7 looked really good too. Ultimately its just a camera, just a tool or a paintbrush. If it doesn't fit your need find something else, I don't understand this brand loyalty or fanboyism.

09-10-2010, 08:35 AM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rashedul Quote
I don't understand this brand loyalty or fanboyism.
In our current society, the brands you buy have become an extension of yourself. Therefore, we tend to identify with a brand and that becomes part of who we are. It also helps us to feel as if we are part of a larger community.

i.e. "I (We) shoot Pentax" "I (We) drive Subarus" "I (We) will never use a Mac"...etc.

Conversely, people who use the "other" brands are also equally marked by us (generally negatively).

i.e. "He's a Canikon shooter" "He drives Fords" "He's a Mac fanboy"

When a person leaves a brand that they strongly identify with, they are in some sense leaving their "Tribe" or community of people and that is difficult for many.

As far as the Pentax fanboyism goes, it's because they make the best cameras I can afford.
09-10-2010, 08:45 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
In our current society, the brands you buy have become an extension of yourself. Therefore, we tend to identify with a brand and that becomes part of who we are. It also helps us to feel as if we are part of a larger community.

i.e. "I (We) shoot Pentax" "I (We) drive Subarus" "I (We) will never use a Mac"...etc.

Conversely, people who use the "other" brands are also equally marked by us (generally negatively).

i.e. "He's a Canikon shooter" "He drives Fords" "He's a Mac fanboy"

When a person leaves a brand that they strongly identify with, they are in some sense leaving their "Tribe" or community of people and that is difficult for many.

As far as the Pentax fanboyism goes, it's because they make the best cameras I can afford.
+1. Excellent points. Brands are totems that tell the world who we are without having to actually interact with us. It's stereotyping and the thing that ad agencies do.
09-10-2010, 08:45 AM   #64
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To be honest, Kr is the nicest camera in the current entry level and damn good too. If i will be satisfied with the reviews of the daL35 i will buy one and i hope pentax will make more cheap primes in the future.

If i will start to make some money with my camera next year, maybe i will buy k5 also.

09-10-2010, 08:53 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
What is fantasy is expecting people to buy something solely like a religion.
I don't expect you to buy it or not buy it. I'm just pointing out that many folks are crying before they've been hurt. THAT is pure fantasy.
09-10-2010, 08:58 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
In our current society, the brands you buy have become an extension of yourself. Therefore, we tend to identify with a brand and that becomes part of who we are. It also helps us to feel as if we are part of a larger community.

i.e. "I (We) shoot Pentax" "I (We) drive Subarus" "I (We) will never use a Mac"...etc.

Conversely, people who use the "other" brands are also equally marked by us (generally negatively).

i.e. "He's a Canikon shooter" "He drives Fords" "He's a Mac fanboy"

When a person leaves a brand that they strongly identify with, they are in some sense leaving their "Tribe" or community of people and that is difficult for many.

As far as the Pentax fanboyism goes, it's because they make the best cameras I can afford.
Agreed with everything you mentioned including the last part. That is how far my fanboyism goes as well.
09-10-2010, 09:28 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Not really. One group is complaining about products which have never been on the market! Therefore, all their grievances are purely products of their mind. They've never used the product...never seen the product...don't know anybody else who has seen or used the product...never even read an article about the product. The other group is complaining about something that is happening in the here and now...not in some imagined problem down the road. One is reality based...the other is fantasy based. HUGE difference!
If your going to quote me, quote the whole thing. You left out my crucial point...WE ARE CRITISIZING THE CONCEPT. The concept of a lens that slow in the same price category as the Nikon 35mm F/1.8, Canon 35mm F/2, etc is what I am critisizing. For all we know, it could be so sharp its not even funny straight from F/2.4.... and if it is I will probably buy it!

Personally, I think its ridiculous that I can't voice my oppinion about that on an oppinion based FORUM without getting browbeaten for it.
09-10-2010, 09:31 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
If your going to quote me, quote the whole thing. You left out my crucial point...WE ARE CRITISIZING THE CONCEPT. The concept of a lens that slow in the same price category as the Nikon 35mm F/1.8, Canon 35mm F/2, etc is what I am critisizing. For all we know, it could be so sharp its not even funny straight from F/2.4.... and if it is I will probably buy it!

Personally, I think its ridiculous that I can't voice my oppinion about that on an oppinion based FORUM without getting browbeaten for it.
It's called "Don't whine before you're hurt."

09-10-2010, 09:34 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
It's called "Don't whine before you're hurt."
that will be applicable when I "whine"....

last time I checked, voicing an opinion was not considered whining just because it disagrees with yours.
09-10-2010, 09:47 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
that will be applicable when I "whine"....

last time I checked, voicing an opinion was not considered whining just because it disagrees with yours.
What opinion of mine do you think you're disagreeing with? My opinion about Pentax's latest products? I have no opinion on those....haven't seen them, haven't used them...don't know anybody who has used them or seen them. How could I have a serious opinion?
09-10-2010, 09:56 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Not really. (in regards to complaining about complaining.) One group is complaining about products which have never been on the market! Therefore, all their grievances are purely products of their mind. They've never used the product...never seen the product...don't know anybody else who has seen or used the product...never even read an article about the product. The other group is complaining about something that is happening in the here and now...not in some imagined problem down the road. One is reality based...the other is fantasy based. HUGE difference!

Your opinion is in bold, is it not?
Your right, you have not stated anything about the lens... thats not what im talking about.

Again, criticizing a concept is not "fantasy based." Its reality, that pentax has a lower spec-ed lens in the same category and price as the competitors, not fantasy. Whether it performs better than the competition is yet to be known.

This is honestly not worth my time.... Like i said, if the lens is super sharp wideopen and I have access to a gold one im buying it.

Last edited by yeatzee; 09-10-2010 at 10:05 AM.
09-10-2010, 10:02 AM   #72
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Until a product is in-hand, nobody knows how well the concept has been realized. Anything prior to that is pure speculation....fantasy.
09-10-2010, 10:15 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
This is honestly not worth my time.... Like i said, if the lens is super sharp wideopen and I have access to a gold one im buying it.
It can be super sharp but it's still not f/1.8 or f/2. For sure we can reserve some judgments before we have more information about the real world performance. The same apply to the K-r. But we can discuss the specs. 12MP will never become 18MP and f/2.4 will never be f/1.8.

And it's not just the lack of wide aperture that annoys me it's also the chosen focal length. 35mm is barely acceptable as a normal lens. It should have been 28-30mm. Samsung came up with the perfect normal, 30mm f/2 and not the least a pancake. That's what Pentax should have done. Instead we are getting a crippled plastic version of the old FA 35mm f/2 without hood, quick shift or even markings.
09-10-2010, 10:26 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by tigerzen Quote
It doesn't seem Pentaxians are ever happy. All they do is complain about what they don't have instead of seeing what they do have. Two awesome announcements today. A new lens and a new camera and all the comments are about how much of a failure this camera and lens are when no one has even tried them yet. For one it shows that Hoya is listening to its customers and giving them what they want. ISO 25000 come on that is awesome. New improved AF, great too, more frames per second, illuminated focus points, and a solved battery problem. WOW...when will we find something else to complain about.
I hope you don't imply that whatever Pentax do I (and others here) are obliged to praise... Because I am not amused at all by this new lens although K-r looks like a decent camera body. However, it is most important that we keep our heads leveled and don't succumb to fanboyism pro or alternatively to trolling against Pentax.
09-10-2010, 10:43 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
It can be super sharp but it's still not f/1.8 or f/2. For sure we can reserve some judgments before we have more information about the real world performance. The same apply to the K-r. But we can discuss the specs. 12MP will never become 18MP and f/2.4 will never be f/1.8.

And it's not just the lack of wide aperture that annoys me it's also the chosen focal length. 35mm is barely acceptable as a normal lens. It should have been 28-30mm. Samsung came up with the perfect normal, 30mm f/2 and not the least a pancake. That's what Pentax should have done. Instead we are getting a crippled plastic version of the old FA 35mm f/2 without hood, quick shift or even markings.
I agree on just about all counts.... I was right behind you on the aperture being to slow.

BUT, Im willing to spend ~$150 to try it out myself and see how I like it. I've been surprised more than once by lenses I bought just because of their cheap price (m 50mm F/1.7)
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