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09-10-2010, 11:02 AM - 1 Like   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rashedul Quote
If it doesn't fit your need find something else, I don't understand this brand loyalty or fanboyism.
while that may be a true sentiment, and I have also echoed it, there is one little detail......

a camera body is an almost insignificant investment for a serious photographer, regardless of amature or professional.,

Lenses are an investment. Just go out and decide to change camera systems and I will pick a shift from pentax to nikon.

You simply can;t put pentax lenses on a nikon body, because the regestry distance on nikon is longer so the lens won't focus to infinity. so If I want something pentax does not offer, and decide I only want to have one system, I would need to replace all 30 lenses I own. no matter how I do it, that will cost much more than a camera body. I can;t see justifying keeping all my pentax stuff AND shooting nikon also, it just makes no sense.

As I said in an earlier post, fortunately unlike canon and nikon, pentax has retained lens compatibility and shown customer loyalty, why shouldn't we show brand loyality back?

09-10-2010, 11:33 AM - 1 Like   #77
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I think what people are really arguing here is whether there is such thing as a definitive rule of a lower spec lens. I also think that there are no hard and fast rules as to what will offer the optimum image quality, and do not think there is anything here to complain about.

People are complaining that this lens does not have an extra stop, making it inferior. However, a good search of the comparison Nikon lens in question will tell you that it is a rather soft lens wide open. So, as far as image quality is concerned, a difference may not exist.

Aperture, number of blades, optical design, etc. etc., all converge on IQ, and it is difficult to differentiate between them. We simply don't know what this lens' pictures will look like.

So you are actually complaining about a hypothetical independent variable of IQ that may not translate out to a better or worse lens, because you (1) do not know what this lens' images look like, and (2) do not know what the light-gathering properties of this lens will be like, since aperture is not the only indicator of light transmittance.

So really, this is a very silly thing to complain about, since you are under the false assumption that wider apertures lead to better lenses. I think this is an understandable mistake because traditionally, lens makers have used aperture to denote higher quality lenses (when, in reality, the f1.2 lenses of the world have a different optical design as well).

In the end, we must realize that you cannot compare these things with just 2 numbers alone, and should not complain about those numbers until we can see the whole package.
09-10-2010, 12:37 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
it's called the Rice High syndrome
I won't give you an infraction for foul language this time; but for future reference that is "he who's name shall not be mentioned".
09-10-2010, 12:43 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
a camera body is an almost insignificant investment for a serious photographer, regardless of amature or professional.,

Lenses are an investment. Just go out and decide to change camera systems and I will pick a shift from pentax to nikon.
Good point. This is what makes the recent trend in QC and design problems with DA* lenses so infuriating to those of us that always considered that the lens is the true investment, that should last "forever."

09-10-2010, 01:17 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Isn't that a shame? ... all that negative feedback.

I also agree with the OP.
I have read through a couple of new threads regarding the official launch of the Kr and found it very disappointing to see so many negative comments.

This is indeed a very impressive "entry-level" camera. Gosh! It even beats my K7 in a few features! What are those people complaining about?

It hasn't been field-tested yet but my impression is that it will perform at least as good as the Kx and perhaps even better (in some departments) than the K7.

Something I did notice about negative posts: they usually originate from the same people.

For those who don't like the specs of this new camera, please just be quiet and wait until real tests/reviews/reports come out.

JP
All that negative feedback on a camera, that to My knowledge, has not even seen the light of day in a Consumer's hands. Typical. I'm still taking pictures with my K10d that was a POS before It was shipped.

09-10-2010, 01:19 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote

a camera body is an almost insignificant investment for a serious photographer, regardless of amature or professional.,

Lenses are an investment. Just go out and decide to change camera systems and I will pick a shift from pentax to nikon.

As I said in an earlier post, fortunately unlike canon and nikon, pentax has retained lens compatibility and shown customer loyalty, why shouldn't we show brand loyality back?
These are significant points raised - we all are free to be loyal to Pentax to whatever degree we please. There is no obligation - but as I have said, without a proportion of loyalty Pentax would not be where it is today. This is not a promotion for brand loyalty. It's a simple message of "if Pentax products suit you well, you may as well support them with future purchases".

QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
I hope you don't imply that whatever Pentax do I (and others here) are obliged to praise... Because I am not amused at all by this new lens although K-r looks like a decent camera body. However, it is most important that we keep our heads leveled and don't succumb to fanboyism pro or alternatively to trolling against Pentax.
As above - we decide for ourselves whether the Pentax brand provides us with what we like, and if so we'd do well to support that. My own opinion on the 35/2.4 has no roots in fanboyism or obliged loyalty. It's perspective. I have little interest in the lens myself - I'm happy with the 31 ltd. But for what it is, I'm confident it will both do the job and satisfy the intended customers.
09-10-2010, 01:26 PM   #82
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Pentaxians are typically happy people. Just look at the community spirit here on the site.

I'm personally very excited for the K-5 and am pre-ordering one as soon as its out!

Adam
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09-10-2010, 01:29 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Pentaxians are typically happy people. Just look at the community spirit here on the site.

I'm personally very excited for the K-5 and am pre-ordering one as soon as its out!
Brand loyalty in action.
Look forward to your first impressions...

09-10-2010, 01:44 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Brand loyalty in action.
Look forward to your first impressions...
+1!
I am very intrigued by the K-5.... I really hope Pentax shuts up the naysayer canikoninites with it
09-10-2010, 02:20 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Regarding MSRP, you guys have to remember that it's less than 84 yen to the dollar now. When the K-x came out, what was it? Like 105 yen to the dollar?
Yes, that explains the difference.
09-10-2010, 02:43 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rashedul Quote
If it doesn't fit your need find something else, I don't understand this brand loyalty or fanboyism.
Remember that cameras are high quality items. It is natural to take pride in owning something of high quality.

When you made that investment you, in all likelihood, took care to find something that closely matched your needs.

The pleasure of using something of high quality that matches your needs translates into trust and therefore brand loyalty.

Fanboyism is just a word we use to indicate our disapproval of someone else's enjoyment of their camera.
Peter
09-10-2010, 02:56 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
What opinion of mine do you think you're disagreeing with? My opinion about Pentax's latest products? I have no opinion on those....haven't seen them, haven't used them...don't know anybody who has used them or seen them. How could I have a serious opinion?
You have made a hell of a lot of posts in this thread not to have an opinion.
09-10-2010, 03:14 PM   #88
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I think the new K-r is great but as much as I love my Pentax cameras and lenses (and I've owned quite a few), I stand by my disappointment with the new DA 35mm f/2.4 notwithstanding the fact that there are no IQ tests done yet. Does Pentax need such a lens... most definitely, there is a pressing need to fill the gap for a cheap kit prime. I take the view that more lenses in the line-up are better for everyone, and I might buy one myself.

However I strongly feel Pentax has made the error of producing a lens that lacks a maximum aperture comparable to budget offerings from Nikon, Sony and Canon. Unfortunately we don't have a choice in the matter as we're all locked-in to the K-mount with our Pentax DSLRs. We may never know why they opted for f/2.4 but what a missed opportunity, so I'm calling it as it is.

I see plenty of frankly laughable remarks defending the new lens, some of which are pretty questionable if not condescending.
Sort of along the lines of:

- oh, it's for newbies, they don't need f/1.8 or f/2... they are better off with f/2.4 cause they can't handle the larger max aperture due to thin DOF and f/2.4 is good enough, and their pictures will be sharper...

- f/1.8 is soft... so you need to stop down for decent sharpness... so you're gonna shoot at f/2.4 or f/2.8 anyway... besides, I don't shoot at such wide apertures... so f/2.4 is good :ugh:

- high ISO takes away the need for a faster lens (bunkum)

Well I sincerely do hope this lens (when we can do the IQ tests) is stellar from f/2.4 onwards but there's no escaping the fact that lenses past and present, prime or zoom are never their sharpest at the maximum aperture. With even a half stop or a full stop difference in max aperture, it will have an effect on the range of apertures to shoot for maximum sharpness. Perhaps we forget the effect of the aperture - DOF, bokeh, viewfinder brightness, ability for the camera to lock focus in AF, ease of manual focusing, subject isolation, etc.

This lens will be a runaway hit... if only because of price, versatile focal length, (and color too) but prepare to see lots of snapshot kind of images coming your way soon.
It's all good when you shoot a Pentax, just don't ask for large maximum aperture budget lenses. In a way this lens is keeping with the recurring theme of most DA lenses... nothing faster than f/2.4...

Last edited by creampuff; 09-10-2010 at 03:27 PM. Reason: spelling
09-10-2010, 03:29 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
We may never know why they opted for f/2.4
I'd really like to learn about why they made this choice. I think only Olympus opted for a relatively slow (f/2.8) normal lens, all the other have f/2 or faster normals: f/1.7 (Panasonic), f/1.8 (Sony, Nikon) and f/2 (Canon, Samsung). What's more it seems that the design is closely related to the FA 35mm f/2. There is maybe a very good reason for choosing f/2.4 but for now it escapes me.
09-10-2010, 03:45 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
- f/1.8 is soft... so you need to stop down for decent sharpness... so you're gonna shoot at f/2.4 or f/2.8 anyway... besides, I don't shoot at such wide apertures... so f/2.4 is good :ugh:
I still think Pentax selected a pre-stopped down approach for amateurs who may not know the most about photography. In the shop, a potential customer might shoot with a 1.8 and an optimized 2.4 wide open. If the 2.4 looks better, I would bet that the 2.4 would sell. Even if *we* know that the reason it looks better is because they dummy-proofed the lens.

I think the approach here is to maximize sales, which is takes precedence over flexibility in the field. People who really want that flexibility would have no problem paying more for one of their nicer lenses.

The lens is marketed to beginners, after all. The lens comes in a myriad of colours! It almost reminds me of the game-boy marketing stunt Nintendo has been pulling all these years (PS, it works). I've also heard more than one criticism of this lens from people using the FA 31 1.8 (or other limiteds)... many times the price and a PREMIUM quality piece of hardware! No beginner would buy the FA 31 1.8... or even be able to really appreciate what a lens like that brings to the table. A well experience photographer might be able to see the 35 2.4 for what it is and say "hey, that's a good deal", but those sales are not going to be as strong as the newbie who is buying his/her first prime.

Just my thoughts, trying to think like a marketer.
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