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09-12-2010, 03:59 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
I presume high ISO photography may be ok for simpply objects like garden grill from previous pictures.
Yup, that shiny black enamel is great for displaying noise.

09-12-2010, 04:04 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
What is ACR?
Sorry, Adobe Camera Raw.
I often take that acronym for granted.
09-12-2010, 04:24 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Sorry, Adobe Camera Raw.
I often take that acronym for granted.
Any chance it works with Elements or PSP? I don't want want to spend big $$ on PS but would consider LR if I had to.
09-12-2010, 04:25 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Any chance it works with Elements or PSP? I don't want want to spend big $$ on PS but would consider LR if I had to.
Light Room uses the same RAW engine(so yes).
As for Denoise, I think the plugin works with PSP, however, you would still be short on the RAW decoding end of things(which is imperical). However if you couple it with LR3 you are golden imo.

Compatibility list:
  • Photoshop
  • Lightroom
  • Aperture
  • iPhoto
  • Paint Shop Pro
  • IrfanView
and a few others

The only thing that stands out here is that if the editor used doesn't support layers then that would most likely limit your ability for advanced noise reduction methods.

09-12-2010, 04:27 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by future_retro Quote
I had just scrubbed my hard drive so I don't have much, this is one that I took real quick before I sold my K7 to demonstrate how this bag worked, ISO 2500 PEF RAW, no post, exported with iPhoto, a zoom in on the dark areas as well, hope it helps

The K7 noise is a major bummer


Why do you have K-x in the previous and current ?

By the way, an excellent sample from the K-7. It shows the typical noise I get at iso 2500.
09-12-2010, 08:17 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Why do you have K-x in the previous and current ?

By the way, an excellent sample from the K-7. It shows the typical noise I get at iso 2500.
The kx was my first dslr, then I sold it to get a K7, then I sold the K7 to downsize back to a Kx so I could spend the difference on video (thank god I'm a craigslist wizard)

I changed the signature to bar confusion

Last edited by future_retro; 09-12-2010 at 08:22 AM.
09-13-2010, 06:17 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
If you shoot raw, use ACR and an advanced NR tool like Denoise, you will retain that detail.
All denoise techniques share same problem. Loss of detail. That is price for denoise. Photoshop filters are pretty poor for denoise.
09-13-2010, 06:20 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I got same or little bit better output. BUt it is soft and once you sharpen picture for print. Output is poor quality. ISO 100-250 is for print (in my case)

09-13-2010, 06:21 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
All denoise techniques share same problem. Loss of detail. That is price for denoise. Photoshop filters are pretty poor for denoise.
While I agree, I think its worth mentioning that recent advancements in NR have significantly reduced and in some cases even eliminated this effect. Of course it doesn't apply in all cases, but it is a significant move for the better.

ie. I think the image in question could be cleaned-up without detail loss. Which could not be done with earlier software such as Noise Ninja etc.
09-13-2010, 06:24 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Any chance it works with Elements or PSP? I don't want want to spend big $$ on PS but would consider LR if I had to.
PSE (photoshop elements) has got light version of ACR (Adobe Camera Raw). Doesn't work in 16b mode, just 8b. PSE is designed for normal users with output for web (JPEG).

LR3 (lightroom) is once again the best RAW convertor. They have improved noise reduction, but still isn't a match for dedicated noise reduction software like Noise Ninja, NEat Image and so on. Only plus is it works directly in RAW and thus work with analugue data instead of digital data in case of any photo manipulation SW like PS. LR is just RAW convertor+catalog/library. LR misses all magic of PS like layers, filters and so on.
09-13-2010, 06:27 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
While I agree, I think its worth mentioning that recent advancements in NR have significantly reduced and in some cases even eliminated this effect. Of course it doesn't apply in all cases, but it is a significant move for the better.

ie. I think the image in question could be cleaned-up without detail loss. Which could not be done with earlier software such as Noise Ninja etc.

could you suggest mighty SW which can do impossible? never seen anything like that so far.
09-13-2010, 06:30 AM   #27
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Here's my K-7 running Ver 1.1, High ISO under poor lightning.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/114041-people-live-music-lastnight.html
09-13-2010, 06:31 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
LR3 (lightroom) is once again the best RAW convertor. They have improved noise reduction, but still isn't a match for dedicated noise reduction software like Noise Ninja, NEat Image and so on.
LR3/ACR6 have proven to have the edge in chroma noise reduction. However the Luma remains rather weak. However... if you couple or combine them with an advanced NR software such as Topaz Denoise, you will end-up with an exceptional chroma and luma noise reduction process.

QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
could you suggest mighty SW which can do impossible? never seen anything like that so far.
PS. Noise Ninja, Noisware, Neat Image are all old wavelet noise reduction technology. They cannot compete with the newer products such as Denoise(not even close).

I think you hit it right on the head with respect to the lack of editing functions such as layers etc. and the advantages of PSP, Gimp of Photoshop.
09-13-2010, 06:45 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
I got same or little bit better output. BUt it is soft and once you sharpen picture for print. Output is poor quality. ISO 100-250 is for print (in my case)
Original:


Topaz Denoise:


Looking past the existing noise artifacts, we can see that no information has been lost in the processing of this sample. A little adjustments(detail and curve) and the image integrity will end-up every bit as high as the original. However, since the image was very weak in contrast to the original file you will not see the full potential of this NR process.

With this in mind, with this method, we have significant data to conclude that the original file could be cleaned without any detail loss or negative effects whatsoever.
On the same note, it has been my experience that this process will carry most files up to ISO1600 and higher with newer sensors. ex: a D700 file can almost be maintained up to ISO6400 while a Kx is closer to ISO4000

Last edited by JohnBee; 09-13-2010 at 08:48 AM.
09-13-2010, 01:49 PM   #30
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I'd mostly worry about pattern and chroma noise. (I personally don't mind noise unless it's chroma or pattern noise.) Chroma noise you can remove with things like the dechroma script for Gimp, or do it manually in Gimp or Photoshop (you blur the color channels and recompose with the luminance channel...or something like that). I don't know how to remove pattern noise without upgrading the camera (to k-x or k-r, etc.)...
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