K10D focus issues

Harald · 09-04-2007, 10:08 AM

Hello

My K10D came just from local service. It didnt focus correctly with my AF lenses and it was serviced as warranty work.

I thought that it was an body malfunction. Severe back focus. I noticed this after buying two weeks ago Sigma 70-200/2.8 DG lens. I have been using MF lenses lately...

They found some degree of back focus and adjusted it.... well... it backfocuses little less now, but it is not gone. It still backfocuses quite much. But less now than before service.

This is not lens related because it is same with all my AF lenses. All of them are older screw focus type.

There has been much discussion about backfocusing issues in DPRewiev.
I updated the firmware to 1.3 some time ago because my DA* 16-50 should be here any day.

It seems that this backfocus issue CAN be related to 1.3 firmware becaus as far as I can remember Af was much better some months ago when I last time used AF....

Any thoughts?

fwbigd · 09-04-2007, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Harald

Hello

My K10D came just from local service. It didnt focus correctly with my AF lenses and it was serviced as warranty work.

I thought that it was an body malfunction. Severe back focus. I noticed this after buying two weeks ago Sigma 70-200/2.8 DG lens. I have been using MF lenses lately...

They found some degree of back focus and adjusted it.... well... it backfocuses little less now, but it is not gone. It still backfocuses quite much. But less now than before service.

This is not lens related because it is same with all my AF lenses. All of them are older screw focus type.

There has been much discussion about backfocusing issues in DPRewiev.
I updated the firmware to 1.3 some time ago because my DA* 16-50 should be here any day.

It seems that this backfocus issue CAN be related to 1.3 firmware becaus as far as I can remember Af was much better some months ago when I last time used AF....

Any thoughts?

I tend to believe it is a lens issue. The reason I say this is because I have a DA*50-135 with which I have no focusing problems on my K10D. Nor do I have have any other problems with my FA* or Limited lens. My DA* 16-50 arrived two weeks ago and was returned to the dealer with the next day because of backfocusing issues.

Pentax has a problem which they need to address and very quickly be it a hardware or software problem if they want to keep their customer.

Harald · 09-04-2007, 10:49 AM

I do not belive it is lens related one. All lenses I tried behaved similarly, Pentax and Sigma ones. And service helped a little, but not enough.

And still my DA 10-17 and Sigma 70-200/2.8 DG can be both focused manually with much better results than with AF. Diffrence is very easily seen....

And it is all the time back focus, never spot on or front focus.

If it is lens related all lenses I tried has very same fault.... not very probable...

Chuck Lee · 09-04-2007, 11:13 AM

Harald,

It's very frustrating. I too have had issues with the K10 backfocusing at times when I needed it not too. A month ago I was working with my wife on outdoor flash skills when I noticed that all of the test shots were heavily backfocused. I set some test objects up on the patio table in a staggered position so that I could try some more tests with various lenses and my K100. The results showed clearly that everything except my Super Tak 105 2.8 (using hex confirm) was off to the rear. I found an article on dpreview about a key selection sequence for getting into the debug routine of the K10 firmware 1.1 and actually being able to adjust the front/back compensation. Pentax has since disabled it in later fw releases. With a very important wedding shoot within two weeks, I called Pentax tech and got transfered to 2nd tier at CO. I was hoping that the tech guy would agree to help me out over the phone and give me a way of adjusting the f/b in the firmware. Of course, that's out of the question...V-8 moment. Well the wedding went well and I sorta kept the Tamron around f4.0 and higher just too make sure photos were sharp. I took a few at f2.8 that looked tack sharp. So, I printed up the focus test chart ( Focus Test Chart by Tim Jackson 2004) mounted the K10 on a tripod and took some test shots. Dang!! the same camera and same lens that 2 weeks ago was giving me a fit for 6 hrs on a Sat. was almost perfect if not a little forward focusing. The only conclusions that I can come too rationally, is temperature, scene brightness, lens, or battery (which at the time was well charged) I have not had the time to substantiate any of these. Right now, everythings good. I noticed that the new D300 has the ability to adjust b/f focus and save per lens. This would be a great addition to the Pentax Custom Settings group to provide the end user with a way to slightly adjust the focus compensation based on different lenses. It sure would save alot of people, such as yourself, and Pentax Service a ton of time and head aches when it comes to these issues. Do I hear firmware enhancement request anybody? Ben? ....if your reading.

The DA* should tell the tale. Pentax Support (the guy I talked to) said that they will only look at focusing evidence based on the Tim Jackson Chart. (I think that's the right one. Someone please correct me if I'm in error here.)

One very stupid question: Are you using spot AF? I apologize now for asking.

Obviously a dimes worth this time, Good Luck Harald

Chuck

jeffkrol · 09-04-2007, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Chuck Lee

Harald,

It's very frustrating. I too have had issues with the K10 backfocusing at times when I needed it not too. A month ago I was working with my wife on outdoor flash skills when I noticed that all of the test shots were heavily backfocused. I set some test objects up on the patio table in a staggered position so that I could try some more tests with various lenses and my K100. The results showed clearly that everything except my Super Tak 105 2.8 (using hex confirm) was off to the rear. I found an article on dpreview about a key selection sequence for getting into the debug routine of the K10 firmware 1.1 and actually being able to adjust the front/back compensation. Pentax has since disabled it in later fw releases. With a very important wedding shoot within two weeks, I called Pentax tech and got transfered to 2nd tier at CO. I was hoping that the tech guy would agree to help me out over the phone and give me a way of adjusting the f/b in the firmware. Of course, that's out of the question...V-8 moment. Well the wedding went well and I sorta kept the Tamron around f4.0 and higher just too make sure photos were sharp. I took a few at f2.8 that looked tack sharp. So, I printed up the focus test chart ( Focus Test Chart by Tim Jackson 2004) mounted the K10 on a tripod and took some test shots. Dang!! the same camera and same lens that 2 weeks ago was giving me a fit for 6 hrs on a Sat. was almost perfect if not a little forward focusing. The only conclusions that I can come too rationally, is temperature, scene brightness, lens, or battery (which at the time was well charged) I have not had the time to substantiate any of these. Right now, everythings good. I noticed that the new D300 has the ability to adjust b/f focus and save per lens. This would be a great addition to the Pentax Custom Settings group to provide the end user with a way to slightly adjust the focus compensation based on different lenses. It sure would save alot of people, such as yourself, and Pentax Service a ton of time and head aches when it comes to these issues. Do I hear firmware enhancement request anybody? Ben? ....if your reading.

The DA* should tell the tale. Pentax Support (the guy I talked to) said that they will only look at focusing evidence based on the Tim Jackson Chart. (I think that's the right one. Someone please correct me if I'm in error here.)

One very stupid question: Are you using spot AF? I apologize now for asking.

Obviously a dimes worth this time, Good Luck Harald

Chuck

I assume he was referring to this one:
Nikon D70 Focus Chart

Harald · 09-04-2007, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Chuck Lee

Harald,

The DA* should tell the tale. Pentax Support (the guy I talked to) said that they will only look at focusing evidence based on the Tim Jackson Chart. (I think that's the right one. Someone please correct me if I'm in error here.)

One very stupid question: Are you using spot AF? I apologize now for asking.

Obviously a dimes worth this time, Good Luck Harald

Chuck

Thanks, Chuck

Spot AF? you mean center? yes.

I have to contact in the morning this fellow who serviced this body.

Fortunately I have his phone number.

I allready charged the battery, but alas, it didnt help

Well I have only two lenses left for this brand.... and waiting the DA* 16-50.

I just cleaned my cupboard from lenses and planned that DA 10-17, Da*16-50 and Sigma EX 70-200 APO DG would be nice and enough good quality set for my purposes....

And after firmware update I got this.... I am quite sure that this is firmware related, because it is the only change since summer when I got good/better results with AF....

Chuck Lee · 09-04-2007, 05:07 PM

Harald,

Yes "center"........I'm always somewhat embarrased to ask stupid questions but I know, just like that comment that we all sometimes overlook the trees for the forrest. Good Luck on getting your problem fixed.

Chuck

Justed · 09-05-2007, 10:47 AM

I am currently having a problem with the 50-200 lens from Pentax on a K100D. I did clean the electrical contacts and think it is doing much better. Have you tried this?

Harald · 09-05-2007, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Justed

I am currently having a problem with the 50-200 lens from Pentax on a K100D. I did clean the electrical contacts and think it is doing much better. Have you tried this?

Yes I have.

I called today to the serviceman who adjusted the body last week. Somehow I got an feeling that this problem wasnt unfamiliar to him. He said the body is "adjusted to the Pentax tolerances", what ever that actually means....

We talked about firmware and possibility to adjust focus from software. Obviously they adjusted it only mechanically.

The key sequence for service menu in version 1.2 was familiar to him (that it was leaked).

He said that they can adjust the focus for five individual lenses using Pentax service software. It is not possible anymore adjust focus from firmware service menu alone. It is done by using this service software.

This adjustment for five different lenses using service sofware was new to me. He said that the adjustment is then only for these lenses, not for others (other models?). Camera obviously recognises the lens attached (or only the model?) and adjusts focus accordingly as set.

I will send my lenses and the body to him for adjustment soon.

blende8 · 09-05-2007, 01:36 PM

No, you have one global setting for the AF and additionally the individual lens settings.

Harald · 09-05-2007, 02:03 PM

Well, if you say so.

Justed · 09-06-2007, 06:57 AM

I hope mine works out that well...am going to the Sacramento service center Friday with my whole setup.

Best of Luck

TomE · 09-06-2007, 07:15 AM

FWIW I had issues with BF with my K10D using my FA* lenses and I finally sent it to Pentax who replaced the camera body with a new one. The new one was all over the place with BF/FF issues also and sometimes even would give me the correct focus. It was not reliable, so I had it looked at and adjusted to Pentax specs, but it still would be off by just a bit on occasion either front or back, which at shallow DOF gave me soft images.

I finally gave up and sold it and am now using my DS while waiting to see what Pentax comes out with next before I decide what to do about a new camera. I found the K10D to be a work in progress and not a camera I could rely on 100% of the time like I can the DS.

When it worked it was great, but I do wildlife work and couldn't count on the K10D doing what it should with shots I could not do over focus wise. I decided two cameras, the same problem, I don't want the K10D any longer and it went away.

I would like to stick with Pentax, but they have to come out with something new that I can use since I need to upgrade from my DS sometime soon.

Tom

Harald · 09-06-2007, 08:08 AM

If your set focused correctly now and then, it was better than mine

This set doesnt focus never correctly, but there is hope because the error is consistent and same BF allways.

I just have a problem: I am waiting for the DA* 16-50 and dont want send my lenses and body to service before it arrives. Othervise I have to do it again when it cames.

TomE · 09-06-2007, 08:21 AM

My first copy BF'd always at shallow DOF such as 1.4/2.8, but Pentax told me it was within their specs even though they gave me a new body.

It just became frustrating since my DS is dead on with all my lenses, had less noise at ISO over 200 and never blew out the highlights. When the second body would BF/FF and many time be right on I told Pentax I thought something was loose inside and was changing positions. The checked it out and told me nothing was wrong with the body and that it must be me.

I could see that as a possibility if the DS was not so reliable, so I finally gave up and sold the K10D at a loss just because I didn't want to deal with it any longer. If I didn't use fast lenses wide open the issue was not a problem, but with my FA* 85mm 1.4 and my FA* 80-200mm 2.8 wide open nothing was ever as sharp as it could be except just behind or in front of the subject.

Same lenses wide open with the DS, dead on focus!

Tom

09-04-2007, 10:08 AM	#1
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259	K10D focus issues Hello My K10D came just from local service. It didnt focus correctly with my AF lenses and it was serviced as warranty work. I thought that it was an body malfunction. Severe back focus. I noticed this after buying two weeks ago Sigma 70-200/2.8 DG lens. I have been using MF lenses lately... They found some degree of back focus and adjusted it.... well... it backfocuses little less now, but it is not gone. It still backfocuses quite much. But less now than before service. This is not lens related because it is same with all my AF lenses. All of them are older screw focus type. There has been much discussion about backfocusing issues in DPRewiev. I updated the firmware to 1.3 some time ago because my DA* 16-50 should be here any day. It seems that this backfocus issue CAN be related to 1.3 firmware becaus as far as I can remember Af was much better some months ago when I last time used AF.... Any thoughts?

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09-04-2007, 10:41 AM	#2
fwbigd Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 339	Originally posted by Harald Hello My K10D came just from local service. It didnt focus correctly with my AF lenses and it was serviced as warranty work. I thought that it was an body malfunction. Severe back focus. I noticed this after buying two weeks ago Sigma 70-200/2.8 DG lens. I have been using MF lenses lately... They found some degree of back focus and adjusted it.... well... it backfocuses little less now, but it is not gone. It still backfocuses quite much. But less now than before service. This is not lens related because it is same with all my AF lenses. All of them are older screw focus type. There has been much discussion about backfocusing issues in DPRewiev. I updated the firmware to 1.3 some time ago because my DA* 16-50 should be here any day. It seems that this backfocus issue CAN be related to 1.3 firmware becaus as far as I can remember Af was much better some months ago when I last time used AF.... Any thoughts? I tend to believe it is a lens issue. The reason I say this is because I have a DA50-135 with which I have no focusing problems on my K10D. Nor do I have have any other problems with my FA or Limited lens. My DA* 16-50 arrived two weeks ago and was returned to the dealer with the next day because of backfocusing issues. Pentax has a problem which they need to address and very quickly be it a hardware or software problem if they want to keep their customer.

09-04-2007, 10:49 AM	#3
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259 Original Poster	I do not belive it is lens related one. All lenses I tried behaved similarly, Pentax and Sigma ones. And service helped a little, but not enough. And still my DA 10-17 and Sigma 70-200/2.8 DG can be both focused manually with much better results than with AF. Diffrence is very easily seen.... And it is all the time back focus, never spot on or front focus. If it is lens related all lenses I tried has very same fault.... not very probable...

09-04-2007, 11:13 AM	#4
Chuck Lee Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 55	Harald, It's very frustrating. I too have had issues with the K10 backfocusing at times when I needed it not too. A month ago I was working with my wife on outdoor flash skills when I noticed that all of the test shots were heavily backfocused. I set some test objects up on the patio table in a staggered position so that I could try some more tests with various lenses and my K100. The results showed clearly that everything except my Super Tak 105 2.8 (using hex confirm) was off to the rear. I found an article on dpreview about a key selection sequence for getting into the debug routine of the K10 firmware 1.1 and actually being able to adjust the front/back compensation. Pentax has since disabled it in later fw releases. With a very important wedding shoot within two weeks, I called Pentax tech and got transfered to 2nd tier at CO. I was hoping that the tech guy would agree to help me out over the phone and give me a way of adjusting the f/b in the firmware. Of course, that's out of the question...V-8 moment. Well the wedding went well and I sorta kept the Tamron around f4.0 and higher just too make sure photos were sharp. I took a few at f2.8 that looked tack sharp. So, I printed up the focus test chart ( Focus Test Chart by Tim Jackson 2004) mounted the K10 on a tripod and took some test shots. Dang!! the same camera and same lens that 2 weeks ago was giving me a fit for 6 hrs on a Sat. was almost perfect if not a little forward focusing. The only conclusions that I can come too rationally, is temperature, scene brightness, lens, or battery (which at the time was well charged) I have not had the time to substantiate any of these. Right now, everythings good. I noticed that the new D300 has the ability to adjust b/f focus and save per lens. This would be a great addition to the Pentax Custom Settings group to provide the end user with a way to slightly adjust the focus compensation based on different lenses. It sure would save alot of people, such as yourself, and Pentax Service a ton of time and head aches when it comes to these issues. Do I hear firmware enhancement request anybody? Ben? ....if your reading. The DA* should tell the tale. Pentax Support (the guy I talked to) said that they will only look at focusing evidence based on the Tim Jackson Chart. (I think that's the right one. Someone please correct me if I'm in error here.) One very stupid question: Are you using spot AF? I apologize now for asking. Obviously a dimes worth this time, Good Luck Harald Chuck

09-04-2007, 11:26 AM	#5
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by Chuck Lee Harald, It's very frustrating. I too have had issues with the K10 backfocusing at times when I needed it not too. A month ago I was working with my wife on outdoor flash skills when I noticed that all of the test shots were heavily backfocused. I set some test objects up on the patio table in a staggered position so that I could try some more tests with various lenses and my K100. The results showed clearly that everything except my Super Tak 105 2.8 (using hex confirm) was off to the rear. I found an article on dpreview about a key selection sequence for getting into the debug routine of the K10 firmware 1.1 and actually being able to adjust the front/back compensation. Pentax has since disabled it in later fw releases. With a very important wedding shoot within two weeks, I called Pentax tech and got transfered to 2nd tier at CO. I was hoping that the tech guy would agree to help me out over the phone and give me a way of adjusting the f/b in the firmware. Of course, that's out of the question...V-8 moment. Well the wedding went well and I sorta kept the Tamron around f4.0 and higher just too make sure photos were sharp. I took a few at f2.8 that looked tack sharp. So, I printed up the focus test chart ( Focus Test Chart by Tim Jackson 2004) mounted the K10 on a tripod and took some test shots. Dang!! the same camera and same lens that 2 weeks ago was giving me a fit for 6 hrs on a Sat. was almost perfect if not a little forward focusing. The only conclusions that I can come too rationally, is temperature, scene brightness, lens, or battery (which at the time was well charged) I have not had the time to substantiate any of these. Right now, everythings good. I noticed that the new D300 has the ability to adjust b/f focus and save per lens. This would be a great addition to the Pentax Custom Settings group to provide the end user with a way to slightly adjust the focus compensation based on different lenses. It sure would save alot of people, such as yourself, and Pentax Service a ton of time and head aches when it comes to these issues. Do I hear firmware enhancement request anybody? Ben? ....if your reading. The DA* should tell the tale. Pentax Support (the guy I talked to) said that they will only look at focusing evidence based on the Tim Jackson Chart. (I think that's the right one. Someone please correct me if I'm in error here.) One very stupid question: Are you using spot AF? I apologize now for asking. Obviously a dimes worth this time, Good Luck Harald Chuck I assume he was referring to this one: Nikon D70 Focus Chart

09-04-2007, 12:02 PM	#6
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259 Original Poster	Originally posted by Chuck Lee Harald, The DA* should tell the tale. Pentax Support (the guy I talked to) said that they will only look at focusing evidence based on the Tim Jackson Chart. (I think that's the right one. Someone please correct me if I'm in error here.) One very stupid question: Are you using spot AF? I apologize now for asking. Obviously a dimes worth this time, Good Luck Harald Chuck Thanks, Chuck Spot AF? you mean center? yes. I have to contact in the morning this fellow who serviced this body. Fortunately I have his phone number. I allready charged the battery, but alas, it didnt help Well I have only two lenses left for this brand.... and waiting the DA* 16-50. I just cleaned my cupboard from lenses and planned that DA 10-17, Da*16-50 and Sigma EX 70-200 APO DG would be nice and enough good quality set for my purposes.... And after firmware update I got this.... I am quite sure that this is firmware related, because it is the only change since summer when I got good/better results with AF....

09-04-2007, 05:07 PM	#7
Chuck Lee Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 55	Harald, Yes "center"........I'm always somewhat embarrased to ask stupid questions but I know, just like that comment that we all sometimes overlook the trees for the forrest. Good Luck on getting your problem fixed. Chuck

09-05-2007, 10:47 AM	#8
Justed New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacred Tomato, California Posts: 14	I am currently having a problem with the 50-200 lens from Pentax on a K100D. I did clean the electrical contacts and think it is doing much better. Have you tried this?

09-05-2007, 11:57 AM	#9
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259 Original Poster	Originally posted by Justed I am currently having a problem with the 50-200 lens from Pentax on a K100D. I did clean the electrical contacts and think it is doing much better. Have you tried this? Yes I have. I called today to the serviceman who adjusted the body last week. Somehow I got an feeling that this problem wasnt unfamiliar to him. He said the body is "adjusted to the Pentax tolerances", what ever that actually means.... We talked about firmware and possibility to adjust focus from software. Obviously they adjusted it only mechanically. The key sequence for service menu in version 1.2 was familiar to him (that it was leaked). He said that they can adjust the focus for five individual lenses using Pentax service software. It is not possible anymore adjust focus from firmware service menu alone. It is done by using this service software. This adjustment for five different lenses using service sofware was new to me. He said that the adjustment is then only for these lenses, not for others (other models?). Camera obviously recognises the lens attached (or only the model?) and adjusts focus accordingly as set. I will send my lenses and the body to him for adjustment soon.

09-05-2007, 01:36 PM	#10
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	No, you have one global setting for the AF and additionally the individual lens settings.

09-05-2007, 02:03 PM	#11
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259 Original Poster	Well, if you say so.

09-06-2007, 06:57 AM	#12
Justed New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacred Tomato, California Posts: 14	I hope mine works out that well...am going to the Sacramento service center Friday with my whole setup. Best of Luck

09-06-2007, 07:15 AM	#13
TomE Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 299	FWIW I had issues with BF with my K10D using my FA* lenses and I finally sent it to Pentax who replaced the camera body with a new one. The new one was all over the place with BF/FF issues also and sometimes even would give me the correct focus. It was not reliable, so I had it looked at and adjusted to Pentax specs, but it still would be off by just a bit on occasion either front or back, which at shallow DOF gave me soft images. I finally gave up and sold it and am now using my DS while waiting to see what Pentax comes out with next before I decide what to do about a new camera. I found the K10D to be a work in progress and not a camera I could rely on 100% of the time like I can the DS. When it worked it was great, but I do wildlife work and couldn't count on the K10D doing what it should with shots I could not do over focus wise. I decided two cameras, the same problem, I don't want the K10D any longer and it went away. I would like to stick with Pentax, but they have to come out with something new that I can use since I need to upgrade from my DS sometime soon. Tom

09-06-2007, 08:08 AM	#14
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259 Original Poster	If your set focused correctly now and then, it was better than mine This set doesnt focus never correctly, but there is hope because the error is consistent and same BF allways. I just have a problem: I am waiting for the DA* 16-50 and dont want send my lenses and body to service before it arrives. Othervise I have to do it again when it cames.

09-06-2007, 08:21 AM	#15
TomE Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 299	My first copy BF'd always at shallow DOF such as 1.4/2.8, but Pentax told me it was within their specs even though they gave me a new body. It just became frustrating since my DS is dead on with all my lenses, had less noise at ISO over 200 and never blew out the highlights. When the second body would BF/FF and many time be right on I told Pentax I thought something was loose inside and was changing positions. The checked it out and told me nothing was wrong with the body and that it must be me. I could see that as a possibility if the DS was not so reliable, so I finally gave up and sold the K10D at a loss just because I didn't want to deal with it any longer. If I didn't use fast lenses wide open the issue was not a problem, but with my FA* 85mm 1.4 and my FA* 80-200mm 2.8 wide open nothing was ever as sharp as it could be except just behind or in front of the subject. Same lenses wide open with the DS, dead on focus! Tom