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09-22-2010, 11:03 AM   #46
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Voice of Reason

QuoteOriginally posted by Eagle_Friends Quote
well thanks for calling a fellow Pentax owner a "DI**HEAD", really nice job there. I never once mentioned or said that Pentax were liars, my concern is that they're pricing it too high since its nearest competitors are hundreds of dollars cheaper. Pentax isn't Leica, they can't get away with pricing cameras this way.

It is true that the Pentax worth heartedly beat the 60D in terms of FPS and weather seal, but what about megapixels, video modes, tilt screen? I personally don't care for those things, but I'm just trying to make the same argument as you are. And against the D7000, the only area that the Pentax is superior is size factor and possibly better weather seal. 7 FPS is nice, but the buffer of the K5 due to one card slot will likely limit to about 25-30 continuous shots; where as the D7000 will likely go much higher in total shots.

But again, I'm basically saying that the cameras are quite similar in balances out in their pros and cons. But the K5 is priced higher, which is unfortunate.

You're welcome A****LE
Thank you for being another voice of reason. I am very surprised to have rocks thrown at me for stating the obvious - $1600 for a K-5 body is NOT competitive. Pentaxians are often bottom feeders who find joy in new lenses from garage and estate sales, but apparently there are also some Leica types who consider shooting with Pentax gear a type of snobbery. I never considered Pentax in any way like Leica, but apparetnly some do - and they have forgotrten the incredibly cheap and clunky Pentax cameras that populated the end of the film era.

I always considered shooting with Pentax a sign of Independence and intelligent comparisons - people that didn't jump on bandwagons just because all the CanNikon sites told them that was what they should do. In other words, people who use their cameras and know enough about photography to make their own comparisons and decisions. However, that does not include pretending Pentax is the only player in the photography market.

My very first "serious" camera was a Pentax H1A in 1967 if I recall. It had no metering so I learned to shoot with an intelligent set of rules and consider a film's latitude. I finally bought the meter that clipped on the prism and I thought I had landed in heaven. I took many many excellent images with that gear, and there has been a special place in my heart for the Pentax brand ever since.

However, loving Pentax does not mean you have to be an ostrich and pretend the rest of the camera world doesn't exist. The K-5 looks to be competitive, but at $1099 to $1199 like the new Nikon D7000 and NOT at $1599 for body only. The K-7 was $1399 when released and dropped quickly. Of course that is problem 2 with the top Pentax cameras - they don't hold their value like a top Nikon or Canon - and that also has to be factored into a buying decision.

Also a major concern is that the new K-r is also NOT competitive with the new 14.3MP Nikon D3100 or the Sony A33/A55 14.3/16.3MP which offer higher res, faster speeds (10fps/7fps), better AF, and much better video at the same or lower prices. Pentax needed more than a higher-priced spruce-up of the K-x with all the incredible new gear from competitors to the K-r that just landed.

I really root for a Pentax win, but IMHO current models at current pricing will mainly sell to the Pentax faithful. And just because I bring up a valid and troubling point does not mean I'm a troll or or whiner. Canon will also be hurting in their current entry model pricing/features compared to the new Nikon D3100 and Sony A33/A55 SLT.


Last edited by wwfnk; 09-22-2010 at 11:21 AM.
09-22-2010, 11:27 AM   #47
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wwfnk

It really depends on what your market is doesn't it ?

From my limited time with digital Pentax I see that it's a brand that interests people when they are either starting out in photography / moving over from film / have legacy or M42 glass they don't want to give up / or enjoy being a 'little bit different' from the crowd. Today they would probably start off with Kx or maybe a Kr.

When they become more deeply involved and their skills progress they will want a better body, for their lenses to be able to perform to the best of their abilities, and higher quality glass. That road map is now in place.

However when shooters reach a certain level of professionalism, and they don't retain brand loyalty if it is restrictive to their trade, then they will switch to Nikon / Canon because in their professions (journalism, wedding photographers, travel reporters, etc. etc.) they have an extended road map dedicated to their profession. That path will apply to only a tiny percentage of amateur photographers.

Therefore I see no reason for most Pentaxians to switch their allegiance to another brand simply because the latest top of the range model has a higher than we'd like MRSP. It will drop quickly, as the K7's did, and will become a solid model beloved, I'm sure, by Pentaxians because it will extend the parameters of what is possible to capture with their current range of lenses.

The people buying it now will simply be those with enough money and wanting the best offered by the brand they use or because they have reached that level of ability that the K5 will be a natural progression for them.
09-22-2010, 11:58 AM   #48
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I think that pretty much everyone is right in this thread, just looking at things from a different perspective.

For Pentax shooters, the K-5 looks to be a substantial upgrade in both autofocus performance and high ISO shooting. I am doubtful of the insanely high ISO settings (They are mostly just hype IMO and I wouldn't shoot over ISO 3200 generally on a Canon 7D, which is Canon's best high ISO crop sensor camera) but the sensor should be an improvement nonetheless. Due to these reasons, I can see the K-5 having a slight price premium which Pentax users will probably be willing to pay because this should be the best DSLR Pentax has ever made.

For other shooters just starting out that want a nice performing body, it will be a hard sell at the current prices. The Pentax system is incomplete compared to Canon and Nikon (no offense, it's just smaller and doesn't have nearly as much accessory support and third party options) and most of the great things about Pentax such as their weather sealed lineup and compact size wont be noticed by uneducated buyers. These buyers are going to see nothing but the cheaper price of the D7000 and D60 and the camera guy at the store will sell them on buying Canon or Nikon. FWIW, I think that the K-5 is a better camera than the D60 and basically equal to the D7000 in all the areas that matter. Example:39 point AF, but only 9 cross type. K-5 has 11 points with 9 cross-type. Pretty much equal in most respects. Just like people comparing d7000 to 7D. 7D has 19 all cross type autofocus points. I much prefer the 7D autofocus (on paper anyway) with it's lesser AF point array.

Last edited by str8talk83; 09-22-2010 at 12:30 PM.
09-22-2010, 12:10 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by wwfnk Quote
$1600 for a K-5 body is NOT competitive.
Sure but the camera is not yet on the shelves so it's a bit early to yell about the price. Actually probably nobody would contest the price if the Nikon D7000 wouldn't have been released with similar specs for a much lower price. Now let's give a chance to Hoya to react to this with an adjusted price. Myself, as much as I want a K-5 I won't buy it at 300-400$ more than a D7000. I'll just wait for the price to get down before thinking about more drastic options. My K-7 is still performing very well for my purposes.

I also agree that the K-r may face very hard competition. Again the Nikon D3100 is undercutting it. Damn Nikon

The next year maybe one of the toughest year for Pentax. Not only similar DSLR are very competitive on price and features but the mirrorless market is also eating an important portion of traditional DSLR.

09-22-2010, 12:36 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by snuffiduudeli Quote
I'm sort of pissed off since I just bought a K-x like a month ago and now they come up with this Seems like a good camera overall
well that's like saying your pissed because you just bought a new Ford Mustang and Mercedes just introduced a new E-class...Apple and Oranges...
09-22-2010, 02:33 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtroute Quote
well that's like saying your pissed because you just bought a new Ford Mustang and Mercedes just introduced a new E-class...Apple and Oranges...
Great point. Bodies come and go, but lenses last forever Unless you're Canon and they switch your mount on you (FD to EF) lol. Hopefully they don't pull something like that again....
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