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09-24-2010, 12:20 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
How do they check it? How can you prove you're a pro with 51% income from photography?
Here in Canada, your business tax returns for past and current tax year, with Canon you just have to more or less own gear but from what i've heard they still make you jump thru hoops too so it's more or less the same politics regardless of manufacturer UNLESS you're a big name shooter like Ben and his Holgas lol *woot...woot*


Last edited by Clicker; 09-24-2010 at 12:26 PM.
09-24-2010, 12:52 PM   #32
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Sobering tales to read here. I remember the day when I sent my K10D in with
a) cracked rear display
b) cracked body and jammed battery door (different and much older drop than the one that cracked the display)
c) a few other things

I got the K10D back quicker than they estimated (about 2 weeks?) at a very reasonable cost. It's a shame to hear being penny-wise & thus pound-foolishness of not having stock of parts on all continents, or quickly distributing them, has gotten this bad and caused long-time owners, semi-pros & pros to finally head out the door. Anyone with any juice @ Pentax reading (seriously doubt it); did this occur to you and have moves been made to address it?
09-26-2010, 04:48 PM   #33
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Responding to: Larentice Cristofer, Pop4, Wheatfield

I reread my post and I understand how you might make the assumption that I don't have a back up camera. This is not the case. I do have a back up. But what happens if my backup fails during the 6 to 8 weeks that I am left without my first camera? It also cramps my style since I use only prime lenses and like to have both cameras loaded with a different lens.

Apparently, you are quite content with the business model that requires three plus camera bodies, two plus of every lens, etc. Okay. Maybe this will help narrow the field for those wishing to shoot professionally, but I doubt it. Do you also own two or three cars as back ups in case your first car needs repair? And do you store some of your extra equipment in separate locations in case of fire? For my "day job," I have to have a car. I certainly don't feel the need to own two or three cars in case my car needs a repair. That is because one can get ones car repaired quickly. And if the repair is not quick enough, I can rent a car (or borrow one). Unfortunately, I don't have the same options with Pentax cameras where I live.

Now if I shot Canon or Nikon this would not be a problem. I can rent those easily. And that is no doubt why many people go with those brands if they have aspirations of shooting professionally. But I love the image quality I get from Pentax. And I don't understand a business model that essentially requires a photographer to stock up on their products if they are professionals because Pentax has not intention of providing realistic support.

So I wrote this post in hopes that it would stir the pot, and that maybe Pentax might take some of it in somehow. And that's all that I have to say.

Michael
09-26-2010, 09:49 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by skyoftexas Quote
I reread my post and I understand how you might make the assumption that I don't have a back up camera. This is not the case. I do have a back up. But what happens if my backup fails during the 6 to 8 weeks that I am left without my first camera? It also cramps my style since I use only prime lenses and like to have both cameras loaded with a different lens.

Apparently, you are quite content with the business model that requires three plus camera bodies, two plus of every lens, etc. Okay. Maybe this will help narrow the field for those wishing to shoot professionally, but I doubt it. Do you also own two or three cars as back ups in case your first car needs repair? And do you store some of your extra equipment in separate locations in case of fire? For my "day job," I have to have a car. I certainly don't feel the need to own two or three cars in case my car needs a repair. That is because one can get ones car repaired quickly. And if the repair is not quick enough, I can rent a car (or borrow one). Unfortunately, I don't have the same options with Pentax cameras where I live.

Now if I shot Canon or Nikon this would not be a problem. I can rent those easily. And that is no doubt why many people go with those brands if they have aspirations of shooting professionally. But I love the image quality I get from Pentax. And I don't understand a business model that essentially requires a photographer to stock up on their products if they are professionals because Pentax has not intention of providing realistic support.

So I wrote this post in hopes that it would stir the pot, and that maybe Pentax might take some of it in somehow. And that's all that I have to say.

Michael
When I shot Nikon I had the following bodies:
F3, F2s, FM-2, FE and some sort of Nikkormat, I don't recall, but it was an old clockwork body, and I had 3 standard lenses, and a couple of wides, plus 3 zooms that more or less covered the short wide to short tele range.
If you think moving to a different brand is going to allow you to only own one or two bodies, you have my sympathy in advance of the train wreck.
In point of fact I have 3 shooting kits in 3 different locations at the moment.

Part of your business model (if you have one) is to take into account what are the worst case scenarios that you are likely to encounter and plan your equipment purchases accordingly, taking into account the realities of all aspects of the equipment that you own.
For me, the ability to use Pentax lenses is the prime determining factor surrounding my equipment purchasing decisions, and has been since I dumped Nikon in favor of Pentax in 1985.

For you, I don't know, but it seems to me that you have a different set of priorities (you perhaps don't care as much about glass quality) and so should look at your equipment purchasing decisions a little more carefully in the future than you have done in the past.
I'm in a fairly fortunate situation because Pentax Canada has a generally very good repair service, and because I've always found Pentax cameras to be pretty reliable, though certainly they are not as ruggedly built as the high end Nikons that I used when I shot film.

09-26-2010, 10:27 PM   #35
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Wrong again.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
For you, I don't know, but it seems to me that you have a different set of priorities (you perhaps don't care as much about glass quality) and so should look at your equipment purchasing decisions a little more carefully in the future than you have done in the past.
I'm in a fairly fortunate situation because Pentax Canada has a generally very good repair service, and because I've always found Pentax cameras to be pretty reliable, though certainly they are not as ruggedly built as the high end Nikons that I used when I shot film.
One thing about forums is that some people jump at the chance to slap others down. You have clearly made decisions about me, and are not about to let asking a clarification question get in the way of your enjoyment to slap me down.

As I mentioned in my last post, I love the image quality I get with Pentax. If you had been a little more astute, you might have noticed that I mentioned that I use only primes. That should/could have been a clue as to what my relationship with Pentax is about. I use DA Limited primes almost exclusively because I think they produce superior images. To me, image quality is why I chose Pentax. Image quality is everything to me. But that doesn't stop me from taking Pentax to task for its lackadaisical support of the photographers that purchase its equipment. I am glad that you have not had any problems with repair service in Canada. I don't know what that proves, except that maybe you lack imagination and empathy to see beyond your own experiences.
09-27-2010, 01:48 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by skyoftexas Quote
One thing about forums is that some people jump at the chance to slap others down. You have clearly made decisions about me, and are not about to let asking a clarification question get in the way of your enjoyment to slap me down.

As I mentioned in my last post, I love the image quality I get with Pentax. If you had been a little more astute, you might have noticed that I mentioned that I use only primes. That should/could have been a clue as to what my relationship with Pentax is about. I use DA Limited primes almost exclusively because I think they produce superior images. To me, image quality is why I chose Pentax. Image quality is everything to me. But that doesn't stop me from taking Pentax to task for its lackadaisical support of the photographers that purchase its equipment. I am glad that you have not had any problems with repair service in Canada. I don't know what that proves, except that maybe you lack imagination and empathy to see beyond your own experiences.
Actually, it proves that I have the brains to accept that I need a certain amount of gear no matter what brand I shoot with.
Perhaps when you wake you will realize that it would be a good idea to do the same thing.
It's the professional thing to do.
09-27-2010, 02:58 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by skyoftexas Quote
Unfortunately, I have needed two repairs this year. A warranty repair on the Da 40mm lens, and an accident repair on the K20D. Both have endured parts back orders of more than 5 weeks. Currently, I am scrambling to come up with a K20D or K7 for a wedding on October 1st, while awaiting the part for my K20D. My question, is this normal? Acceptable? Can a professional photographer rely on Pentax to keep his/her equipment viable?

Frustrated in Austin, TX.,
Michael
Ok, Common problem with pentax regular repair. They have not been able to keep up with repairs since I can remember, CRIS (their new 3rd party repair shop) Does great work and is fast, If they have parts.
Main problem always is Parts, and they all come from overseas...
Now that being said:
PPS (Pentax Pro Service) Is very good and CRIS cam has done a great job at keeping up xtra fast repairs. Often I think they canablize full bodies to get these few repairs done because I have never had to wait longer than 1 week past the 48-72hr turn around they strive to make for PPS members. (And trust me I have had some "part" issues. They even work with you to opp faster shipping and they have good communication (again this is PPS)
I have been happy since the start of the PPS program, now its not anything like NPS or CPS, but its decent (main difference is that the other guys have more rental gear and more market share so more staff, faster service etc)
It sucks, but call the guys up that have your camera, Be polite and see what they can do. Ofter a nice phone call can get you bumped-up in line.
ALSO remember bodies like the Kx/r etc ARE NOT their top bodies so one can figure that PPS tends to stock more/focus on the high end bodies (k10/20, K7/5 etc)
One last thing is to find a local guy that can do the small things. I have a local shop if I "need it tomorrow" sometimes, I dont think they do as well with say a full overhaul but they have fixed flashes, a 16-50mm lens for me etc and always VERY fast
09-27-2010, 04:57 PM   #38
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I called again 3 weeks after my dead white K-x arrived in CRIS on 9/2/2010, parts were still back-ordered with the same status as recorded on 9/8/2010. My days with Pentax digital are numbered.

I got another rep and every time, I learned something more scarier. This time, I asked why K-x is not stocked with parts in Pentax USA or CRIS. The rep seems to indicate the parts bought by CRIS from Pentax USA or the parts stocked by Pentax USA have to do if the parts have been ordered due to failure. Then I come to ask what happen to newer cameras in K7 or K-x as compared to K10D or K20D. The rep implies that there are more parts in the older cameras as servicing under warranty or out-of-pocket will get CRIS or Pentax USA to stock up the parts.

I know I am over-reacting. But the story for a camera in warranty service period to be back-ordered by SHIP for at least 4 weeks from Japan to USA is not acceptable. I ask why the ship is used for 4 weeks in back-order instead of 1-2 weeks air, there is no solid answer except that the Japan manufacturer Pentax prefers Ship over Air for parts shipment. Average parts back-ordered ranges from 4 to 6 weeks from Japan to Pentax USA and CRIS.

Upon 6 weeks into repair schedule, I am told that I can talk to the supervisor for special arrangement in getting either a refurbished camera or a loaner -- this is Pentax generous courtesy to its users.

Stay on for my reporting on my dead K-x white. And if any of Pentaxian thinking of a non-black color camera from Pentax USA, you should really think again. Any parts back-ordered from Japan runs from 4 to 6 weeks just on the parts shipment and when you add up the service from CRIS, 2 months is the norm to expect warranty service if parts are not in stock in either Pentax USA or CRIS in AZ.

Hin


Last edited by hinman; 09-27-2010 at 05:02 PM.
09-27-2010, 05:11 PM   #39
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seems to me like the answer is, don't break your camera.

Just kidding, hope it all gets sorted out.

Shu
09-28-2010, 06:40 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by skyoftexas Quote
I reread my post and I understand how you might make the assumption that I don't have a back up camera. This is not the case. I do have a back up. But what happens if my backup fails during the 6 to 8 weeks that I am left without my first camera? It also cramps my style since I use only prime lenses and like to have both cameras loaded with a different lens.

Apparently, you are quite content with the business model that requires three plus camera bodies, two plus of every lens, etc. Okay. Maybe this will help narrow the field for those wishing to shoot professionally, but I doubt it. Do you also own two or three cars as back ups in case your first car needs repair? And do you store some of your extra equipment in separate locations in case of fire? For my "day job," I have to have a car. I certainly don't feel the need to own two or three cars in case my car needs a repair. That is because one can get ones car repaired quickly. And if the repair is not quick enough, I can rent a car (or borrow one). Unfortunately, I don't have the same options with Pentax cameras where I live.

Now if I shot Canon or Nikon this would not be a problem. I can rent those easily. And that is no doubt why many people go with those brands if they have aspirations of shooting professionally. But I love the image quality I get from Pentax. And I don't understand a business model that essentially requires a photographer to stock up on their products if they are professionals because Pentax has not intention of providing realistic support.

So I wrote this post in hopes that it would stir the pot, and that maybe Pentax might take some of it in somehow. And that's all that I have to say.

Michael
Renting Pentax is possible too. Here is one place :
CameraLensRentals.com - Canon, Nikon and Pentax Lens Rentals.







QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
I called again 3 weeks after my dead white K-x arrived in CRIS on 9/2/2010, parts were still back-ordered with the same status as recorded on 9/8/2010. My days with Pentax digital are numbered.

I got another rep and every time, I learned something more scarier. This time, I asked why K-x is not stocked with parts in Pentax USA or CRIS. The rep seems to indicate the parts bought by CRIS from Pentax USA or the parts stocked by Pentax USA have to do if the parts have been ordered due to failure. Then I come to ask what happen to newer cameras in K7 or K-x as compared to K10D or K20D. The rep implies that there are more parts in the older cameras as servicing under warranty or out-of-pocket will get CRIS or Pentax USA to stock up the parts.

I know I am over-reacting. But the story for a camera in warranty service period to be back-ordered by SHIP for at least 4 weeks from Japan to USA is not acceptable. I ask why the ship is used for 4 weeks in back-order instead of 1-2 weeks air, there is no solid answer except that the Japan manufacturer Pentax prefers Ship over Air for parts shipment. Average parts back-ordered ranges from 4 to 6 weeks from Japan to Pentax USA and CRIS.

Upon 6 weeks into repair schedule, I am told that I can talk to the supervisor for special arrangement in getting either a refurbished camera or a loaner -- this is Pentax generous courtesy to its users.

Stay on for my reporting on my dead K-x white. And if any of Pentaxian thinking of a non-black color camera from Pentax USA, you should really think again. Any parts back-ordered from Japan runs from 4 to 6 weeks just on the parts shipment and when you add up the service from CRIS, 2 months is the norm to expect warranty service if parts are not in stock in either Pentax USA or CRIS in AZ.
Hin
If you; as you wrote in your first post : "would expect a minimal 8 weeks to 12 weeks", then I don't get why you keep calling them; especially if it gets you all worked up.

I think you should try not to get too emotional about it. If it is two months, then just shoot with your other cams, and try to get the most of it. Grab your 645N and show us some more good pictures.
I fear you could run into the same with Nikon/Canon, unless you go with a premium program. It has always been that Canikon cater to the Pro market, and let the consumers pay the price. If circumstances runs against you, then you could probably end up waiting two months there too. For you to keep your mood in best state, I hope the Nikon cam you get, do not malfunction till you've had lot of joy from it.
I think CRIS also has to do with Nikon or Canon, so it may not be the last time that you talked to them :ugh:

I know we tend to get attached and somewhat partisan about our choices. As much as we idealize them, big companies are not friends. They are in a business to make money.
At the end of the day, it is just about a box that catches light, and can have different names at the front. We're talking cameras, and not life and death situations. It is something that most of us, just use for a hobby. I acknowledge that you feel you've done a lot to promote Pentax, spent a lot of time on it and then feel abandoned. If it would make you feel better, then for sure you should switch brand. Best of luck.

If the worst thing for you at the moment, is that you have to wait 2 months for a camera to return; then you're luckier than most people in the world.

So most importantly, enjoy other areas that you like, and remember to keep you head up. Cheers
09-28-2010, 07:07 AM   #41
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It is my reporting on what happens especially in back-ordered parts and I think it is very relevant to OP question if Pentax repair time is acceptable to Pros. K-x is NOT meant for pro by any standards and maybe that is the reason that it is not stocked with parts as much as K7 does. But my experience with service department should be relevant to professionals who try to get K-x or K-r as a backup body.

By all accounts and information gathered from others, I think CRIS is very reasonable on schedule in repair service; otherwise, none of the big names will let CRIS handle their repairs. The very basic issue is on the back-order of parts and slowness in shipment from Japan to US. And parts stocking seem to be strategic for cost saving at the expenses of customers' long waiting.

If one thinks of buying a colored DA 35mm f/2.4 or a colored K-x, K-r, you should think of the service warranty repair time when things goes wrong. It is infeasible to expect CRIS or Pentax USA to stock all color versions in the parts department.

Last edited by hinman; 09-28-2010 at 07:17 AM.
09-28-2010, 07:20 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
@Sune, if what I said in the posting bothers you, you can just ignore it and there is no need to tell me to switch brand or enjoy life as usual.

It is my reporting on what happens especially in back-ordered parts and I think it is very relevant to OP question if Pentax repair time is acceptable to Pros. K-x is NOT meant for pro by any standards and maybe that is the reason that it is not stocked with parts as much as K7 does. But my experience with service department should be relevant to professionals who try to get K-x or K-r as a backup body.

By all accounts and information gathered from others, I think CRIS is very reasonable on schedule in repair service; otherwise, none of the big names will let CRIS handle their repairs. The very basic issue is on the back-order of parts and slowness in shipment from Japan to US. And parts stocking seem to be strategic for cost saving at the expenses of customers' long waiting.

If one thinks of buying a colored DA 35mm f/2.4 or a colored K-x, K-r, you should think of the service warranty repair time when things goes wrong. It is infeasible to expect CRIS or Pentax USA to stock all color versions in the parts department.
Ok, thanks. I see your point.
I'm not too familiar with how things work out with Pentax and warranty in the states. For sure it might be important info for some users buying the various colour options
09-28-2010, 02:41 PM   #43
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I've only had service from pentax Colorado and they serviced my k10d 4 times, my k100d once (pixel map) none on my k20d (I dropped that and had to fix it myself) They were fairly fast fixing the bodies, but when they wouldn't fix my FA*300mm f2.8 (I sent it twice) After telling me they would fix it under warranty, they sent it back saying it was not sharp because it was designed for film and they wouldn't touch it. That was the last time I bought anything from Pentax, out of principal. My son is happy as a clam with the k100ds though (I really liked that one too!)
09-29-2010, 07:47 AM   #44
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I sent in my white K-X in about a month ago and I got it back within the 10-15 business day turn around they told me to expect. The only thing I did not like was that I was never contacted, not until the day before it was delivered and then it was the shipping service provider who contacted not Pentax. However, I am not sure if this is standard procedure for all brands or not.
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