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10-04-2010, 08:05 AM   #46
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Thanks for the detailed responses and the links. Still learning about dSLR features and trying to sort through hype vs. fact is tough.

10-04-2010, 08:30 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by WerTicus Quote
Yes it does, the K-x is actually a little bit ahead of the 7d in sensor performance.

The rest of the 7d is ahead of the K-x of course.

DxOMark - Compare sensors


and if you compare 3200 iso samples after resizing you'll see exactly what dxo says is the case:

Imaging Resource "Comparometer" ™ Digital Camera Image Comparison Page

Why do you think we are all so excited about the k-5? Even better performance in a top end body. its going to be great
Well I have a K-X and I have a 7D. For high ISO, 7D is slightly better than the K-X at 6,400 and 12,800. At 3,200 they're just about even.
10-04-2010, 10:12 AM   #48
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If I was abrupt, I apologize, it's just that I get irritated by these comparisons. You never see Canikon folks having these discussions. Look at how please they are with the Rebel series and they are plasticy toys in comparison to my K200D or KX.

If you are a sports photog then go Canikon, but if you shoot landscape or you are in harsh climates then go Oly or Pentax. It will cost you twice as much for a completely weather sealed Canikon and they are not as rugged as Pentax or Oly (sans the D300s).

Personally, I would rather know that my camera is going to survive harsh weather than worry about a little noise that can be cleaned with Noise Ninja anyway.

Just my 2 cents

BTW, fair review: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/03/18/pentax-k7-camera-review-in-photos/
10-04-2010, 10:53 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
It will cost you twice as much for a completely weather sealed Canikon and they are not as rugged as Pentax or Oly (sans the D300s).

Personally, I would rather know that my camera is going to survive harsh weather than worry about a little noise that can be cleaned with Noise Ninja anyway.
Twice as much? Really?

7D Body: $1429
17-40 F/4L: $720
Total Canon Weather Resistant package: $2149

K-5 Body: $1600
DA* 16-50 f/2.8: $1030
Total Pentax WR package: $2630

These are just comparable lenses and cameras. Sure you could get a cheapo 18-55 WR, but its not near the quality of an L or a DA*.
Now the DA is faster with a little bit more range, but is is work nearly $500 more? Seems to me your prices are way off. So it's about $500 cheaper to get a proven reliable camera with excellent performance. Time will tell if the K-5 is worth that extra amount. I seriously doubt it.


BTW: I am not a fanboy of any system, I simply go where I can get the best performance for my money. I have a K200D that I will be keeping around for along time because it is small, light, and you can't beat the CCD sensor performance. I will probably throw a DA prime on it and turn it into a walkaround camera. That and a 18-135 WR and it will be a great extra camera to have around.

10-04-2010, 11:08 AM   #50
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The Camera Store in Canada is advertising the K-5 at $1483 CDN or $1410USD

Photo price.ca are very good at tracking price for Candian from US or Canadian source
Photography, Digital Camera, Lens Price Comparisons for Canada - photoprice.ca
10-04-2010, 11:23 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by uchinakuri Quote
While I can understand your claim about the K-x holding its own against the 7D, to say that it holds its own against a full frame D700, for example? Either the folks youre going with are really poor users of their cams, or it's just way too much exaggeration...
It could work if we consider that we are operating within the confines of personal expectations. Not to mention, where conditions most commonly don't push camera's to their limits either. With this in mind, I think it's possible for various systems to come out with an acceptable no. of keepers in particular events.

Though I so think it really comes down to the point where we can only criticize peoples opinions within the scope of their own expectations(ie. what's acceptable to them...)

Last edited by JohnBee; 10-04-2010 at 01:25 PM.
10-04-2010, 12:03 PM   #52
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re the sensor discussion, I refer to this crop from DPReview that compares ISO 6400 JPGs:

10-04-2010, 12:39 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raylon Quote
Twice as much? Really?

7D Body: $1429
17-40 F/4L: $720
Total Canon Weather Resistant package: $2149

K-5 Body: $1600
DA* 16-50 f/2.8: $1030
Total Pentax WR package: $2630

These are just comparable lenses and cameras. Sure you could get a cheapo 18-55 WR, but its not near the quality of an L or a DA*.
Now the DA is faster with a little bit more range, but is is work nearly $500 more? Seems to me your prices are way off. So it's about $500 cheaper to get a proven reliable camera with excellent performance. Time will tell if the K-5 is worth that extra amount. I seriously doubt it.


BTW: I am not a fanboy of any system, I simply go where I can get the best performance for my money. I have a K200D that I will be keeping around for along time because it is small, light, and you can't beat the CCD sensor performance. I will probably throw a DA prime on it and turn it into a walkaround camera. That and a 18-135 WR and it will be a great extra camera to have around.
How are these the same package? A lot better lens to compare would be the Canon 17-55 f2.8 lens (I have no idea if it is sealed or not, but it is roughly the same range and similar speed) and that lens runs more like 1100 dollars.

By the way, I think your 16-50 price is off considerably due to MAP. When I add it to the cart from B and H, I get 750 dollars. Roughly the same as your *slower*, *poorer range* zoom from Canon.

As to the price of the K5, I think it is pretty certain that it will end up selling for roughly 1200 dollars on release, so numbers here are pretty nebulous. Anyway, call it 1250 -- your end result is a better package for 2000 dollars.

10-04-2010, 12:43 PM   #54
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Canon admits that the 7D isn't as sealed as the K7 or the K5. Most of this is academic any way. Shoot with what you like.

I was referring to the K7.

K7 $850
B&H DA* 16-50mm $750
Total $1400

On a budget:
K7 $850
18-135 WR $529
total $1379

K5 per Photokina $1299
DA18-135 WR $529
Total $1829
10-04-2010, 12:44 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
The Camera Store in Canada is advertising the K-5 at $1483 CDN or $1410USD

Photo price.ca are very good at tracking price for Candian from US or Canadian source
Photography, Digital Camera, Lens Price Comparisons for Canada - photoprice.ca
Yeah, I saw that too and posted the link at another forum a couple of days ago. I wasn't sure if this had been posted here at PF.
Not bad, considering it had been pre-advertised for much more than that.

From what I can see, prices for the K5, body only, is still a bit steep but no doubt this will be coming down over the next few months.

JP
10-04-2010, 01:02 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
Canon admits that the 7D isn't as sealed as the K7 or the K5
Can you cite a solid and reliable reference for this please?

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
How are these the same package? A lot better lens to compare would be the Canon 17-55 f2.8 lens (I have no idea if it is sealed or not, but it is roughly the same range and similar speed) and that lens runs more like 1100 dollars.
I have to agree here, the 17-40L is not the same as the 16-50 DA* f/2.8 and the Canon lens you mention is a much fairer comparison. The Canon 17-55 f/2.8 is not a sealed unit, but that does not ditract from it being a superb lens.

There's no denying that Pentax is the only cost effective weather resistant setup, but given my own experience with SDM failures and the well documented issues with SDM on the DA* lenses (not to mentiong the QC woes of the 16-50 DA*) you need to go with the age old saying of "you get what you pay for".
10-04-2010, 01:37 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
Canon admits that the 7D isn't as sealed as the K7 or the K5. Most of this is academic any way. Shoot with what you like.

I was referring to the K7.

K7 $850
B&H DA* 16-50mm $750
Total $1400

On a budget:
K7 $850
18-135 WR $529
total $1379

K5 per Photokina $1299
DA18-135 WR $529
Total $1829
Sorry, can't add $750 + $850 = $1600
10-04-2010, 01:46 PM   #58
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Actually the comparable lens in EOS mount would be the Tokina 16-50mm f 2.8--a sister lens to the Pentax DA*. This may be discontinued, but the going retail price is about $560US.

In the Canon world, this lens is considered to be below the quality of the similar Canon offerings due to focus accuracy issues.

OTOH, the Tokina 50-135mm is well regarded, and meets a need in the EF-S-sized offerings. I like mine a little better than the flawless DA* 50-135mm I used for the past few years.

M

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
How are these the same package? A lot better lens to compare would be the Canon 17-55 f2.8 lens (I have no idea if it is sealed or not, but it is roughly the same range and similar speed) and that lens runs more like 1100 dollars.

By the way, I think your 16-50 price is off considerably due to MAP. When I add it to the cart from B and H, I get 750 dollars. Roughly the same as your *slower*, *poorer range* zoom from Canon.

As to the price of the K5, I think it is pretty certain that it will end up selling for roughly 1200 dollars on release, so numbers here are pretty nebulous. Anyway, call it 1250 -- your end result is a better package for 2000 dollars.
10-04-2010, 01:47 PM   #59
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May or may not be 100% accurate. Please do your research to be safe.

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00Vq2m

BTW, Big G: the KX has the most detail and is not as smudged. Good example.

Last edited by john5100; 10-04-2010 at 02:04 PM.
10-04-2010, 03:12 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote

BTW, Big G: the KX has the most detail and is not as smudged. Good example.
Not a good example. We are comparing the Kx to the 7D, not the much inferior T2i
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