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09-08-2007, 01:06 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Sony has the A700 come out. Olympus will have the E-3 (tentative rumoured name) lanuched in October. Nikon has the D300 and D3. Canon has had the 40D and 1DS Mk III.
Sony:
A700 = $1300 body only

Olympus:
E-3? Don't have a price on that one- not even named, let alone "out" yet.

Nikon
D300 = $1800 (not released yet - maybe in November)
D3 = $5000 (not released yet - maybe in November)

Canon:
40D = $1300
1DS MkIII = $8000 (come on - you think this is Pentax's competition? give it a break - if you think you have to buy an $8K body to one-up the K10D, you need to go home and rethink your life)

Pentax K10D = $679 after rebate.
I don't think Pentax needs to rush into anything, they've practically got an "entry level" price on what I wouldn't consider an "entry level" camera.



I agree with some of the other posters - Pentax needs to get a better selection of lenses out, and not just DA*'s either - but regular DA's as well. Another body is great and all, but we need more lenses, especially on the long end.

Because, think about it - at this stage in the game, most any advances in camera bodies are just barely leapfrogging the past models, (except for that $8000 model, which puts it into a severe niche right off the bat, and will never be Canon's "bread and butter" model, obviously)

09-08-2007, 03:50 PM   #17
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Please remember who started this thread - RH. The anti-Pentax. Just ignore it and maybe it will go away.

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09-09-2007, 01:30 AM   #18
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Thanks for the compliment, RichHigh.

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Sony has the A700 come out. Olympus will have the E-3 (tentative rumoured name) lanuched in October. Nikon has the D300 and D3. Canon has had the 40D and 1DS Mk III. Where is PENTAX? What's the next? ANY?? Still rely on the K10D and K100D? Do you think people will still choose these amongst the above? (I'm afraid NOT!)

Thanks again, RiceHigh. It's a real compliment to see a Canon user such as yourself consistently linking the $650-750 Pentax K10D to cameras often costing two, three, or more times more ($1300 Sony A700, $1700 Nikon D300, $4800 Nikon D3, $1300 Canon 40D, and $7900 Canon 1DS MkIII). Such lofty associations only help me to realize just how fantastic the K10D truly is.

Of course, since you just purchased your $2500 Canon EOS 5D, I suspect you're very worried about when the next, even higher-end, Pentax model might to be released. After all, based on the current Pentax marketing strategy (fine cameras, with features similar to those costing much more, offered at prices far less), not only might that new Pentax match, or even beat, your 5D in most every major aspect, it will probably cost half what you paid for your Canon as well.

Throughout all this, millions will continue to purchase the Pentax K10D because it offers so much, enough to be consistently associated with cameras costing much more, for such a very low price.

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09-09-2007, 05:38 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
It's a real compliment to see a Canon user such as yourself consistently linking the $650-750 Pentax K10D to cameras often costing two, three, or more times more ($1300 Sony A700, $1700 Nikon D300, $4800 Nikon D3, $1300 Canon 40D, and $7900 Canon 1DS MkIII). Such lofty associations only help me to realize just how fantastic the K10D truly is.
Nicely played.

09-09-2007, 06:16 AM   #20
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OK ... to simply answer both your questions:

Where is Pentax?
2-36-9 Maeno-cho, Itabashi-ku, Tokyo 174-8639 Japan
Phone: (81)-3-3960-5151

What is next?
Whatever they decide to put out ... whenever they feel like it.

How about some people just be a little patient with things ... it's not the end of the world.
Look ... they were founded in November 1919 ... they aren't going to fall of the face of the earth just yet.
09-09-2007, 07:08 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mechan1k Quote
OK ... to simply answer both your questions:

Where is Pentax?
2-36-9 Maeno-cho, Itabashi-ku, Tokyo 174-8639 Japan
Phone: (81)-3-3960-5151
Good answer! I like your good sense of humour! :-D

QuoteQuote:
And yes, I know their address, otherwise I could not send their CEO my registered mail last time (A Letter to the CEO of Pentax Corporation)

What is next?
Whatever they decide to put out ... whenever they feel like it.

How about some people just be a little patient with things ... it's not the end of the world.
Look ... they were founded in November 1919 ... they aren't going to fall of the face of the earth just yet.
This is of course not the end of the world, but it's just that *they* miss the boat again.
09-09-2007, 07:13 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Thanks again, RiceHigh. It's a real compliment to see a Canon user such as yourself consistently linking the $650-750 Pentax K10D to cameras often costing two, three, or more times more ($1300 Sony A700, $1700 Nikon D300, $4800 Nikon D3, $1300 Canon 40D, and $7900 Canon 1DS MkIII). Such lofty associations only help me to realize just how fantastic the K10D truly is.
If Pentax *could* sell the K10D at a higher price, why they didn't and don't do that?? Just think about it.

QuoteQuote:
Of course, since you just purchased your $2500 Canon EOS 5D, I suspect you're very worried about when the next, even higher-end, Pentax model might to be released. After all, based on the current Pentax marketing strategy (fine cameras, with features similar to those costing much more, offered at prices far less), not only might that new Pentax match, or even beat, your 5D in most every major aspect, it will probably cost half what you paid for your Canon as well.
If this day really comes, I will be so glad and happier than anyone else, I can say. I hope this comes true by today, but of course I know I am dreaming.

QuoteQuote:
Throughout all this, millions will continue to purchase the Pentax K10D because it offers so much, enough to be consistently associated with cameras costing much more, for such a very low price.
So, you still think that Pentax is a charity body than a company who just wants to make profits?

stewart[/QUOTE]
09-09-2007, 07:20 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by khardur Quote
<snip>
1DS MkIII = $8000 (come on - you think this is Pentax's competition? give it a break - if you think you have to buy an $8K body to one-up the K10D, you need to go home and rethink your life)
<snip>
oh man i needed that.... lol... im still chuckling over that one .... ...

09-09-2007, 08:15 AM   #24
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Really?

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Sony has the A700 come out. Olympus will have the E-3 (tentative rumoured name) lanuched in October. Nikon has the D300 and D3. Canon has had the 40D and 1DS Mk III. Where is PENTAX? What's the next? ANY?? Still rely on the K10D and K100D? Do you think people will still choose these amongst the above? (I'm afraid NOT!)
When your $2000+ Canon 5D is upgraded to gain some of the standard features available on the K10D for $600, perhaps we will start to worry that Canon may be catching up.
09-09-2007, 08:22 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
1) If Pentax *could* sell the K10D at a higher price, why they didn't and don't do that?? Just think about it.




2)If this day really comes, I will be so glad and happier than anyone else, I can say. I hope this comes true by today, but of course I know I am dreaming.



3) So, you still think that Pentax is a charity body than a company who just wants to make profits?
1) Pricepoint decisions are based on many factors including a need to increase volume, increase name brand recognition, decrease inventory for new models. The "price" of an object is not just it's "value". Could they sell the k10's for more? My guess is not at this time but not really based on "quality" just competition/marketplace.
2) The day you give up on Pentax all together is my dream...
3) Without knowing profit margins, implying that Pentax is a charity is silly. As to how much money they make is a purely internal decision based on many factors. Why do you insist on trying to "simplify" the complex..
09-09-2007, 08:29 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
If Pentax *could* sell the K10D at a higher price, why they didn't and don't do that?? Just think about it.
Because they don't play the pricing game like Canon does.

Apparently, their production methods are efficient enough to be able to price the K10D that low and still make a killing off it. That, or they can afford to lower prices since a lot of people opt to buy the K10D.

Realize that there are many ways to do business, and not just what *you* would do if you were the head of a successful company.
09-09-2007, 09:34 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Not really. The K10D was announced Sept. last year and only that shipment was delayed and delayed until fall Nov / early Dec in last year. So, it is one year old now.

Besides, software and firmware upgrade cannot help to enrich much further the feature set and performance of the cameras, they need to upgrade the hardware also.

All Olys have LiveView, The 40D has it too, D300 and A700 has a new sensor and the trend is for a 3" large LCD mon with VGA resolution. So, what's the differentiator for the K10D to keep it competitive? There is None actually, not even to mention the thing that has been already lagged behind like the only 16-segment matrix metering with the least accuracy and intelligence. As for the K100D Super, it is nothing really "super" to compete for the entry level market - Pentax need to have at least a 10MP new low level model in order to compete.

Body is more important than lenses in order to compete for new or even old customers. Usually people will either choose on a large brand name system or to choose the body they like first and then built the system slowly and gradually.
At what price?

Canon's Rebel XTi and the K10D are priced at approximately the same point, the XTi is vastly inferior. Come on, no spot metering on a $800 body? You have to be kidding me, my $400 point-and-shoot Panasonic DMC-LX1 has that. I don't see the XTi getting refreshed. Even the K100D can eat the XTi for lunch, even though it's priced closer to the XT. Megapixels aren't everything, the Rebels are missing critical features to allow them to make use of those pixels. Oh yeah, especially because the Rebels apparently force JPEG in certain shooting modes from what I've heard. That's a "megapixel waster" right there.

LiveView - Would be nice, but I can easily live without it.

New sensor - I wouldn't be surprised if Pentax adopts the new sensor used by Sony/Nikon within a few months. This is pretty typical - Sony moves to a new sensor and starts selling the bare sensor to other manufacturers, and Pentax adapts it to their cameras a few months later. My sensor is beyond the limits of my glass anyway. It's a minor incremental improvement (A few extra megapixels without any sensor area increase). I won't be drooling for a new sensor until there's a groundbreaking improvement. (Like if Kodak's new sensor lives up to the hype when they release it.)

Nikon - I didn't see anything about the D300 that made it worth being twice the price of my K10D. Minor incremental improvements in areas where the K10D already performs fine, and with the K10D I actually own my photos. Nikon has been pulling NEF encryption shenanigans in order to set themselves up for some DMCA abuse so they can force people to use their shitty RAW converter software and not the processing software of their choice. (There is NO other reason for encrypting the NEF whitebalance and Nikons "we're doing this for your own good" response to the NEF encryption fiasco) Nikon is never receiving any of my business until they resolve that mess and apologize to their users.

Olympus - Four-Thirds is probably Pentax's biggest threat, as it enables manufacturers to band together and pool resources to generate a system of compatible accessories and optics. (Pentax's biggest problem, as most will agree right now, is glass.) If not for the reduced sensor size of Four-Thirds I would probably own an Olympus or a Panasonic L1 (Employees of my company get major discounts from Panasonic, so the L1 came VERY close to getting purchased. I just didn't see enough image stabilized glass for the L1.) I'm a bit wary of Oly since they're obsessed with their own memory card format. I'm enjoying having EVERYTHING in my apartment that uses removable storage using SD (or in the case of my phone, MicroSD which can be put into an SD adapter)

Sony - While proprietary interfaces (mounts, etc) are to be expected in the camera industry, in true Sony style, they've taken the few standard interfaces in the camera industry (such as the hotshoe mount) and replaced them with proprietary variants. I don't buy Sony in general for this reason.
09-09-2007, 11:24 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
If Pentax *could* sell the K10D at a higher price, why they didn't and don't do that?? Just think about it.



If this day really comes, I will be so glad and happier than anyone else, I can say. I hope this comes true by today, but of course I know I am dreaming.



So, you still think that Pentax is a charity body than a company who just wants to make profits?

stewart
[/QUOTE]

It's called volume....why set a higher price when you can sell lower and sell more than the competition? Its a basic business principal. Do you think Canon survives on the 30D? 5D? EOS1's? NO! It survives on the lower end 300, 350 and 400D models and the point and shoot line. Very few in the overall scheme of people will spend more than a $1000 on a camera body. Think big...there are BILLIONS of people out there. How many have $1000 plus camera bodies? Its simple business. Pentax offers pro stuff at a price the common man can afford by stretching just a little bit and then provides access to inexpensive lens to boot. The common man now feels like he has a pro camera in his hands especially with the BG grip. Wanna use a camera (with the features) the pros use? Buy the Pentax
09-09-2007, 03:04 PM   #29
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Visited a motorsport meeting yesterday and I took notice of what the 'pros' wearing the luminous vests marked "Official Photographer", were shooting with.
Certainly the majority were using Canon and Nikon, but one of them was using Pentax as his primary camera and walked past another group of 4, two of whom had Pentax K10D's over their shoulders as well as Canon.
I was also surprised at the number of Pentax dslr cameras in the crowd, it wasn't that long ago you could go to something like this and never see another Pentax.

My point being Michael, that maybe Pentax are doing a little better than you give them credit for.
Lighten up buddy, you have got your marvellous 5D, so be happy.....and photos Michael, take photos (thats actually what Mr Canon made it for).
Grant
09-09-2007, 03:34 PM   #30
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I don't know why people would worry about what Pentax camera is next, it's quite obvious anyway. It'll be a 12.2 mp APS-C format camera in a box that looks something like a K10D, perhaps with the word Super attached to the end of it. The K10D is the best camera in its class by far and all Pentax needs to do is use the Sony CMOS sensor and you'll all be happy. At what level the new camera will be I'm unsure, they'll either make it a K10D upgrade or push it a level higher giving Pentax a 3 camera range. I don't think Pentax will go FF but who knows!!

Tim H
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