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09-10-2007, 06:08 AM   #46
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Why does every thread, started by RH, become so rude? If anyone else asks the same question, he gets polite replies. Please open Your sugar and syrup covered eyes and read what he has to say. I think it's reasonable critique he wrote and he's not a inexperienced teenager. Actually he pwned You all, but all You can is just chant that Pentax=good, RH=bad. If he would hate Pentax, he didn't have all those fantastic pentax primes and he didn't wait for a better Pentax camera.

09-10-2007, 06:15 AM   #47
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Yep. As I said, this is part discussion forum but part fan site. Seeming to tip more towards the latter.

I take consolation from knowing two things. Firstly, Pentaxians on DPreview and other forums are far more fanatical than here. Secondly, the situation would be much worse still if it were another brand, especially the big two companies/religions.
09-10-2007, 06:17 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Why does every thread, started by RH, become so rude?
Rude? I'm not rude or insultive... Just writing what I thing... nothing else...
09-10-2007, 06:51 AM   #49
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Well to praise and bury him at the same time.... He has some points but unfortunately sensationalizes each and every topic as a major disaster. Not to mention will take a bad report and make it gospel and then will take a good report and either downplay it as meaningless or ignore it completely. THAT is what has frustrated people for years... and it doesn't take much searching to see that for yourself.
Just read the comments to his blog on the centering defects (and lack of response by him) and it helps to balance out his "rant" disgused as a authoritative statement...
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=37790811&postID=5257110237331737737
My take is, yes there are bad copies of lenses out there, all companies have them, is Pentax worse than others? Unknown at this point as the sample size (and the fact problems are posted more than cheers) is too small. Is it frustrating that Pentax isn't perfect? Yes. Is true "star" quality dead, common sense says "yes". These lenses were hand assembled in Japan. 2 things that will not really ever happen again. Well maybe hand assembled by some of the cheapest labor on earth. Sorry, that's reality and I seriously doubt if reasonable people would expect any less. The old days are dead (old Pentax didn't even do DSLR), and w/ HOYA they are even deader but the new can be as good only different....which seems to bother people.
And this tabloid posting goes on and on and on........... don't get me started on all his false assumptions on metering......

09-10-2007, 07:26 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Why does every thread, started by RH, become so rude? If anyone else asks the same question, he gets polite replies. Please open Your sugar and syrup covered eyes and read what he has to say. I think it's reasonable critique he wrote and he's not a inexperienced teenager. Actually he pwned You all, but all You can is just chant that Pentax=good, RH=bad. If he would hate Pentax, he didn't have all those fantastic pentax primes and he didn't wait for a better Pentax camera.
1. because RH is a self aggrandizing condescending boor. Every post he makes points back to some earth shattering test he has conducted and posted on his own website.

2. because many of us are willing to take criticism of Pentax equipment from photographers but not from someone who seemingly never takes a photo except to measure the performance of the camera or lens.

3. because some of us have the nagging suspicion that he is a Canon employee conducting a long term & "deep cover" attack on Pentax. I don't know of anyone who has actually met him or can verify that he actually has all of those lenses.

and 4. because he has been rude to so many people that it's natural to be rude right back...
09-10-2007, 07:30 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
(snip) My view is the 400D/XTi has better image quality than the K10D. (snip) The K10D has great features and ergonomics, I agree. But the image quality and accuracy of the 400D are better. (snip)

And how do you know these things, RiceHigh? I've seen no direct comparison between images taken with these three cameras. You don't own a Pentax K10D, so you have no real experience with this camera or it's image quality. Instead, according to what you've said before, your judgements are based on tidbits selectively plucked here and there from various websites and internet forums to fit your particular bias. This tendency to selectively choose information is why your blog and forum messages paint a far more negative impression of the K10D than the reviews overall, or the experiences reported by the vast majority actually using this camera.

You also have a tendency to repeat inaccurate information even after that is shown to be wrong. For example, you've posted negative comments about the K10D's color accuracy before (in the German forum, for example) and were directed to reviews describing this camera's color accuracy as amoung the best in the industry. In spite of that, you now add a comment about that accuracy here.

Between your blog and the many forums you participate in, you spend an exorbitant amount of time online. This one forum alone eats up a lot of my free time, yet I've seen messages posted by you in perhaps a half dozen other forums in addition to this one. Do you ever get away from the computer long enough to actually use the cameras you claim to own? Perhaps if you spent more time taking pictures, you would have less time for so much negative rhetoric in forum after forum.

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09-10-2007, 07:56 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
Once again...

He still uses Pentax and plays with his K100d as well as his "precious 5D". He went on Canon forums pointing out 'issues' with the 5D just like he did here. And it wasn't him who brought up the 5D in this thread, it was Pentaxians who felt the need to bash him over the head with said 5D for daring to make another criticism.

And, once again, Canon does not need to pay anyone to persuade people not to look at Pentax. The power of marketing ensures that. As much as we would like to believe it, Canon are not looking here thinking "Oh my, we have to get those people to stop looking at Pentax and come over to us if we're going to survive"...

I've given my view on why RiceHigh will never be happy with any system and never be accepted on any forum. But no doubt I will be considered his accomplice in the Canikon anti-Pentax conspiracy now for defending him
Well Zaphod...

I personally don't consider you his "accomplice" but I do consider it naive to think that Canon and Nikon are not completely capable and willing to use negative tests results (real or manufactured) and "word-of-mouth" to persuade potential customers to buy their product rather than Pentax. Heck if I was them I would. They didn't get big by playing tidly-winks. They got big by using every marketing idea in the book and pushing their cameras. Unfortunately, Pentax largely relied upon the cameras to sell themselves and on current users to bring in new customers.

The tactic of painting your competition negatively can be particularly effective (and dirt cheap) in this day and age. Afterall, many people search the internet thoroughly before buying a toothbrush, much less before dropping hundreds of dollars on a new camera. How would it influence your decision if you were looking for a new camera and found negative comments on an obvious Pentax fan site (most of us are fans or we wouldnt be here would we?)? "Oh my, if guys who like Pentax think the new Pentax KXD won't resolve between 2 and 3 hairs on a housefly's butt then I need to look at the Canon that the reviewer mentioned."

As for him still having his K100D and lenses, how do we really know?
09-10-2007, 07:58 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
2. because many of us are willing to take criticism of Pentax equipment from photographers but not from someone who seemingly never takes a photo except to measure the performance of the camera or lens.

That's it, right there. Pentax cameras are made for photographers of all levels, not just pros. Pentax's philosophy is simply, "Shut up and show me your pictures!" If Nikon and Canon are superior cameras, shut up and show us the pics. Not just "test shots"....actual pictures that have some sort of lasting meaning. When put in that context, Pentax cameras offer the best value for the money. If you want imaging power, buy a Pentax SLR (with all its faults) and pair it with a Limited Edition prime lens. You'd have to switch to Leica to get a superior image and you'd have to pay 10 times the price. THAT is the Pentax philosophy.

09-10-2007, 08:02 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Why does every thread, started by RH, become so rude? If anyone else asks the same question, he gets polite replies. Please open Your sugar and syrup covered eyes and read what he has to say. I think it's reasonable critique he wrote... (snip)

Why? Because RiceHigh has spent months trashing Pentax, and the K10D specifically (a camera he doesn't own and has no real experience with), in forum after forum throughout the internet. Because RiceHigh has a web blog trashing Pentax and the K10D using mostly inaccurate, misleading, or incomplete information. Because RiceHigh has a tendency to selectively pluck tidbits of information from various websites and internet forums to paint a negative impression of the K10D. Because RiceHigh, to my knowledge, has never said a positive thing about Pentax, the K10D, or K10D users without qualifying it with an immediate negative comment afterwards. I could go on, but that is likely more than enough to convince anyone at all willing to be convinced.

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09-10-2007, 08:15 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
As for him still having his K100D and lenses, how do we really know?
Who cares...
09-10-2007, 08:45 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Well Zaphod...

I personally don't consider you his "accomplice" but I do consider it naive to think that Canon and Nikon are not completely capable and willing to use negative tests results (real or manufactured) and "word-of-mouth" to persuade potential customers to buy their product rather than Pentax. Heck if I was them I would. They didn't get big by playing tidly-winks. They got big by using every marketing idea in the book and pushing their cameras. Unfortunately, Pentax largely relied upon the cameras to sell themselves and on current users to bring in new customers.
MRRiley... Thanks for being reasonable

I still have to disagree though, as personally I think the more na´ve belief is the one, which I often see on Pentax forums, that Pentax is in any way a serious enough threat to the "big two" that those companies would need to attempt to paint Pentax in a bad light and draw attention away from them.

Honestly, they have absolutely no reason to. Potential dSLR buyers see Canon and Nikon all over TV, in movies, on posters, in the hands of most "professional" photographers, and therefore simply equate the brand names with "Pro" photography. They have very short memories, and for the most part K1000 and LX mean nothing to them, nor do Limited primes unless they happen to have found Mike Johnston's site (and they are more likely to stumble on Ken R0ckwell's)... they want pixels pixels pixels, and so the K100d doesn't look too impressive to them (consider the Nikon D40x having extra pixels stuffed in to compete with Canon)... if they ask people who have already invested in dSLR systems, they will most likely find Canon and Nikon users who are happy to perpetuate both the myth that they are inherently better, and the truth that they have more extensive systems. They are going to be more impressed by the overwhelming ubiquity of Canon and Nikon than by a couple of European awards.

My point? Of course Canon and Nikon would be perfectly willing to use dirty tricks. The sad truth is they don't need to; it's Pentax who has to make the effort to overcome the odds which are against them. As you said...
QuoteQuote:
Unfortunately, Pentax largely relied upon the cameras to sell themselves and on current users to bring in new customers.
And this is true. Current users alone will not evangelise enough new customers, and the cameras will not continue to sell themselves in a market where marketing and image are so important, and where cameras are just like computers, mobile phones and every other electronic gadget (i.e. people wanting the newest product with the latest specs). Pentax need to make more of an effort, and unfortunately (or fortunately if like me you want to see the company producing even better products) that does mean new bodies to compete on specs, not only on being affordable.

It also means coming up with more lenses... and this is where the point about RiceHigh being overly concerned with unimportant things is very true. The main problem now, and it is a problem not only in the minds of reviewers or Canikon users, but for current Pentax users, is still a relative lack of glass, especially when third-party solutions disappear as Sigma are dumping long fast lenses for Pentax, Tamron can't be bothered releasing several of their better lenses in K-mount, and no Tokinas are available. This is a real problem for many people and it's also putting people off the system more than RiceHigh ever could. IMO it's not disloyal, nor pixel-peeping or measurebating, to say that the system is lacking and that Pentax needs to either do something about it or at least look like it's doing something about it, and prove beyond doubt that the new Hoya-Pentax is still serious about its SLR system.

Personally I wish that RiceHigh and others were more concerned with larger issues like this and less with minor complaints about metering or jpeg processing... and also wish that those who are 100% happy with the system as-is could accept that others have valid reasons for not feeling the same...

Last edited by ZaphodB; 09-10-2007 at 11:21 AM.
09-10-2007, 08:46 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by B051LjKo Quote
Who cares...
Apparently you care enough to criticise the guy instead of ignoring him
09-10-2007, 08:52 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by B051LjKo Quote
Who cares...
Because he uses his purported "ownership" of The K100D and lenses as justification for continuing to plague us with himself.
09-10-2007, 09:08 AM   #59
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The expensive glass that everyone longs for has always been hard to come by in Pentax mount. Or rather, it was hard to find the PENTAX versions. Sigmas, Tamrons, and Tokinas were much easier to obtain. And, since the Pentax lenses were generally more expensive than their Nikon or Canon equivalents, the third party manufacturers filled a definite need. I see one of Pentax's biggest problems being the lack of support from third party vendors.
09-10-2007, 09:41 AM   #60
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I generally don't reply to these threads because they seem overly sensationalistic. However, to answer the basic question; yes, people will still buy the Pentax's.

The price that you pay for a K10D now - or even a K100D - offers some of the best features at those price-points. There are some who will ignore these cameras only because they're not Canon or Nikon, and others will pass them over because they're not under 6 months old. However, some will buy a camera solely based on how it feels and others will weigh the cost vs. features....different strokes for different folks.

As for the point of image quality which you've brought up in later replies, I've never heard any complaints about the technical quality of my images with the K10D or even my *ist DS2 when I had that (framing or my own blunders might be a different matter ). And it would be the same if I was shooting with a D200 or a 30D as well, simply because I have a certain standard I expect of my work and any of these cameras (including the K10D) is capable of attaining those sandards.

As for the lack of an announcement; yeah, it would be nice to see something on the horizen, but it's not the end of the world. Most people who've asked me about camera gear don't have the slightest clue about these announcements and the vast majority don't follow photography news the way we do.
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