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10-06-2010, 02:01 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spongefingers Quote
Nice yellow tones on the rose - Processed from RAW, I presume.

Who else other than me thinks that he K10D really blows out yellows with in-camera JPEGs? Shooting yellow flowers in RAW is mandatory, I think.
Thanks for commenting on the pic Spongfingers , but that pic is JPEG straight out of the camera . One of my friends kept insisting on that his P&S could give out excelent shots as DSLRs, and I wanted to give him a second thought, so I toll him to use his P&S take picture of the same flower with me which with K10D and the kit lens . Now he is the proud owner of that K10D .

Later I used PS to clone out some bright spots in the black background, other than that, nothing else of the pic was disturbed .

10-06-2010, 02:20 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamesD Quote
I'm speechless. I just arrived home from work and find nearly two dozen answers to my original post. Your answers are thoughtful, encouraging and challenging.

You've given me so much to think about. One thing that immediately occurs to me is the need to learn a bit more of the science behind what is actually going on in the picture-taking process as well as the philosophy behind the Pentax vision.

I'm going to begin by checking out those books suggested, taking my camera off of fine JPEG and putting it on RAW and spending more time in looking at my images after the fact.

I'm not giving up although I probably gave that impression. Let's call it my unfortunate despondency syndrome. If I had any notion of giving up I would never have come back here and asked for your input.

I can't believe you all would take time and effort to help out someone. In point of fact... right now I'm feeling very encouraged. I'm not about to bound out of here and buy new lenses. I should be able, with some work, to make big improvements in my images "if" I follow the advice given.

So thank you all. I'll be back.
James, K10D is a beautiful machine, once you know it thoroughly, you will love it .
10-06-2010, 03:22 AM   #33
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I have made the same discovery about the Panasonic Lumix. I bought one (middle to upper range) for the wife for her birthday. I could not believe the unbelievable quality of the stills and video.A lot of pros carry a Lumix as an emergency backup. It left both my K10d and Fuji S5pro for dead. Shame they do not have one in super wide angle and with the fast lenses needed for astro work. Once again, for maximum quality, shoot RAW. Looking forward to trying the K5.
10-06-2010, 03:37 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamesD Quote

I'm going to begin by checking out those books suggested, taking my camera off of fine JPEG and putting it on RAW and spending more time in looking at my images after the fact.
don't know if this was mentioned already, but be prepared for RAW to take up A LOT more memory (i.e. you'll need a bigger SD card)...i was NOT prepared for that when i first took photos in RAW.

Good luck! DSLRs are lots of work and lots of fun and I do hope you learn to love yours

10-06-2010, 07:53 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamesD Quote
... I'm going to begin by checking out those books suggested, taking my camera off of fine JPEG and putting it on RAW and spending more time in looking at my images after the fact...
Just be aware that IF you switch to RAW you WILL have to spend some time postprocessing each image. You are not going to like what the RAW images look like straight out of the camera. If you aren't prepared or interested in getting up close and personal with Silkipix, Photoshop, Elements or something similar, RAW is not for you. You might want to start small and try some of the other changes suggested above. Changing your camera picture setting to Vibrant will change how the JPGs look, as will some basic adjustments to exposure.

I'd suggest starting with small cahnges and working up to something you like rather than changing everything at once and wondering what worked well and what might not be helping.
10-06-2010, 08:08 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by abmj Quote
Just be aware that IF you switch to RAW you WILL have to spend some time postprocessing each image. You are not going to like what the RAW images look like straight out of the camera. If you aren't prepared or interested in getting up close and personal with Silkipix, Photoshop, Elements or something similar, RAW is not for you. You might want to start small and try some of the other changes suggested above. Changing your camera picture setting to Vibrant will change how the JPGs look, as will some basic adjustments to exposure.

I'd suggest starting with small cahnges and working up to something you like rather than changing everything at once and wondering what worked well and what might not be helping.
This is actually a very good suggestion. Small steps... I'll start with these as suggested. I'll try a few RAW (you can count on one hand the number of RAW images I've made since I've owned the camera... several years now) and the rest I'll try these setting changes.
10-06-2010, 08:48 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamesD Quote
This is actually a very good suggestion. Small steps... I'll start with these as suggested. I'll try a few RAW (you can count on one hand the number of RAW images I've made since I've owned the camera... several years now) and the rest I'll try these setting changes.
You have received many good 'start-up" suggestions. May I also offer one that will help you move quickly up the learning curve?

Get a copy of...

Amazon.com: Vision & Voice: Refining Your Vision in Adobe Photoshop Lightroom (Voices That Matter) (9780321670090): David duChemin: Books

Once you have the book in hand, download the current trial version of Lightroom 3. The book will show you how to use LR3's "Develop" module. Work though some of the exercises outlined by the author and you will soon be turning RAW files into images that will "WOW!" your friends.

Cheers...
10-06-2010, 10:55 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamesD Quote
This is actually a very good suggestion. Small steps... I'll start with these as suggested. I'll try a few RAW (you can count on one hand the number of RAW images I've made since I've owned the camera... several years now) and the rest I'll try these setting changes.
Just hit the "RAW+" button. You get a jpeg and if it's not what you were looking for, then you've got the RAW to play with. You'll then have a base to work from and compare to as well. It'll only cost you a bigger memory card or less pictures on your current card.

10-06-2010, 12:56 PM   #39
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But I do think it's worth the effort.
RAW not only opens up a lot more possibilities, it provides you with a new insight on how to expose your shots in camera to get the result you really want.
10-06-2010, 12:59 PM   #40
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I agree, when I shoot digital I only shoot raw, but to somebody who is not sure if they want to mess with post-processing, having both might not be a bad way to see the difference and learn to love RAW.
10-06-2010, 02:57 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
I agree, when I shoot digital I only shoot raw, but to somebody who is not sure if they want to mess with post-processing, having both might not be a bad way to see the difference and learn to love RAW.
If one is not willing to jump in the deep end, then one needs to sit beside the pool and just enjoy the sun...it's feet-first right into the deep end or nothing for me.

There is NOTHING difficult to dealing with RAW over JPG, in fact I find it the complete opposite...a poor JPG shot can very often not be saved in post, whereas a less than stellar RAW shot can very often be made at least acceptable in post. It's a learning process, which I know ya know... But sometimes we forget the sooner we help someone get the training wheels off the sooner and better a rider they will become.

Once a person has a grip on exposure, lighting and composition then I say why not shoot JPG when you are in snap shot mode or even somewhere that you want results right now...I could see being on vacation and getting a few shots then wanting to share them with friends/family at the nearest photo printer...JPG solves this nicely.

But that is the beauty of DSLR's today...they let everyone shoot how it makes them happy. So JPG away, chimp away (hey everyone does it!! hehehehe) just so long as you end up with shots you like. The point is to have fun. For me that fun is in the learning of what everyone says is too hard...never found it to be true, it's very rarely as hard as people say.

And trust me I am totally graphic phobic!! Photoshop still (and ALWAYS WILL) scares the heck outta me ...but I use it as well as LR...to be candid I hardly ever use PS anymore but it's nice to know it's there.
10-06-2010, 03:01 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by planedriver Quote
I was thinking about how to respond to your question and came to the conclusion that the best answer would be to post some pictures..all taken with the k200d (same sensor as your k10d) all shot in RAW and developed in the Sylkipix Pentax software, color setting VIVID. (Lens used DA16-45, DA12-24 with polarizer-some contrast/saturation added in the post process..and I have to tell you I don't really like computers and have no idea how to use "complicated softwares")...I don't spend too much time with the post processing.

I have to tell you that although I have a K-x, plan to buy the K5, this k200d with this sensor will never be replaced in my camera bag.


Andras
Andras, your shots are OUTSTANDING! Beautiful work!
10-07-2010, 03:53 AM   #43
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Even with the current best p&s (and I have and still use) I have never seen an ooc jpeg that too my eye is "perfect".

I will still apply curve, saturation, etc etc adjustments to bring out the best.

Having used and seen results from Canon 40/50/7D's the K10D can produce enviable results - especially at 100iso, hence why it's still my main dslr.

The images also have a certain "look & feel" (can't quite put my finger on it) that I just can't get from other dslr even from the current Pentax models.

Hence why a lot of users have "stuck" with the K10D AND to be quite honest it also has never failed to nail focus in some of the most demanding situations.
10-07-2010, 05:40 AM   #44
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I think you can alot of benefits from shooting raw in very little time:
- A preset can be applied during import that will set your preferred clarity, vibrance, contrast, etc.
- Other settings you might not want handled through a preset (WB, black level, etc) can be applied to one shot and then copied to all other shots taken in the same conditions.

After 5 minutes you can have good results (compared to jpg) for a day's worth of shooting. Of course, spending more time after this going shot by shot to fine tune exposure, recovery and more will lead to further approvements.

My point is, I don't think time is a good reason to avoid raw, because you can get better results than jpg without spending hardly any time.

Last edited by JamieP; 10-07-2010 at 05:41 AM. Reason: typos...
10-07-2010, 07:37 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamieP Quote
I think you can alot of benefits from shooting raw in very little time:
- A preset can be applied during import that will set your preferred clarity, vibrance, contrast, etc.
- Other settings you might not want handled through a preset (WB, black level, etc) can be applied to one shot and then copied to all other shots taken in the same conditions.

After 5 minutes you can have good results (compared to jpg) for a day's worth of shooting. Of course, spending more time after this going shot by shot to fine tune exposure, recovery and more will lead to further approvements.

My point is, I don't think time is a good reason to avoid raw, because you can get better results than jpg without spending hardly any time.
I agree. My typical RAW workflow using ufraw is is:
Set ufraw to "Camera WB".
Set ufraw to automatic exposure

If I don't like the preview, I tweak the exposure slider
If I still don't like the preview, I tweak the white balance
If I'm shooting at a high ISO, or bumping up a significantly underexposed shot, I tweak the noise reduction slider

I rarely tweak any other parameters for most of my shots.

Also, some RAW converters allow you to do a fast preview for tweaking settings, and just save the settings, doing the actual RAW conversion later. This saves a LOT of time in my opinion as you go through a set of shots. (In ufraw, this is the "ID Only" setting in the file settings.) I then batch-convert the pictures afterwards while I go do something else.

James, looking at your gallery, I think a lot of your forest shots threw off the camera's AWB. Shooting in RAW and tweaking white balance might improve a LOT of those shots. (Proper white balance in a forest on a cloudy day can get really frustrating...)
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