Shutter Blur: K7/K5?

skyoftexas · 10-08-2010, 10:15 PM

Okay, I just got a whiff of this, which is probably old news, but in that I'm planning to upgrade to the K5 from the K20D, it kind of scares me. Apparently, the argument is that the free floating sensor of the K7, and presumably, the K5 creates blur at certain shutter speeds. Tell me it isn't so.

Michaael

Jasvox · 10-08-2010, 10:21 PM

When the K-5 is released and tested (presumably by Falk Lumo), we will know. Until then, no way to test one and answer your question.

Jason

rawr · 10-08-2010, 10:37 PM

It ain't an automatic consequence of having a free-floating sensor. After all, the K20D has one of those too. It comes with having sensor-shift shake reduction.

With the K-7, and K-x, the 'blur issue' was only claimed to occur within a narrow range of shutter and focal length combinations. Let's wait and see if anyone claims this is a problem with the K-5.

kittykat46 · 10-08-2010, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by skyoftexas

Okay, I just got a whiff of this, which is probably old news, but in that I'm planning to upgrade to the K5 from the K20D, it kind of scares me. Apparently, the argument is that the free floating sensor of the K7, and presumably, the K5 creates blur at certain shutter speeds. Tell me it isn't so.

Michaael

Nobody will really know until the K-5 is out and tested.
HOWEVER, two things I can say for sure.
One, There is no evidence that this is a consequence of a free floating sensor design, or unsolvable in a free sensor design.

Two, "presumably, the K-5" is a bit far-fetched.
If the problem was unknown or underestimated during the design stage of the K-7, that is one issue. Once the problem is known, and engineering resources are put to it, such little vibrations are not rocket science to solve.

The key word is "known problem" or "foreseen potential problem".

In the industry I work in, potential vibrations of higher frequency and far more powerful are routinely solved by engineers at the design stage.

telfish · 10-09-2010, 04:37 AM

Never had the issue with my K7.

NightPorter · 10-09-2010, 05:34 AM

Never had this issue with my K7 too!

creampuff · 10-09-2010, 05:47 AM

Never had this issue with my K7 too!

JeffJS · 10-09-2010, 09:37 AM

What issue? You mean all this time I've been blaming the environment for my crappy macros and instead it's been the Camera?

Class A · 10-09-2010, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by rawr

It comes with having sensor-shift shake reduction.

No. The K20D uses the same principle and doesn't have the issue to the same extent. There is some interaction between shutter-induced vibrations and shake reduction but without the vibration there wouldn't be a problem.

Apparently the K-7 shutter wasn't optimally damped. From Photokina images of the K-5 innards it seems that this has been addressed.

It was a very small blur at a narrow range of shutter speeds anyhow. Normally other factors will cause greater blur. Other cameras probably have it too to some extent, but rarely does it get examined as thoroughly as Falk and his team did (The Olympus PEN E-P1 had the same issue and received a new firmware). Still, it reduced (not eliminated) the chances of getting a tack sharp images at certain shutter speeds so it would be great if the K-5 cured this.

FullertonImages · 10-09-2010, 07:48 PM

At what shutter speeds and focal lengths does the K-7 typically blur?

kittykat46 · 10-09-2010, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by FullertonImages

At what shutter speeds and focal lengths does the K-7 typically blur?

I've not been able to deliberately reproduce it in my photos, so I can't say from personal experience.

Its reportedly from 1/80 - 1/150 secs, with the peak at 1/100 secs.

brecklundin · 10-09-2010, 09:20 PM

just give the OP the damned link fer gawds sakes:

Falk Lumo: LumoLabs: Shutter-induced blur with an SLR camera

Now you can read it, see where the issue is and go from there. but as others mention we won't know until, well, we know. Depends on how much time Falk and those he works with have to devote to the testing and verification of their results and testing methods.

secateurs · 10-17-2010, 01:21 AM

Any news on shutter-induced blur from our new k-5 owners?

It may be at the same shutter speeds as the K-7, but it could be at any shutter speed.

rawr · 10-17-2010, 01:38 AM

I'm not seeing any issues here, where there are a few shots in the supposed 'danger zone' for blur:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118504-k-5-da-35mm...ny-photos.html

or in any of the other K-5 shots showing up around here and on the web.

kittykat46 · 10-17-2010, 03:59 AM - **1 Like**

Relax........I had VERY few such issues with the K-7 , though some may have more.
My only worry was if the Pentax engineers had totally overlooked the matter in the K-5 design.
If they put it on any sort of FMEA checklist, I'm pretty sure the problem's killed and gone. Real engineers who know about vibration mitigation will understand what I'm talking about.

There are a few heated threads in the "Other" well known Pentax forum, pseudo engineers asserting its an inherent and unavoidable problem with the floating sensor SR design - and they are way off mark.

10-08-2010, 10:15 PM	#1
skyoftexas Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States Posts: 156	Shutter Blur: K7/K5? Okay, I just got a whiff of this, which is probably old news, but in that I'm planning to upgrade to the K5 from the K20D, it kind of scares me. Apparently, the argument is that the free floating sensor of the K7, and presumably, the K5 creates blur at certain shutter speeds. Tell me it isn't so. Michaael

10-09-2010, 12:46 PM	#9
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by rawr It comes with having sensor-shift shake reduction. No. The K20D uses the same principle and doesn't have the issue to the same extent. There is some interaction between shutter-induced vibrations and shake reduction but without the vibration there wouldn't be a problem. Apparently the K-7 shutter wasn't optimally damped. From Photokina images of the K-5 innards it seems that this has been addressed. It was a very small blur at a narrow range of shutter speeds anyhow. Normally other factors will cause greater blur. Other cameras probably have it too to some extent, but rarely does it get examined as thoroughly as Falk and his team did (The Olympus PEN E-P1 had the same issue and received a new firmware). Still, it reduced (not eliminated) the chances of getting a tack sharp images at certain shutter speeds so it would be great if the K-5 cured this. Last edited by Class A; 10-09-2010 at 12:51 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
LumoLabs: Shutter induced blur with the Pentax K-7 camera	falconeye	Pentax News and Rumors	154	02-14-2012 03:55 PM
Macro Wings a Blur	eaglem	Post Your Photos!	1	08-17-2010 01:12 AM
Blur issues at fast shutter speeds	Filson	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	2	08-10-2010 07:18 PM
Shutter induced blur with the Pentax K-7 camera	Marignac	Pentax DSLR Discussion	9	07-23-2010 11:07 AM
Blur possible at 1/3000th?	boom	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	9	05-05-2009 02:18 PM

10-08-2010, 10:21 PM	#2
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	When the K-5 is released and tested (presumably by Falk Lumo), we will know. Until then, no way to test one and answer your question. Jason

10-08-2010, 10:37 PM	#3
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	It ain't an automatic consequence of having a free-floating sensor. After all, the K20D has one of those too. It comes with having sensor-shift shake reduction. With the K-7, and K-x, the 'blur issue' was only claimed to occur within a narrow range of shutter and focal length combinations. Let's wait and see if anyone claims this is a problem with the K-5.

10-08-2010, 11:57 PM	#4
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by skyoftexas Okay, I just got a whiff of this, which is probably old news, but in that I'm planning to upgrade to the K5 from the K20D, it kind of scares me. Apparently, the argument is that the free floating sensor of the K7, and presumably, the K5 creates blur at certain shutter speeds. Tell me it isn't so. Michaael Nobody will really know until the K-5 is out and tested. HOWEVER, two things I can say for sure. One, There is no evidence that this is a consequence of a free floating sensor design, or unsolvable in a free sensor design. Two, "presumably, the K-5" is a bit far-fetched. If the problem was unknown or underestimated during the design stage of the K-7, that is one issue. Once the problem is known, and engineering resources are put to it, such little vibrations are not rocket science to solve. The key word is "known problem" or "foreseen potential problem". In the industry I work in, potential vibrations of higher frequency and far more powerful are routinely solved by engineers at the design stage.

10-09-2010, 04:37 AM	#5
telfish Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY Posts: 407	Never had the issue with my K7.

10-09-2010, 05:34 AM	#6
NightPorter Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hong Kong Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 83	Never had this issue with my K7 too!

10-09-2010, 05:47 AM	#7
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Never had this issue with my K7 too!

10-09-2010, 09:37 AM	#8
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	What issue? You mean all this time I've been blaming the environment for my crappy macros and instead it's been the Camera?

10-09-2010, 07:48 PM	#10
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	At what shutter speeds and focal lengths does the K-7 typically blur?

10-09-2010, 08:29 PM	#11
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by FullertonImages At what shutter speeds and focal lengths does the K-7 typically blur? I've not been able to deliberately reproduce it in my photos, so I can't say from personal experience. Its reportedly from 1/80 - 1/150 secs, with the peak at 1/100 secs.

10-09-2010, 09:20 PM	#12
brecklundin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,674	just give the OP the damned link fer gawds sakes: Falk Lumo: LumoLabs: Shutter-induced blur with an SLR camera Now you can read it, see where the issue is and go from there. but as others mention we won't know until, well, we know. Depends on how much time Falk and those he works with have to devote to the testing and verification of their results and testing methods.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-17-2010, 01:21 AM	#13
secateurs Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Adelaide, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 250	Any news on shutter-induced blur from our new k-5 owners? It may be at the same shutter speeds as the K-7, but it could be at any shutter speed.

10-17-2010, 01:38 AM	#14
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	I'm not seeing any issues here, where there are a few shots in the supposed 'danger zone' for blur: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118504-k-5-da-35mm...ny-photos.html or in any of the other K-5 shots showing up around here and on the web.

10-17-2010, 03:59 AM - 1 Like	#15
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Relax........I had VERY few such issues with the K-7 , though some may have more. My only worry was if the Pentax engineers had totally overlooked the matter in the K-5 design. If they put it on any sort of FMEA checklist, I'm pretty sure the problem's killed and gone. Real engineers who know about vibration mitigation will understand what I'm talking about. There are a few heated threads in the "Other" well known Pentax forum, pseudo engineers asserting its an inherent and unavoidable problem with the floating sensor SR design - and they are way off mark.